Air Locker Rear Differential

[Lafnbug]

Join me on my latest journey down The Rabbit Hole:

I have done ALOT of reading about 4WD vans, as I really lust for one. But, despite that, I still cannot justify the expense, weight, and maintenance for the few times I may actually need it. Instead, I am considering an Air Locker for the rear of a 2WD extended Ford van. As seen here:

http://store.arbusa.com/Air-Lockers-C7.aspx

I have no experience with them at all, nor do I know anyone who has. My questions relate to the costs vs benefits:

1. In a van, will they offer any real insurance against unexpected snow/muddy conditions?

2. Are the costs justified in a 2WD van?

Let the flogging begin!

 

[Lafnbug]

I forgot to add that I will have an on board air compressor for other purposes of tools, airing up tires, etc, so it makes sense to utilize it's functionality.

 

[LeeRevell]

It's a personal choice. Can't see myself needing to go that far afield, so I can't justify the cost and other expenses. I'd prefer putting the money into other things I need more.
But others may indeed want the added off-road mobility.

 

[cdiggy]

I had one when they first came out on the early 90's. I wasn't impressed and it didn't last long. I was four wheeling it in a blazer with 35" mudders too so that might have contributed to its failure. They might have gotten better over the years as well.

 

[SternWake]

I've though about a locker myself, especially when i was spending a few cumulative months in Baja per year.  But I no longer go there.


I've no experience with one personally.

Do note that in snow, if one tire is on dry asphalt the other on wet ice, locker will allow you drive out. but if the locker is engaged and you make a turn on slippery roads, the locker will cause the back end to lose traction. as the inside wheel will spin too fast.

But this can be fun too.  I used to love having a LSD differential on a stick shift.  Push in the clutch, turn the wheel a bit, mash the throttle and pop the clutch and there goes the rear end.  Whohoo!!!!!

The first time I wanted to practice driving my van in the snow, I could not swing the ass end out unless using the parking brake.  Not nearly as much fun.

I know on Toyotas that come with locking differentials, they say no more than 25MPH.  I do not know if they are air lockers or electronic though.

I'm just gonna stay with my open differential.  I know what my Van can make, and what it cannot, and I don't think a locking Diff would change that line too much in my expected usage.

 

[highdesertranger]

the people I know that have them say they love them. however I take that with a grain of salt. an air locker does give you the best of both worlds, an open diff most of the time and a locker when you need it. how ever the cost, e gads. I run GM products and for the 14 bolt rear end(the best light truck rear end ever made and still made) I prefer the Detroit locker. for the 14 bolt it's the cheapest posi/locker out there, they are harsh and you better know how to drive, but they are super tough, and super reliable. unlike other posi/lockers. I am install one in my truck right now. highdesertranger

 

[Canine]

I'm a big fan of lockers. They aren't the same as 4wd, but they do help a lot. Since you already have onboard compressed air, the cost will be less. The cost of installing a locker on a 2wd is cheaper compared to purchasing a truck with a stock 4wd. I personally prefer the torsion style locker if I didn't have air.

However, the person behind the wheel is the most important thing. One time I came across a gal was stuck. A few guys tried to help her get unstuck, but were unsuccessful. I gave it a go and got her unstuck in 5 seconds. She was quite happy. I explained how I did that, how she got herself stuck, and how to avoid it next time. When she took off, she immediately dug herself in. I hopped in and drove her to a spot where she wouldn't get stuck. It was neither technical nor difficult, but no one there knew how to operate a manual shift. Their answer was to ram and jam it out, but all that did was get her more stuck. A locker may not have helped quite enough to overcome the lack of driving skill, but a 4wd would have for sure.

A lot of what you are asking yourself is convenience. Chains, lowering air pressure in tires, winches, etc. often do as much or more than what a locker or 4wd will do. That stuff is cheaper, but less convenient. But you need to store that stuff, too. Or you could store your getting-unstuck-stuff in the form of a locker or a 4wd drive train. I grew up on both 2wd and 4wd and you would be amazed at the places I went with an open differential in a 2wd truck. I am a viking when it comes to putting chains on and taking them off.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I have never had an ARB style air locker, I have had front and rear e-lockers in all my Land Cruisers, a ratchet locker in a Jeep and a Lincoln Locker (which I did myself) in a Ford Ranger. Lockers are good up to about 10MPH so I wouldn't want one I couldn't turn off. I do love having onboard air so I would find that appealing and from the issues I have heard of with them I think it had a lot to do with install.

To echo the above comment, with anything offroad I have never found more gas to be the solution to anything other than a 1,000,000 hit Youtube video, I was able to idle through most everything fairly well. With a manual starting in second also helped often, with the Land Cruiser it was an auto but had a button to start in second, it was also locked front rear and center so all four tires could always turn the same.

I personally would take a locked rear end in 2wd over a 4x4, either way you've only got two tires spinning and having them on the same axle will allow approach angles you couldn't do in a 4x4.

I'm a fan is my point and a locked rear along with a good driver will do almost everything you could ever need sans heavy hobby wheeling or serious mud.

 

[MikeRuth]

I mention this in another thread a while back, I think a Locker, like the ARB would be good for my E-150 if I was going to push the off road driving. I really don't know if I will. Been there done that with my LandCrusier. It was fun but I really never went that far off the road to camp. I don't think I will in my van. I should say that "far" off on roads that would be very tough to navigate.

 

[cdiggy]

the people I know that have them say they love them. however I take that with a grain of salt. an air locker does give you the best of both worlds, an open diff most of the time and a locker when you need it. how ever the cost, e gads. I run GM products and for the 14 bolt rear end(the best light truck rear end ever made and still made) I prefer the Detroit locker. for the 14 bolt it's the cheapest posi/locker out there, they are harsh and you better know how to drive, but they are super tough, and super reliable. unlike other posi/lockers. I am install one in my truck right now. highdesertranger

I agree. Unless you are a racer changing gears all the time in which case the Chrysler and ford rears that don't need the shims are the way to go. I am assuming I have a 14 bolt in my P30 which might get a Detroit locker eventually, it certainly is cheaper then a 4WD conversion and their reputation is legendary. I have had an arb, ratcheting locker (don't know what brand), and a Moroso super brute and the super brute was the best of the bunch.

 

[highdesertranger]

cdiggy, you should have a 14bolt on a p30. is it full floating, do the axles shafts unbolt from the out side of the brake drum? if they do it's a 14bolt. the Detroit Locker is the way to go. the 14bolt carrier is so massive that the Detroit fits inside of it, so you are just buying the internals, you don't have to buy a new carrier to. this brings the price way down. if you search around you can find them for under 500 bucks brand new. the 14bolt carrier is also totally adjustable when the carrier is installed, needs no shims. I am dong this install right know, I should start a thread. here's a couple of more fun facts on a 14bolt, the axle tubes are a massive 1/2 thick, the axle shafts are all the same between srw and drw. the pinion drops in from the front of the pumpkin(like on a semi) there are no shims under a bearing, you change shims from the outside, this makes set up easy. they have 3 bearings(instead of 2) supporting the pinion, again like a semi. they are plentiful and cheap, they have been in production from 1973 to the present. they have been used in vehicles up to 15,000lbs gvwr, that I know of. highdesertranger

 

[Lafnbug]

Thanks everyone for the discourse! Lots of valuable insight here. I have thought about the Detroit Locker as well, it would be the next choice. Some people can't stand their noise, but I like the mechanical music myself!

Highdesertranger, I would love to see the thread on your 14 bolt project - if you have the time...

 

[cdiggy]

cdiggy, you should have a 14bolt on a p30. is it full floating, do the axles shafts unbolt from the out side of the brake drum? if they do it's a 14bolt. the Detroit Locker is the way to go. the 14bolt carrier is so massive that the Detroit fits inside of it, so you are just buying the internals, you don't have to buy a new carrier to. this brings the price way down. if you search around you can find them for under 500 bucks brand new. the 14bolt carrier is also totally adjustable when the carrier is installed, needs no shims. I am dong this install right know, I should start a thread. here's a couple of more fun facts on a 14bolt, the axle tubes are a massive 1/2 thick, the axle shafts are all the same between srw and drw. the pinion drops in from the front of the pumpkin(like on a semi) there are no shims under a bearing, you change shims from the outside, this makes set up easy. they have 3 bearings(instead of 2) supporting the pinion, again like a semi. they are plentiful and cheap, they have been in production from 1973 to the present. they have been used in vehicles up to 15,000lbs gvwr, that I know of. highdesertranger

I would love to see the work you are doing. +1 on a thread about it. Good to know you can use the carrier that's already in it.