Airbags or Springs. The van has got to stop twerking!

[La Tortuga]

Hello,
I have a 98 1500 conversion van with a stow away cargo box on the hitch.  I have noticed more bouncing in the back and even some teter totering around the back axle.  On bumpy roads the front end feels lite.  I know I should have a one ton but this is what i have.  

Does anyone have any experience/recommendations of stiffening up the suspension on a 98 Dodge 1500 conversion van?

I am considering heavier spring vs air bags all arround.  Are there enginered lift kits?  I don't want to loose my articulation and will be putting a locker in the rear.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[John61CT]

You can have a super lifted ultra strong rear end all you like, but nothing will resolve the dangerous situation you're describing other than reducing the rear weight or redistributing some of it forward into the horizontal CoG

 

[Almost There]

Check your shocks first before you do anything else.

All the stiffening up of suspension won't help if you have worn shocks.

 

[La Tortuga]

Hello,
I have a 98 1500 conversion van with a stow away cargo box on the hitch.  I have noticed more bouncing in the back and even some teter totering around the back axle.  On bumpy roads the front end feels lite.  I know I should have a one ton but this is what i have.  

Does anyone have any experience/recommendations of stiffening up the suspension on a 98 Dodge 1500 conversion van?

I am considering heavier spring vs air bags all arround.  Are there enginered lift kits?  I don't want to loose my articulation and will be putting a locker in the rear.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks, I am considering moving batteries and/or water storage more towards the front.  they are currently a foot or two in front of the rear axles.

 

[La Tortuga]

You can have a super lifted ultra strong rear end all you like, but nothing will resolve the dangerous situation you're describing other than reducing the rear weight or redistributing some of it forward into the horizontal CoG

That was my thinking too.  I replaced the shocks last winter in Yuma.


Does anyone have any experience w upgrading springs vs airbags?

 

[regis101]

Locate a Public scale. There are many around.

Pull the front wheel onto the scale. Then the back. Then the whole van. Figure out where you're at with weight.

As mentioned, shocks would be a good starting point. I'd be looking at replacing all four to get a baseline on your seat-of-da-pants ride quality.

 

[highdesertranger]

it does sound like you are seriously overloaded. if you are, anything you do is like trying to put lipstick on a pig. take it to the scales and weigh the front and rear separate and report back.

and yes I have extensive experience with suspension and airbags. but we need some weight numbers. highdesertranger

 

[Parkedinavan]

Not to be harsh, but if all you have is a 1500 don't treat it like a 2500. Installing rear air bags or springs are just putting a band aid on your elbow for a sore on your knee. It sounds like you have too much weight on your van and are putting yourself and others in danger. A locker rear end only helps with traction not load distribution. I have seen this way too many times in the RV world, there are 2 true fixes, lighten your load or get a bigger van. Hope this helps, once again I'm sorry is I came off harsh, but I don't want you to get injured.

 

[DannyB1954]

I put an extra helper leaf spring on my 83 Dodge B250. I found it a great help. Wasn't expensive either. Possibly from age or because it was a van conversion the springs in the rear were soft. The vehicle should support some weight from a trailer on the rear hitch but when I would step on the bumper the back end would sag, (I am under 200 lb). This is what I used https://www.amazon.com/Hellwig-991-...pID=31jJZQKSxcL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
I am happy with them. Unless you have a very long 1/2" ratchet and torque wrench, I would have a shop put them on. Get several quotes. I think a shop could do both sides in an hour. Easiest to take off the tire, (5 lug nuts), and then it is another 8 nuts to deal with per side. An impact gun makes quick work of it.

 

[steamjam1]

It depends on how much weight your carrying, and where your carrying it.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Look under the van, at the shocks...are they rusty and dirty or leaky? If so, they have given good service life and it's time to replace them.

Apply a lot of downward force (most of your weight) on the rear bumper or hitch carrier, and release. If the van rebounds more than once, and bounces 2 or 3 times, the shocks are history.

If the shocks pass, then it's time to look at stiffer springs AND heavy duty shocks.

 

[La Tortuga]

I put an extra helper leaf spring on my 83 Dodge B250. I found it a great help. Wasn't expensive either. Possibly from age or because it was a van conversion the springs in the rear were soft. The vehicle should support some weight from a trailer on the rear hitch but when I would step on the bumper the back end would sag, (I am under 200 lb). This is what I used https://www.amazon.com/Hellwig-991-...pID=31jJZQKSxcL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch      
I am happy with them. Unless you have a very long 1/2" ratchet and torque wrench, I would have a shop put them on. Get several quotes.  I think a shop could do both sides in an hour. Easiest to take off the tire, (5 lug nuts), and then it is another 8 nuts to deal with per side. An impact gun makes quick work of it.

Thanks for the help/advise.  It's good to hear from somone about their experience springs or airbags!

 

[steamjam1]

Thanks for the help/advise.  It's good to hear from somone about their experience springs or airbags!

There are a few things about Dodge vans that you should consider: The brakes on the 1/2 ton and 3/4 are the same, BUT the rear axles are different. The 1/2 ton will be equipped with the Chrysler 8.25 axle, which really aren't that strong. Its the same axle Dodges used in Dodge Dakota, Durango, and 1/2 ton pick up. (Different length tubes and shafts) The 3/4 ton got the much stronger 9.25 that can carry alot more weight on the bearings. You can go to a wrecking yard and buy an 3/4 ton axle AND springs for under $300. The shocks are the same and uses the same wheels as 1/2 ton.
Then magically your B1500 will be a B2500. (In the rear, but if most of the weight is back there, having 1/2 ton springs up front won't matter.)

 

[ISAWHIM]

Airbags are normally run in joined pairs. They are designed for one of two uses... Comfort or load-assistance. None are designed for anti-sway. They will actually add sway, in most cases. If you get airbags installed, get the ones for load-assistance (rigidity), not comfort (bounce). Also, if available, get the ones that auto-level and are independent controlled. That helps with side-loaded cargo issues.

Springs are a raw "last resort", which will just bounce you around, depending on your load-size. You need shocks to dampen the bounce, but if your load is not balanced, you will still sway. You will just have a more rigid "twerk", instead of a soft "twerk". "Jump around, jump around, everybody get up and jump around!"

First check that your load is balanced. Even if nothing has changed, it may have just always been "off". Now it is seeing the damage from having a high side-loaded vehicle.

If you are "twerking"... shifting side to side, or teetering side to side, you may need an anti-sway-bar, or need to replace one. (Not all vehicles have one.)

They help stop the vehicles left/right pairs from moving independently, which causes that "twerking" motion. Both go up and both go down, within a determined range-limit.

Unless you are a tank or a jeep, intending to do rock-crawling with four-wheel-drive posi-traction, then you want anti-sway-bars. You also want to make sure that they are functioning.

Where they fail... The mountings can lose the rubber mountings. The metal bar can "twist", so one tire is always with more pressure UP, with the other mostly DOWN. That makes you twerk on every bump, as it throws your car to the side, when any wheel is hit. (A low shock/spring/leaf/air-bag will also do that too, with a normal anti-sway-bar. But you will see one tire has a lower gap in the wheel-well, which may also be a loading issue.)

Always replace springs/shocks/leaf-springs in pairs. Air-bags are not that much of an issue, as they are usually joined loads or independent balanced units. If it is your shocks, springs or leafs... Think about upgrading to a more rigid set. The "normal set" that you have installed is obviously not suited for your constant load. Most are sold to sustain a comfort ride, unloaded, with temporary "high-load" limits. You essentially are rebuilding for a higher tonnage vehicle now. If it was a 1-ton vehicle, you now need to replace things as if it were a 2-ton vehicle. If you were a 4-ton vehicle, the extra ton of "stuff" in the vehicle will not matter as much. That is only a 1/5 new-load going from 4 to 5, not a 2x new load, going from 1 to 2.

 

[DannyB1954]

I have to say that I would rather add a spring than an air bag. The bouncing is controlled by the shock absorber not the spring or air bag. Air bags do not stop sway any more than heavier springs. Again that is the job of the shock absorber and sway bar. If air bags were the cure all, they wouldn't bother to even put springs on vehicles, they would just use air bags.

I like simple no fail systems. Air bags and the air lines going to them can leak. When that happens, they might as well not even be there.
There are advantages to air bags but most do not apply to RVers carrying the same loads. As an example if you hauled a heavy boat several times a year. It is nice to be able to add more air pressure doing that and then let the air out the rest of the time.
BTW I like the solution in Post #13 the best, but you would have to get the same gear ratio that you have stock, and the labor will set you back another couple of hundred.

 

[La Tortuga]

There are a few things about Dodge vans that you should consider: The brakes on the 1/2 ton and 3/4 are the same, BUT the rear axles are different. The 1/2 ton will be equipped with the Chrysler 8.25 axle, which really aren't that strong. Its the same axle Dodges used in Dodge Dakota, Durango, and 1/2 ton pick up. (Different length tubes and shafts) The 3/4 ton got the much stronger 9.25 that can carry alot more weight on the bearings. You can go to a wrecking yard and buy an 3/4 ton axle AND springs for under $300. The shocks are the same and uses the same wheels as 1/2 ton.
Then magically your B1500 will be a B2500. (In the rear, but if most of the weight is back there, having 1/2 ton springs up front won't matter.)

Thanks for the great information!  That really helps!

 

[La Tortuga]

Airbags are normally run in joined pairs. They are designed for one of two uses... Comfort or load-assistance. None are designed for anti-sway. They will actually add sway, in most cases. If you get airbags installed, get the ones for load-assistance (rigidity), not comfort (bounce). Also, if available, get the ones that auto-level and are independent controlled. That helps with side-loaded cargo issues.

Springs are a raw "last resort", which will just bounce you around, depending on your load-size. You need shocks to dampen the bounce, but if your load is not balanced, you will still sway. You will just have a more rigid "twerk", instead of a soft "twerk". "Jump around, jump around, everybody get up and jump around!"

First check that your load is balanced. Even if nothing has changed, it may have just always been "off". Now it is seeing the damage from having a high side-loaded vehicle.

If you are "twerking"... shifting side to side, or teetering side to side, you may need an anti-sway-bar, or need to replace one. (Not all vehicles have one.)

They help stop the vehicles left/right pairs from moving independently, which causes that "twerking" motion. Both go up and both go down, within a determined range-limit.

Unless you are a tank or a jeep, intending to do rock-crawling with four-wheel-drive posi-traction, then you want anti-sway-bars. You also want to make sure that they are functioning.

Where they fail... The mountings can lose the rubber mountings. The metal bar can "twist", so one tire is always with more pressure UP, with the other mostly DOWN. That makes you twerk on every bump, as it throws your car to the side, when any wheel is hit. (A low shock/spring/leaf/air-bag will also do that too, with a normal anti-sway-bar. But you will see one tire has a lower gap in the wheel-well, which may also be a loading issue.)

Always replace springs/shocks/leaf-springs in pairs. Air-bags are not that much of an issue, as they are usually joined loads or independent balanced units. If it is your shocks, springs or leafs... Think about upgrading to a more rigid set. The "normal set" that you have installed is obviously not suited for your constant load. Most are sold to sustain a comfort ride, unloaded, with temporary "high-load" limits. You essentially are rebuilding for a higher tonnage vehicle now. If it was a 1-ton vehicle, you now need to replace things as if it were a 2-ton vehicle. If you were a 4-ton vehicle, the extra ton of "stuff" in the vehicle will not matter as much. That is only a 1/5 new-load going from 4 to 5, not a 2x new load, going from 1 to 2.

Thanks for all the great information.  It will help me troubleshoot the problem!

 

[La Tortuga]

I have to say that I would rather add a spring than an air bag. The bouncing is controlled by the shock absorber not the spring or air bag. Air bags do not stop sway any more than heavier springs. Again that is the job of the shock absorber and sway bar. If air bags were the cure all, they wouldn't bother to even put springs on vehicles, they would just use air bags.

I like simple no fail systems. Air bags and the air lines going to them can leak. When that happens, they might as well not even be there.
There are advantages to air bags but most do not apply to RVers carrying the same loads. As an example if you hauled a heavy boat several times a year. It is nice to be able to add more air pressure doing that and then let the air out the rest of the time.
BTW I like the solution in Post #13 the best, but you would have to get the same gear ratio that you have stock, and the labor will set you back another couple of hundred.

I also like #13. Springs and rear end replacement sounds like a good idea.  Thanks for the info about the gear ratio!

 

[steamjam1]

Dodge used very few ratios when it comes to axles. The most common in 1/2 and 3/4 ton is 3:21. The one ton full floater dana 60 got the 3:55 or 4:09 ratio. Generally speaking, if you get an axle out of a B250/B2500 with the same engine as your 150/1500, chances are better then 75% it'll be with the same ratio. Bolts right in.. Even uses the same brake hose.

Dodge didn't like change. Rear axles and springs are directly interchangeable between 1978 and 2003. If you really wanted you could use a full float 1-ton axle and wheels out back along with the 1 ton springs. Bolts right in. Again it uses the same brake hose. But at that point you'll have to upgrade the front springs to better match the spring rates. You'll also haveto carry two spare tires as 1 ton uses 8 lug 16" wheels, and 1/2 to 3/4 ton uses 15" 5 lug wheels.

Or you can simply grab the entire suspension off a B3500 and install it into your B1500. Bolts right in. Even ABS equipped parts... All you have to do is remove the ABS sensors and VIOLA.. Your set.

 

[La Tortuga]

Dodge used very few ratios when it comes to axles. The most common in 1/2 and 3/4 ton is 3:21. The one ton full floater dana 60 got the 3:55 or 4:09 ratio. Generally speaking, if you get an axle out of a B250/B2500 with the same engine as your 150/1500, chances are better then 75% it'll be with the same ratio. Bolts right in.. Even uses the same brake hose.

Dodge didn't like change. Rear axles and springs are directly interchangeable between 1978 and 2003. If you really wanted you could use a full float 1-ton axle and wheels out back along with the 1 ton springs. Bolts right in. Again it uses the same brake hose. But at that point you'll have to upgrade the front springs to better match the spring rates. You'll also haveto carry two spare tires as 1 ton uses 8 lug 16" wheels, and 1/2 to 3/4 ton uses 15" 5 lug wheels.

Or you can simply grab the entire suspension off a B3500 and install it into your B1500. Bolts right in. Even ABS equipped parts... All you have to do is remove the ABS sensors and VIOLA.. Your set.

Thanks for the great info.  While body on frame has its advantages, this is a great example of some advantages of the unibody!!