Another Spark Plug debate

[SternWake]

Lots of new plugs out there with all the bells and whistle marketing and features claiming improved MPG and power.

32K miles ago I was less resistant to  and less contemptuous of marketing than I am Now, and I was also trying to pass an initial California SmoG test with the best numbers possible, and I unnecessarily replaced some low mileage Champion #RN12YC OE plugs with, Sigh, facepalm, wait for it,  Bosch +2 platinums.


I only have 32k miles on them but I am feeling it is time for a tune up.

I pulled plug number 8 to see its condition.  Generally I don't pull plugs unless I have new ones to install, but they are all very simple to reach on my engine, and I've done worse things.

The Bosch plugs get no love on Automotive forums, especially in older 'Merican vehicles, but honestly these have worked well since install, and they appear to not really have worn:

Honestly, it looks to me as if these plugs have a lot more life left in them, but I will replace them anyway.

I recall arguments why all engines should always use the same plugs they left the factory with, but forget the real reasons why this is vehemently  argued by the old timers.

I am liking the design of some of the newer plugs such as  Denso TT, Even though I obviously do not require a high mileage long lasting iridium plug as they are easy to reach and replace on my engine( LA318). I of course would enjoy more pep and MPG, but have a hard time believing any new plug would be measurably different than any other brand of new plug in this application.  I will be replacing wires and cap and rotor too.

Looks like a fair amount of carbon Though.  I am running some Gumout Regane with PEA through my fuel now, but perhaps a water decarbonization would be more effective.  Heck,  A good long highway drive would likely do something as most of my trips are short.  

Got a favorite plug/most hated plug, thoughts and comments on the bell and whistle department of the 7 and 8$ iridium plugs?

Comments, rants or raves, insults? let em fly......
Here is rock Auto's line up of available plugs for my engine:

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1989,b250,5.2l+318cid+v8,1073506,ignition,spark+plug,7212

 

[GotSmart]

Since I will be replacing my 2 year old plugs soon, and have basically the same set up, I will be following this thread.  Plugs are cheap enough to change out.

 

[ccbreder]

Any 'major brand" would be fine. The heat range of your choice is the most important. example, the above plugs seem to be slightly on the cold side for how you drive.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Any 'major brand" would be fine. The heat range of your choice is the most important. example, the above plugs seem to be slightly on the cold side for how you drive.

Yes.  The factory recommendation for a plug is based on a newish engine, little or no mechanical wear, driven under average conditions.  As those factors change, you should be prepared to go up or down one heat range as needed.

 

[Gary68]

did the full tune up on the truck not long ago and the 10 year old ac delco plugs where still looking good,if your not running lean your plugs should last for a long long time

how many miles on your van?from the look of your plugs might be time for some valve guide seals or maybe rings

 

[SternWake]

how many miles on your van?from the look of your plugs might be time for some valve guide seals or maybe rings

213K, and 41K since rebuild.

It does not use burn much oil at all. 
 I should replace the valve cover gaskets though as they seep occassionally

 

[29chico]

Without looking at the base of the ceramic that surrounds the center electrode I would not opine on the need to change the heat range of your current plugs.  I do agree that the plug in the pic looks like it is fine shape. 
I have not had great results with the techy Bosch plugs, the conventional ones have been fine.

FWIW on the iridium plugs:  when I went from  NGK V-power plugs in my '85 Tercel 4wd wagon (3ac engine & 6  speed manual trans) CarV conversion to  one step colder NGK iridium plugs I did get just over 1mpg overall improvement in fuel economy.  The improvement that surprised me was that the little beast became a tractor!  It became much harder to stall off the line and would putter around a parking lot at 400 rpm w/o my foot on the gas w/o missing a beat.  Impressive.

Yes, I like NGK products, their plugs and oxygen sensors are top notch.  For some reason their oxy sensors are sold under the NTK brand.

 

[SternWake]

"I of course would enjoy more pep and MPG, but have a hard time believing any new plug would be measurably different than any other brand of new plug in this application."

One technique used by racers to get the last fraction of performance out of a spark plug is to "index" the plug so that the grounding electrode doesn't shroud the spark from the best choice for flame travel in the combustion chamber. Shims are used to adjust the orientation.
https://www.google.com/webhp?ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=index+spark+plugs

Guy

I've heard of the indexing before, as well as the side gapping for unquenched flame propagation as being effective in performance engines, which the 318 most certainly is not.

I was having some sagging during acceleration, worse when cold, and in the past this has always been spark plug wires.

This time last year I had to get another smogtest and returned the timing to spec and plugged the vaccuum line into my EGR valve and made sure it was moving as designed.  Usually after passing I would return timing to ~13 to 16BTDC and plug the vacccum line to the EGR, but this time just left it.

The other day when pulling the plug I bumped the timing ~ 3 degrees, plugged the vaccuum, and inspected and rerouted some SP wires which were trying to touch each other or something grounded, and the sagging, after an ECM reset, is gone.

The necessity of a tune up at this point is questionable. I have other places needing my meager finances.

 

[highdesertranger]

I like plugs that are recommended by the factory. changing the heat range up or down one level is ok. if you have to go up one in heat range you have other problems. while I don't recommend after market ignition parts that promise the world, I find them unreliable. the one thing I do recommend is high performance spark plug wires. they are a world better than the el cheapo wires you get at the parts store. MSD, NGK, and Accel are all top choices. highdesertranger

 

[ccbreder]

I agree good wires make a difference, as higher resistance or shorting, will cause cascading ignition problems. With today's electronic ignition, older plugs still work well. With today's engines, i see no need for indexing. In days of point-breaker coil, plugs were the second most important item for gasoline mileage. The first was and still remains wheel alignment.

 

[SternWake]

From 2001 to 2007 I went through 5 sets of wires.  Belden, Accel, borg warner, others I can't remember.


I've had the same set of 35$ Taylor 8mm since 2007. I think vans, with the reflective engine cover concentrating infrared heat on the area of the wires, along with the airflow restrictions in this area, simply cooks the wires.

I am really on the fence whether I even need to replace all these components. The saggin when accellerating is gone, and the engine is running smooth.  MPGs are Shit, but one gets 0MPG sitting in traffic lights, and traffic lights try their darndest to drive me insane.

 I'd rather re plumb my tranmission cooler lines and external filter and exchange some ATF+4 when doing so.

I just had some planned work fall through, or at least be delayed, so the battles I choose must be chosen wiser.

 

[GotSmart]

It has been 2 1/2 years since I put in plugs and wires.  This thread got me all excited, and trdy to buy the NASCAR 8.5 wires and top of the line plugs.  

Today I pulled and inspected the wires and plugs.  All of them.

Here are the worst looking plugs out of all 8.

I think I will just save my money, unless someone can convince me I can gain 1 MPG by changing things.  That would pay for itself in a couple months.

 

[ArtW]

I'm with HDR on this, although I have seen the Bosch plugs run like crap right out of the box
I like the factory recommended plugs and wires, for the vehicle in question (one exception is the Chevy Lumina sedan, where I replace the platinum plugs with regular plugs of the same specs, the AC Delco R44LTSM6 IIRC) due to same performance for less cost

 

[SternWake]

Well I left those plugs in for alomst another year.  Recently all ignition components got replaced, and I took some macro photos of the ugliest bits to help convince myself it was absolutely necessary.

 

[SternWake]

The new Airtex/wells distributor cap has a brass center contact, and copper outer contacts. Previus Mopar cap had all brass. They sell caps with aluminum contacts. Aviod those.

Spark plug wire number 2 had twice the resistance as its replacement, and the slightest movement of the wire caused the resistance to swing around wildly. The other wires were 0.5K Ohm more resistance and 2 of them were within 0.05 k ohm.

I replaced the plugs with NGK G power.

There was a lot of crap built up around spark plugs. i used a bamboo skewer to loosen them and a shopvac with precision tool to suck out the crap. After plug removal there was still obvious crap Which i also sucked out.


I replaced the wires with taylor hi energy 8mm. Same as I took out. These are the only wires I have employed which made it past the 2.5 year mark so I decided to use them again.

I think the parabolic shape of the reflective engine cover, bakes the wires at a faster clip than in other vehicles.

When the wires are failing, there is kind of a stumble on slow accelleration which dissappears as I step harder on it. This had become more evident when cold recently, and spark plug wire # 2 was able to shock me at times.

It Idles and runs much smoother, but strangely cranks for a smidge longer before catching. I'll reset computer, see if that returns it to catching in a half second instead of 3/4 second.

Other things accomplished recently are new steel transmission cooler lines, new external Tx filter, new coolant, no oil and filter.

 

[highdesertranger]

spark plug and cap porn. I love it. highdesertranger

 

[MrNoodly]

I recall arguments why all engines should always use the same plugs they left the factory with, but forget the real reasons why this is vehemently  argued by the old timers.

I don't know about other people's reasons, but I figure the engineers who designed my vehicles know more about this stuff than I or random people on forums do.
Meanwhile, maybe the problem is the plug wires you keep needing to replace, not the plugs.

 

[djkeev]

I worked for Mercedes Benz during the 1970's and 1980's.

There was zero love for Bosch plugs even back then!

We stocked a mountain of NGK's and replaced the crap Bosch plugs with them on a regular basis.

I will not even consider a Bosch plug in my vintage VW's....... just saying.......

Dave

 

[SternWake]

Well the Bosch plugs got the expected MPGs, power, and passed  6 different CA emissions tests.

Am Using NGK G power plugs now. Rock Auto had them for $1.64 a plug or something.  Have a month to pass another Smog test, but will be putting some highway mileage on it soon, and one of my best smog test results was after driving from Florida to California in 3 days.



In my experience, this Van eats SP wires. 

 The 35$ Taylors 8mm wires lasting 10 years, when no other brand lasted more than 2.5, in my opinion, a testament to their quality, and I had no issue buying the same product again even at 39$.

 

[MrNoodly]

I think vans, with the reflective engine cover concentrating infrared heat on the area of the wires, along with the airflow restrictions in this area, simply cooks the wires.

My Express has 220K on the clock and, I suspect, the same plug wires it had rolling off the assembly line. If not, then for at least the past 100k since I've owned it. I haven't changed the plugs either, because it's running fine.