An Anti-Stealth Idea for the Van

[Pikachu711]

Pikachu<br /><br />Without going into detail, I can see impersonating a security guard as a source of heartaches when discovered. And yes, even if you make no verbal claim, I think you're still doing an impersonation. And you're trespassing.

<br /><br />You do raise a valid point. But I seriously doubt that this rises to the same level as "impersonating a police officer." As a former security guard, there are quite a few of them out there any given time. Being a security guard is nothing more than private citizen wearing a uniform.<br /><br />Granted there is a slight chance of a REAL security guard knocking your door. That's where some research on your part is required. You need to check the area beforehand to find out if there is actually a security guard on patrol. Due diligence on your part.

 

[Seraphim]

No, it's not on the same level. There is no 'impersonating a security guard' law in Ohio, that I'm aware of.&nbsp;But if you get discovered by a LEO, getting found in a 'security uniform' makes it obvious you're living on the property of businesses on a full time basis, and you're more likely to be charged with trespassing than if you appeared to have just stopped over on a one-time basis because you were tired, or were from out of town and needed a spot to crash for one night. The uniform makes it obvious you are attempting to be deceptive, and deception raises a LEOs suspicions and - oft times - hackles.<br /><br />Just my POV<br /><br />

 

[Pikachu711]

No, it's not on the same level. But if you get discovered by a LEO, getting found in a 'security uniform' makes it obvious you're living on the property of businesses on a full time basis, and you're more likely to be charged with trespassing than if you appeared to have just stopped over on a one-time basis because you were tired, or were from out of town and needed a spot to crash for one night. The uniform makes it obvious you are attempting to be deceptive, and deception raises a LEOs suspicions and - oft times - hackles.<br /><br />Just my PO<br />

<br /><br />I'm was assuming that anyone using this method was NOT using the same location too often. Even with the security uniform in plain sight, noone should spend too much time in any one location. As we know, we should be changing locations often enough to NOT&nbsp;appear like we are trespassers. This method should only be used on a limited basis.<br /><br />We can add this "trick" to our list of methods&nbsp;we use to appear like we "belong" at any given location.<br /><br />Seraphim, you are correct about using this method too often. Spending too much time in any one location should never&nbsp;happen.

 

[PYSCHOWard]

I think its always Better to explain what I am, than what i am not.<br />In Brad's case, just the bike on the rack should be sufficient.

 

[Cubey]

Stealth boils down, in my opinion, to looking like you aren't a poor drifter. Having a vehicle that is pleasing to the eyes is a big help. <br /> <br /> People love the look of my old 1978 Dodge Class B. It looks so nice for a 78. Old Class C's don't look as good. They tend to look more antiqued. <br /> <br /> Also, a motorhome looks better for someone to live in vs a van. If you have well kept motorhome, it's assumed you have more money than someone living in a van. A high top conversion van with a good paint job is pretty stealthy since they are considered normal passenger vehicles, not RVs. Unless you hang a window AC out of it.. then you're moving into "poor person in a van" territory.<br /><br />Yes, I realize which board this is under... but something like my Class B, people view it primary as a van and secondary as a motorhome since it's not a behemoth with an extra tall roof (like many Class B's) or a huge box on the back (like Class Cs). <br /><br />I've attached a pic of my van (before I bought it) parallel parked next to a street. It gives you some idea of how it looks out in the wild.

 

[magentawave]

Cubey - How much headroom do you have in your Class B?

 

[Cubey]

It varies where you are in the van. I can fully stand up when I step in from the side. Also I can fully stand up around the stove and sink. You have to bend over to get into the bathroom (toilet, sink, shower) and the bed, and of course to get to the front seats. I'm about 5' 10".<br /><br />I tried camping in a non-high top Ford E150 conversion van I had a couple times and it was WAY too confining. I had to move around on my hands and knees. Heck no!<br /><br />Earlier today I saw a 1996 Dodge Xplorer on ebay for under $4000 (buy it now price!) that didn't have an extreme high top. Mine DOES have a SLIGHT high top I have noticed recently but it's not so extreme as most so it's not noticeable to those looking at it.

 

[magentawave]

Thats nice because it doesn't look like you would have that much headroom. I couldn't find the one on eBay you mentioned. Does yours have a 440? What is your average MPG?

 

[Cubey]

Thats nice because it doesn't look like you would have that much headroom. I couldn't find the one on eBay you mentioned. Does yours have a 440? What is your average MPG?

<br /><br />It has a dropped floor in part of it where nothing is needed on the van (would normally be open air space) which permits the headroom.<br /><br />It has a 360. I haven't driven it enough to know what the MPG is yet. I drove it twice before I bought it. I drove it home after I bought it. I drove it 1/4 mile down the road. Had to get it towed to town due to the lousy mechanic who tore into the rear end and didn't finish ANYTHING after 3 months. I drove it from the shop to Sears to get the tires, then drove it home. So that's the extent of how much I have driven it since I got it.<br /><br />I am hoping for at least 10mpg hwy since I don't drive with a lead foot too much in a big vehicle. I am debating getting one of these to help me out with driving more efficiently:<br />http://www.jcwhitney.com/make-waves-instrument-miles-per-gallon-gauge/p2008961.jcwx<br /><br />Mine lacks the air pump and later emissions things. The oldest van I can go by is the 1984 Dodge B350 "wagon" which is rated 10 (11 originally) but they have the air pump and such. <br /><br />I am tempted to get a high flow air filter as well to help with mpg some. Even if it only half by 0.5 mpg... that will add up!<br /><br />Looks like someone bought the van I mentioned for $3600 (BIN price I think):<br />http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodg...790?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&amp;hash=item19d47420e6<br /><br />It had bids and a reserve that wasn't met when I saw it. It lacks a shower, roof AC and generator though like mine has. The van is overall smaller than mine. Looks like you can't even shut the bathroom door for privacy like you can on mine. But it does have a dropped floor.<br /><br />If not for the dang rear end cost on my van which was unplanned and price was bloated due to that lousy local mechanic charging me and then I had to pay $100 towing plus $700 more labor (when I'm not sure I needed the ring gear and pinion he said I needed), I'd have been better off buying a newer van like that one. But oh well, that's how it goes sometimes. My van has a new transmission (already did when I bought it), new tires and a ton of other new parts. So I guess I'm still not so bad off on the deal.

 

[magentawave]

Yes I think appearance is key and Glenn at tosimplify.net did a post once on how a couple security guards were about to knock on his door because he heard one of them saying something like "I wonder if this is one of those homeless people?" and the other guy said "No, this motorhome is too nice for a homeless person." so they moved on and didn't bother knocking.<br /><br />There is a clean used campervan just like yours for sale here but I don't think its large enough for my needs because I need room to carry an expensive mountain bike and an SUP (10') and two to three surfboards. The only way I could do that would be to build a custom lockable box for the top for the boards and a locking box that would fit on the back for the bike.<br /><br />One thing I didn't like about that campervan was that it didn't have an oven and the fridge was very small. I guess if I had to I could live without the oven but do you think its possible to put a larger fridg in there?<br /><br />The guy selling it told me that his has a 360 too and he gets 10 mpg which he said was about 2 mpg better than the 440.<br /><br /><br />

Stealth boils down, in my opinion, to looking like you aren't a poor drifter. Having a vehicle that is pleasing to the eyes is a big help. <br />

 

[Guest]

Just an Idea... but why not start a bike repair business that's legit and "work out of the van" doing tune ups and stuff... make some extra scratch in the process. Just an Idea

 

[Permavan]

I like your idea. I thought of something too but it's kind of raunchy. I actually was thinking to put on graphics that would indicate something like a (toilet) plumber because that's the grossest thing I could think of and I feel like nobody would break in/or think anything for a bunch of toilet tools! Lol. I probably won't but anyway it's an idea.

 

[Doubleone]

@VanTrekker "I might order up a couple of magnets with graphics of bikes on them. The rack will sit on the back with at least one bike locked to it at all times. When I go out of town, I can park it about anywhere, possibly even near a residential area. A bike ride on a nearby trail is a great excuse for an out of county vehicle, too. It's the truth! Does this seem like a reasonable thing to see on a van with a bike on it?"

It could work but only if you deliberately want to look out of place, like someone who needs or demands extra attention from law enforcement...  RAGBRAI has credentials that get checked by officers whenever you go anywhere near the event.  Most every officer in the state will be there.  They have designated routes of travel for support vehicles, charter services, etc.  They only let local traffic in.  If you really want to try it I'd suggest you lean more toward a religious ministry or a bicycle repair shop.  However, there are only about ten bicycle repair shops associated with RAGBRAI, and if an official looks in the back of your van and you don't have any tools or bicycle equipment it will definitely raise alarms... and you'll likely have hours of explaining to do...  They'll be thinking along the lines of Boston Marathon...  You'll be wondering why they are so focused on you...

 

[maki2]

When you create graphics for a van the last thing you want to have for graphics is a business that might have things inside that are tempting to thieves looking to make some quick cash.

What is one of the most common things that get stolen in a city to turn for quick cash? That would be high end bicycles, they get stolen by the thousands in every town and city. Racing support team vans carry a lot of spare parts, lots of tools, helmets, expensive shoes, toe clips and even bicycles inside of them. So you might want to rethink putting a bike on the back and signs indicating it is a racing support team van because you are waving a red flag saying...come on in thieves, I have the exactly kind of stuff you want sitting inside of this van.

If you want to pick something the thieves are not interested in pick a diaper service, flower delivery, some type of bakery, or even fresh produce products. Those businesses don't leave any valuables in a van at night time because all of their products have a time sensitive expiration date and they get taken out every late afternoon and they the van gets filled first thing every morning. That is what works best, a van that a thief knows is not worth breaking into because it will be empty, with nothing of value inside that they can fence.

A visit from cops asking you to move along is not such a big deal. However being an obvious target for thieves by putting on the wrong signage can be asking for some real trouble. You are much better off with no signs than signage that has not been thought through carefully as to all the messages it is transmitting about the contents of the vehicle.

Plumbing service van including sewer service vans typically have tools in them as well as a supply of copper pipes and copper fittings. That is actually a poor choice for business sign. Stay away from any and all companies that tote tools around with them for their work. Tools are very easy to fence for quick cash.

 

[Chuck Q]

[quote pid='23514' dateline='1343912509']
"Guest Bri" said:
The art of camoflage is often being so obvious you don't require another look...
I always would carry a clipboard and wear a hardhat.
[/quote]

You, sir, get an "A" in stealth. You understand the concept of camouflage gained from personal experience.
One would be amazed at where one could go by simply carrying a clipboard and wearing a hard hat (button down blue collar shirt adds to the affect).

Don't try to be sneaky as you will simply look sneaky. Look like you belong and have a reason for being there. In the trade, they call this "Cover for location and cover for action" Your method answers an inquisitive mind both explanations for why you are where you are and what you are doing. Look like you belong, hide in plain sight. Avoid feeling/acting "guilty" or "sneaky" as they will both out you in seconds to an experienced eye.

    If one in authority was looking for a "suspicious child stealing white vans" (by the way, this seems like an urban legend rumor to me....) and found one with fake signs and no tools/equipment in back supporting those signs ......you would be rousted and spread on the ground post haste as YOU are the person they are looking for! You might as well paint "Free Candy" on the side of your rig. Would you rather be chatted to about your parking preference or grilled on why you are trying to conceal yourself by false pretenses?

Why hide anyways? You aren't doing anything terrible. One can always move when requested, we are mobile after all. Heck, why not simply ask permission? I spent a week parked in a kindly lady's thift shop on a beautiful Washington beach just by asking. She considered it a favor since I was there, nobody would be tempted to rifle through her "yard stuff".

Suggestion for short term emergency stays:
Ask the local Fire Department or Police if you could park in their lot.
Fire guys are always helpful and won't question "why" like the police but both options have worked well for me in the past.
Local VFWs are another "legal place" to ask, never been turned down yet!
Give people a chance, if they say "no", simply find another spot. Heck, you might even meet some interesting people during the experience!

Happy Trails!
Chuck

 

[Chuck Q]

Well.... I stand corrected. Evidently there are real creepers driving around white vans looking for victims.
Today's headlines (in the below link) contain such a story from Alabama:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/alabama-...n-sees-her-being-kidnapped-by-stranger-police
She is OK and he is in jail.

Here's a photo of the van in question. All "stealthed out"..........
Now imagine how your van with aluminum foil in the windows and stuff hanging off the bumper looks to cops. This creep had a blanket in the back window and the doors were chained closed from the inside. Doesn't look like he was planning anything nice.......

 

[maki2]

The standard equipment on white vans does not include an electronic creep detector ignition lockout device. Where you thinking there was some kind of magical power that white vans have that would make a creep not use them?

 

[highdesertranger]

and look at that van there is something written on the door. probably thinking he's stealth by looking like a business.

I am telling you trying to pretend like your something you are not just brings another layer of trouble. if you're trying to pretend like your a commercial vehicle then you must have commercial plates, commercial insurance, a contractor license. what happens if you get pulled over for something stupid and you have none of that but you have signs saying you are?

"oh! what a tangle web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

highdesertranger

 

[wayne49]

FYI Chains don't always mean evil.
Chain on the inside could be for security of the occupant. Same function as the chain on an entry door of a home or motel room.
I do know of one couple that had a chain lock setup inside their van.

 

[Doubleone]

So it seems everyone has their undies all in a bunch over this FB white van myth...  I'm thinking maybe you could just pose as a catering business and that might get you past a checkpoint without the proper creds...  You know, pretend like you're just some dumb working schmuck delivering fast food to a charter service or group camp.  That would definitely be out of place for an overnight but it could get you close to the event area...  Or maybe you could just stick to some 'free candy' signage and that might work out even better...  No one would ever take that seriously!  So just act extra creepy, if you don't want to seem creepy...  It puts the lotion on it's skin...  See, the secret is all in the reverse psychology!  Lol!