AGM or LiFePo4?

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I been using lifepo4 almost 2 years, once you go lithium you never go back to lead acid. Safety isnt an issue as long as you don't punctured them. A lifepo4 fire will be as violent as li-ion, I seen it firsthand. But the chance of that happening are about the same as a lead acid exploding, it can happen but its rare. You can improve your safety by use of overvoltage relays/alarms etc. 

If you going to use a drop-in replacement and solar, you will need some sort of overvoltage relay, the battery has a BMS which monitors voltage/balancing if it reaches the limits it triggers the BMS to stop accepting current, this doesnt stop the controller from reading the battery. The controller will try to force voltage into the battery creating voltage surges, these surges will destroy anything connected to the battery. I encounter this many times is why I use an overvoltage relay. Lifepo4 and solar, this is my setup. Notice how the relay disconnect the solar panel from controller. You don't want to disconnect battery from controller, that will cause controller to act weird. The overvoltage relay is about 5 dollars, the 30 amp automotive relay is about 4 dollars.
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You also will need a coulomb meter, lifepo4 will read 13.1 volts almost the entire time. A coulomb meter counts amps going in/out battery. I use the tk15 (about 25 dollars for 50 amp model), you need something silmilar otherwise you will never know what the battery status is. 
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Picture of lifepo4 cell that caught on fire, this is a 26650 cell 3.2 volts, drop-in replacement batteries have about 80 of these (or more) in a 4s configuration. I'm not scaring anyone or spreading disinformation, but just pointing out worst case scenario, they do go up in flames like a blow torch. I was removing cell and shorted it out which punctured a hole in it. It didnt just catch on fire by itself. I got 200 of these and I will be using them, they are too powerful not to put them to use. Before like everyone else I thought lifepo4 was safer then li-ion, but lithium is lithium. I treat these same as li-ion. I never had a fire with li-ion and they are more dangerous then lifepo4. 
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max+sophia said:
Anh, What numbers should I be looking for?  The system is not just for Ruby.  I need to be able to run an oil boiler when the electric goes down.  The electric kettle I'd like is 1500w

I honestly don't know, but I'm guessing quite a lot. Those aren't things I would think I'd want to run from batteries just because the draw is so high.
 
...  you will need some sort of overvoltage relay
Not good. I also read through a lot of the alternate thread that John referenced. Overall, I get the feeling that Li for RVs is still at what would be called the early adopter phase. 
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_adopter

I would prefer buying into a more "mature" technology, myself, especially given the massive cost increase to go LiFePO4. You pays your money, and .... you sinks or swims.
 
jonyjoe303 said:
I been using lifepo4 almost 2 years, once you go lithium you never go back to lead acid. Safety isnt an issue as long as you don't punctured them. A lifepo4 fire will be as violent as li-ion, I seen it firsthand. But the chance of that happening are about the same as a lead acid exploding, it can happen but its rare. You can improve your safety by use of overvoltage relays/alarms etc. 
This is very informative. Thank you. You've given me a few of the pieces I was looking for. 

What you're saying matches up well with what I've already read, but I'm wondering what device you use between your alternator and the battery to handle charging? What about when charging via shore power?
 
John61CT said:
So if that's all you need, a grand total of $400 will get you a decent quality ~500AH bank, much easier to keep alive, if you go with drop-in IMO may even last longer.
John61CT - is this flooded lead acid? The cheapest AGM I've found so far is about $150 per 100Ah.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
What do you guys think about the Renogy LiFePo4 12V battery 100AH?  It is on sale now for $799 with free shipping.  Has all the protection circuitry stuff...
 
picopat said:
John61CT - is this flooded lead acid? The cheapest AGM I've found so far is about $150 per 100AH.
Yeah, I think John mistated there. My findings are like yours, maybe a bit higher. I figure that, with AGM, it costs about $250-300 to add each additional 100W solar panel plus 100AH battery. So including charger and wiring, 300W and 300AH will cost around $900.

And I believe solar panel prices are going up because of the tariffs.
 
Anhedonic said:
Well these seem to come in multiple sizes and configurations if you want one stop shopping:

https://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-...8-8-spell&keywords=windy+nation+solar+kit+agm

These are tempting for their completeness even if they have less oomph than you're looking for.
That sounds about right, somewhat over $1000 including the big inverter and cabling. It says modified sinewave, and I'd rather have a pure sinewave inverter for that price range. Also, who knows about those (offbrand ???) batteries. Bob Wells always recommends UB121000 for AGM.
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-UB121000-45978-100AH-Cycle-Battery/dp/B00S1RT58C

Also, for my small 100W system, I think I'm going to try something that will likely garner a lot of pooh-poohs from the more experienced people. I'm going to change out the 100W monocrystalline solar panel for amorphous (or possibly just try wiring it in parallel with the mono, as they all have blocking diodes). This panel will be a good deal larger, of course, but I'm a bit tired of the mono panel output dropping way way down as soon as one part of the panel gets shaded. And which happens all the time in the forest CGs. Amorphous apparently do much better in shady and cloudy conditions (but what do I know until I actually try it).
 
Anhedonic said:
So, are all drop-ins created equally poorly? Or are there some good, ready-to-go 12v LFP batteries one can buy off the shelf with BMS? I mean they can't *all* be terrible, right?
The problem is the makers of dropins do not make the actual cells, so we just don't know.

Takes decades of widespread usage, many reports from trusted recommenders before a reputation is well enough established.

For me.

And not actually saving money by taking chances.

And lower performance, can't get high C rates,

no access to cell voltages,

no interfacing between BMS components.

I really doubt anywhere near the same longevity as using big prismatics from know good mfg.

So why spend 5-7x the price of lead on them?
 
Maybe Victron's, apparently some BMS comms available, therefore not drop in anymore?

but too spendy for me.
 
QinReno said:
amorphous
...
good deal larger

apparently do much better in shady and cloudy conditions
much lower watts per roof area

but maybe much more durable, unlike semi-flex can actually flex
 
picopat said:
John61CT - is this flooded lead acid? The cheapest AGM I've found so far is about $150 per 100Ah.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yes Deka FLA GCs.

AGM has much lower lifespan, is more finicky, less robust.

Only use if really necessary.

And then, only recommend Odyssey, Lifetime and Northstar. Call for local supplier, never pay to ship lead if at all possible.
 
John61CT said:
Yes Deka FLA GCs.
Assuming this sort, then an issue, as brought out on the other thread, is that they need periodic maintenance, ie topping off the electrolytes, and then you also need some decent venting to get rid of nominal hydrogen outgassing. Eg, if installed inside a closed van - mine is pretty much waterproof, and currently no holes in the walls or floor.
- https://www.civicsolar.com/product/mk-gc15dt-deka-6v-215ah-wet-battery
 
John61CT said:
much lower watts per roof area

but maybe much more durable,  unlike semi-flex can actually flex
Ah so, that wasn't too much of a pooh-poohing. Calculations indicate area is about 2X for comparable monocrystalline.
 
No the ones I've seen were 25' long and could be rolled up, seemed very durable.

But still being made?
 

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