Am I making Bad Solar choices?

[urbankid12]

Planning on hitting the road in a few months...  I will try to keep it simple & to the point.

Power needs: 
3 phones streaming music, playing videos from memory , and youtube and internet 
1 laptop (will be expanding two 2 laptops within a year to work OR duel screens to make working online easier)
1 refrigerator (have not made the purchase yet, but will be in a mini-van so smaller size plus I'm looking for colder places to live (50's-70's temps) 
1 usb fan (might expand more down the line
0 lights (I have a lucy light, but I would like to get some LED lights  eventually and I always have a night light, but lucy light might meet that need long term)
NO microwave, cooking via butane stove, maybe 12v water kettle or 12v blender down the line, but might be 2+ years out so not needed to plan for as upgrades could be done IF and when those needs were there...

Power plan:

2 100W. Renogy fixed to the mini-van roof
1 80W portable solar panel,  likely may be expanded to two within a year.

40 Amp charge controller 
100Ah battery ( although maybe I should be looking more for 200Ah ??)


My travel patterns since I'm from Minnesota is to avoid temps above 75 at all possible.  Planning on wintering in New Mexico and trying to stay around places where the temp is 45-65 degrees.  (I'm cold blooded I think, but I have tons of blankets and it's what makes me happy as can be) I dislike sunny places so parking in sunlight would be a No, unless it's nice and cool then the warming sun would be great.  This should also make my fridge work less harder as well, provided I can find these colder temps year round.  (After a few years traveling to Alaska for the summers might be perfect if I can afford it by then) 

Does this system seem like bad solar choices for the life I am planning?  I don't want to be moving panels all day and by overshooting I think even if the panels are working 60-80% of what is "normal" then I would be good?  

Oh and I was thinking of getting a 10W solar panel as a backpacking & emergency power thing to keep a phone charged up.  not that I plan on using it since I do also have a few smaller battery packs but they are good for keeping the phone charged up a few extra times.   Nothing massive.  

Any advice be much appreciated,  I'm just looking at a bunch of the things in my Amazon cart and figured I'd ask for advice first if anyone is willing to give feedback.  Thank you.

 

[MrAlvinDude]

Does the movable solar panels come with its own solar controller?
Otherwise you might want to get two solar controllers.

It is possible to switch between the two sets of solar panels, if you only have one solar controller, but in my opinion it is more convenient (and more efficient) to have two solar controllers.

Either way, you typically will benefit from having one solar controller per different type of solar panel. 
It is usually possible to connect several solar controller outputs to the same battery/battery bank.

 

[B and C]

Elevation will be your friend in the summer and then it can still get a lot warmer than you want midday but will cool off at night. I like those same temps BTW.

I carry a 10 watt panel that I connect to the chassis battery when parked for awhile to keep replacing the phantom loads on it.

All panels the same or seperate controllers is good advice.

It is best to keep the batteries the same age, type, capacity. I would start with a cheap marine battery because you will probably murder it and is called the learner set. Most first timers do, it is just the nature of the beast. After you figure out your actual needs and have a handle on how to treat batteries is the time to then step up to longer lasting batteries.

 

[bullfrog]

I believe you need to realize solar only works at the listed rates in the best conditions which is proper angle in direct sunlight. Most cooler climates are cooler partially because of cloud cover. I think you are indicating that you don’t want to mess much with setting up or adjusting panels much. Just guessing that your power needs will well exceed your system if you get two or three cloudy days. I believe I would look at the price of a New Mexico State Parks pass and see what shore power is available as well as cost, another option is a cheap RV park for a month or so at a time or a camp host job that comes with a site and utilities. Only other option is a generator and even that requires you monitor your batteries so you don’t destroy them. Creating heat with solar electric is not very efficient at all. You really need to know your power needs before building a solar system. The number of hours you use the power makes a big difference. Guessing makes for mistakes. Find out exactly what your needs are before thinking about buying solar.

 

[Happy Camper]

I can't comment on the solar side of things, as there are many here with more knowledge and experience in that area.

But regarding the computer side I have a few thoughts. You most likely have a laptop that you plan to use as your primary. Instead of getting a second laptop, consider getting a portable monitor.

There are any number of models you can choose from with 13"-15" screens, built in speakers and so on. A big plus is that they are versatile and can run off of your laptop power via a type c connector, which would also supply the video signal in most cases.

Bonus is that depending on your phone, you can actually connect it and mirror the screen. Less power consumption, better portability, flexibility.

Good luck on your travels

This is just a sample. I have used Magedok in the past with good results

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089MBL47Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8.QoFbVQHM1Z8

 

[barleyguy]

Most cooler climates are cooler partially because of cloud cover.

This statement I don't agree with. Wyoming and Colorado, where I typically am. are some of the sunniest states but get extremely cold. Wyoming is typically around 270 days per year of sunny or partly cloudy, and parts of Colorado are in the 300 day range. Also, the high altitude tends to make the sun very intense in the summer, even though the thermometer can show moderate temperatures. From my experience cloud cover and average seasonal temperatures have no correlation to each other.

 

[tx2sturgis]

For your situation I would recommend you consider one of the mid to large off-the-shelf power packs, also called solar generators, made by Jackery, Goal Zero, Yeti, Kodiak, etc.

.

 

[highdesertranger]

in my opinion. one Luci light will not be enough in the winter.

also New Mexico gets very cold in the winter. even though you said you like that I don't think it will get up to your perfect temp(45-65) in most of New Mexico for much off the winter. most of New Mexico is pretty high elevation.

like others have said you are guessing and working backwards with the solar. you need to,

1. figure out your daily power needs.
2. size your battery according to #1
3. size your solar according to #2

of course there is fine tuning involved like cloudy days and safety buffers but first we need a sound number on usage. start the math. if you have any questions ask. we have all been there before.

highdesertranger

 

[skyl4rk]

I would start with 200W solar and 200 amp hours of battery, but try to leave enough space to expand to 300 amp hours to 400 amp hours for your future needs. Hard mounted panels are no maintenance, portables are a lot of maintenance and potentially a theft problem, so max out your roof space with hard mounted panels before going to portables.

 

[wayne49]

Regarding Minnesota and tons of blankets. I grew up in Minnesota late 50's and 60's, and my mother would turn the heat down at night to save on fuel oil. I have fond memories of the comforting feeling of the heavy blankets laying over me with the cool air on my face. After I retired and I was living in my van, in the winter I would use a modular sleep system. I was wrapped in layers like a mummy, with my nose breathing the cool air. Brought back those memories.

In the Southwest you won't encounter humidity like in the Land of 10,000 Lakes. After a while, 75 may seem too cool at times.

 

[urbankid12]

I would start with 200W solar and 200 amp hours of battery, but try to leave enough space to expand to 300 amp hours to 400 amp hours for your future needs. Hard mounted panels are no maintenance, portables are a lot of maintenance and potentially a theft problem, so max out your roof space with hard mounted panels before going to portables.

I think that is something I'm gonna follow.  If I were to put 3 100W panels on my roof it be pretty tricky with the curved roof but 2 100W would do the trick.  Plus a good 200Ah battery I'll look for with a controller able to support 400W to 600W if  or when I ever decide to upgrade.  I got a deep well near the front of my van I think would be a good spot.  That or under a seat if I can ratchet it down safely.  I think I will nix the fridge, or expect to have it unplugged most of the time if I do happen to pick one up.


As for everyone else, I'm sorry I'm completely clueless as to what my power consumption needs will be, because I havn't lived in my van before and if I don't freeze to death or run out of power or die of stupidity I think that day when I do become basic enough on understanding power I would like to create a power consumption range calculator so I can ACTUALLY know what I will consume.


like if I knew how much a typical laptop consumes in power an hour of usage THEN I could estimate my daily usage needs likely 10-12 hours (8 hours working 2-4 recreational)  Plus if I could pinpoint the fridge consumption WHEN I DO BUY IT, then I could better track how much power it consumes based on the outside temp/inside van temp so I can better estimate my power consumption.  

Until then I raise my had as the Idiot Jackazz who has no clue what he is doing and is still going to do it because I want to do and like any job you start out as an unexperienced idiot until you gain the skills to become a professional, and if you don't start by not knowing and still doing it then you will never gain the skills needed to start.  

If I get out there with my 200W on the roof and it's not enough I think maybe I'll get a jakery with extra panels and use that as a backup secondary system.  One where I can hookup and power up to an outlet if need be.  

I appreciate all the help, I really do some great advice and it's very humbling I'm sure I'm in for a yuge shock, but im working a full time job and im focused on downsizing and getting rid of everything that I can't fit in my mini-van.  I just don't have the energy, nor time to track power consumption.  All I can do now is just get feedback to get a GOOD guess as to what I should be shooting for to help.  I'm sure i'll figure out the finer details once I'm able to switch to my online based job where I don't have to be so exhausted as I am left from my day job.

 

[urbankid12]

Regarding Minnesota and tons of blankets. I grew up in Minnesota late 50's and 60's, and my mother would turn the heat down at night to save on fuel oil. I have fond memories of the comforting feeling of the heavy blankets laying over me with the cool air on my face. After I retired and I was living in my van, in the winter I would use a modular sleep system. I was wrapped in layers like a mummy, with my nose breathing the cool air. Brought back those memories.

In the Southwest you won't encounter humidity like in the Land of 10,000 Lakes. After a while, 75 may seem too cool at times.

haha, same here my parents used wood burning to warm the house so in the late night when the fire would die out it would get much colder making it painful to get up to go to school in the morning  Had to dart into the bathroom shower for warmth.  I still crank up the AC at night to make it super cold, enough to need blankets to sleep.  I been trying to downsize my blanket horde but it's hard to let them go. haha.  I do hope I adjust to a more normal climate, your Minnesota roots feedback is very much appreciated were a rare breed in our climate I guess.  I might be more of a snowbird and return to Minnesota after the winter,  not sure I really don't know what I want to do.. I just know I gotta get out of MN this fall before the 2nd wave, or I will never get out.  I'm usually not a risk taker I over analyze everything to death and end up not taking action.

 

[B and C]

Analysis paralysis is what it is called. I grew up in iowa so I am familiar with the cold night/morning routine. I still sleep under a sheet and blanket here at the S&B with the air at 72 and a ceiling fan going.

Keep a fair amount of blankets as even the desert southwest can get to freezing at night, or a good sleeping bag. You can always sleep on top of the blankets for storage.

 

[Qxxx]

Power needs: 
3 phones streaming music, playing videos from memory , and youtube and internet 
1 laptop (will be expanding two 2 laptops within a year to work OR duel screens to make working online easier)
1 refrigerator (have not made the purchase yet, but will be in a mini-van so smaller size plus I'm looking for colder places to live (50's-70's temps) 
1 usb fan (might expand more down the line

0 lights (I have a lucy light, but I would like to get some LED lights  eventually and I always have a night light, but lucy light might meet that need long term)

NO microwave, cooking via butane stove, maybe 12v water kettle or 12v blender down the line, but might be 2+ years out so not needed to plan for as upgrades could be done IF and when those needs were there...

To give you an idea of loads, in my rig ...

1. my laptop power supply says 45W max, and measurements show about 7W normal running and 15W when streamng  a movie over the internet. Gaming computers will likely draw more.
2. I run an 120 VAC 60W Led bulb for lighting and it draws 11W. Plenty of light for inside the van.
3. my little 12V fan draws 0.5-1.0A depending on setting, or 6-12W.
4. many 12V RV frigs indicate 50-60W MAX draw, but the duty cycle should be only 20-25%.
5. phone chargers output about 5V at 1A MAX while charging. I think this draw will be negligible in perspective.

So roughly speaking ...
  computer: 8hr * 15W = 120WH.
  lighting: 4hr * 10W = 40WH.
  fan: intermittent use.
  frig: 24hr * 0.25 * 60W = 360WH.
  total: 520WH per day.

Running off 12V Battery, 520WH / 12V = 43AH draw per 24hr day. That's about as much energy as you can safely draw from a single 100AH AGM (ie, 50% draw down).

Figure, on a "good" day, the ave output of a 100W solar panel will be 75W for 5hr = 375WH. or about 30AH. And not as much on cloudy days. So you'd need at least 200W of solar panels to adequately power my scenario above. The frig is the big power hog.

 

[skyl4rk]

I have had a small solar power system since 2000, at first on a sailboat, then on a van. This is an example of what works well for charging phones and laptop, powering lights and the occasional power tools on an inverter.

Two marine deep discharge batteries from NAPA, Menards or similar.
A Sunsaver 20L solar controller (with Low Voltage Disconnect).
Two 100W solar panels, the hard type with aluminum frames, not flexible.
A 20 amp fuse connected to the load outlet positive of the solar controller.
Use short runs of wire. Ideally 10 gauge between the batteries and the controller.
Two small bus bars, one positive, one negative, if you have a place to mount them.
One or more usb charging ports.
One or more cigarette lighter outlets.
A solenoid which connects the house and starter battery when the alternator is on.
With this system, if you want to add a battery, connect it in parallel with the existing batteries. If you want to add solar panels, get a second charge controller.
If you use an inverter, connect it directly to the battery.
Use a voltmeter to monitor battery and charge status.

 

[urbankid12]

Qxxx & skyl4rk thank you both VERY much for your inputs. Extremely helpful, I think based of that having 200W and 200Ah battery would be plenty provided I hold off on getting a fridge. Or if anything I would need to actually calculate it's power consumption beforehand to see if my system could support it comfortable once I do get my system up and running.


So my solar system would consist of..

two $180 100Ah batteries:

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Po...=1597697567&sprefix=100ah+dee,aps,162&sr=8-10

two $105 100W solar panels

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GF5JY35/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

one$136 40Amp Solar Controller (incase I want to ad panels, but likely maybe just get a 2nd controller then I could use different panels)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DNVTJHD/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Grand total 706 Or about 630 if I only get the 20Amp solar controller. Although if I nix one of those batteries with the 20Amp solar controler it be about 460. That might be much more price friendly to start off. Then that would pretty much seal my fate of no fridge at least unit I were to upgrade the system.


Would it be bad to add a brand new 100ah battery into the system say in 2-3 years?

 

[bullfrog]

You could always add a complete second system instead of adding to the original and let it run the fridge. Nothing wrong with having a back up if something goes down in one of the systems. It is best not to mix old and new batteries which means you should check the manufacture dates when buying.

 

[Qxxx]

In my case I went very minimalist and only have a 100W system, 300W inverter, and am not running a frig. I went minimalist because I saw too darn many youtubes of people spending many months and many thousands of dollars on their builds, and I didn't want to fall down the same rabbit hole.

So the numbers I gave for the frig are nominal values based upon online specs and other people's experiences that I've seen. Also, many people contend you should go ALL 12V, including buying 12V direct power supplies for the laptops (ugh). But I went 120VAC for both lighting and computer, and that's pretty easy.

And in line with what bullfrog just mentioned, right now I actually have a hybrid system. 3 years ago, I spent days installing the solar and wiring up a bunch of 12V sockets, switches, plugs, voltmeters, and USB ports. I am actually tearing that out now, and replacing with a Yeti 1000 to provide 120VAC for the laptop and lighting, and 12VDC for the little fan. It also has 5V USB ports. I will also run a small Alpicool 20 frig off it too. 

It really does take a lot of time (and some non-trivial knowledge) to wire up all those [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]12V sockets, s[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]witches, plugs, voltmeters, [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]and USB ports that I mentioned, and those are already built into the Yeti, so to me it's kind of a no-brainer. [/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So a possible hybrid system would be a smaller Yeti 500 or Jackery 500 to power lights, computer, fan, and phones, and then a separate 12V solar system to power the frig. This latter would require minimal wiring compared to what I mentioned above.[/font]

 

[B and C]

The only problem with a central power source like a jackery would be wires running everywhere unless everything is kept central to where it is. I installed power ports at the point of use. I never trip over a wire or pull something off the counter/shelf.

 

[skyl4rk]

Batteries are cheaper if you pick them up at the store.

Get a controller with Low Voltage Disconnect, or get a separate LVD. It will save you money by preventing damage to your batteries.

I recommended the Sunsaver 20L because the one I bought in 2000 is still working. I'm sure there are other good controllers but this one is proven to be reliable.