AGM battery won't take a charge............

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DC Fuse

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I always in the past used Trojan GC batteries but have recently bought my first AGM for use as a back-up for the "House" if i rundown main bank.

In researching these I came across a link that took me to HotRodMagazine.com and it told of how to get a dead AGM that won't take a charge back to life.
Seems these AGMs have a "brain" that is looking for say 12.4+ volts that tells it to take a charge.

The problem is when you run it down to say 12.3volts their is'nt enough juice to awaken that brain.

When this happens start another car and connect jumper cables to dead AGM. Then hook your charger to same dead AGM. Run car for 20-30 minutes w/your charger going too. This will awaken from the dead the AGM.
It then should take and hold a charge.

After reading this I stopped by a GC battery store and asked a guy about this and he confirmed this. He had AGMs he was doing this same teqhnique to to bring back to life.

Happy Trails!
 
What charger are you using?

There is no brain in an AGM battery. If the automatic charging source does not see a minimum voltage, usually 10.5 or above, then it will not attempt to charge the battery.

The reasoning is that a battery drained below 10.5 volts could have a shorted cell, and trying to charge a battery with a shorted cell can be dangerous.

A manual old school charger would have no issues starting the charging cycle with an AGM depleted to a capacity destroying sub 10.5 volts.

I've taken my NorthStar AGM to sub 12 volt levels dozens of times and none of my charging sources have issues starting. The issue in my case is not being able to feed everything my AGM can gobble up, as higher quality AGM batteries require very high amperages to meet the manufacturer recommendations and reach full energy density.

Running a battery charger while the engine is also running might possibly cause issues with the vehicle's electronics.

Any Automatic battery charger might decide not to charge any battery that is below 10.5 volts, flooded, AGM or Gel. The person attempting to charge such a battery with such a charger needs to hook another known good battery in parallel to trick the Automatic charger into starting.

Likewise when an undercharged battery is temporarily above 12.8 volts due to a recently removed or inadequate charging source, the automatic charger might see this 12.8+ volts and decide the battery is already full, and add no more charging current than is required to gold the programmed float voltage. Often when trying to get my Schiumacher to assist my solar when my batteries are low, I'll turn on a bunch of loads until the voltage falls to 12.6, then the Schumacher will start.

The Only batteries with internal "brains", Or BMB, battery management systems, are lithium batteries, as overcharging or over discharging these can have extremely serious consequences.

One thing to note too, is that Automatic battery chargers do not necessarily fully charge a battery, they are designed to NOT overcharge a battery, and they can stop in the 92% range, and often do. The Full charge indicator on a charge is to be taken with a large grain of salt. If A flooded battery, A hydrometer reading will verify. AGM's are harder to know when they are truly fully charged.
 
SternWake, Do you have any knowledge on Trojan 12 volt AGM deep cycle batteries? These are rated @ 140 amp hrs.
Could I expect to get 150-200 amp hrs. of draw from 3 of these?
Would like to get away from wet cell if I could.
Trojans site lists them as part # 12-AGW.
I have 450 watts of solar and a Iota electric charger.
Thanks!
 
http://www.trojanbattery.com/product/12-agm/

Amp hours is a measure of battery capacity
Amps is a component of current. A 5 amp current draw on a battery for 4 hours removes 20 amp hours from the battery.

But a 50 amp draw on a 100 amp hour battery for one hour does not mean the battery is at 50%. Higher amp draws on a battery mean the battery has less overall capacity to give.

This is called the Peukert effect, and is often discounted or ignored when discharging a battery. It is easier to do the math without factoring in Peukert, but it leads to inaccuracy, and the larger the load on the battery the more the inaccuracy.

You should only use half of a batteries capacity, half of 420 amp hours is 210 amp hours.

AGM batteries tend to hold higher voltages under higher loads in comparison to flooded batteries

Trojan recommends a 20% charging current, or 20 amps per 100 amp hours of capacity on their AGM batteries. The battery is not going to fall flat if this current is not initially met, but it is wise to try and meet the manufacturer recommendations.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TRJN0109_UsersGuide.pdf


20% of 420 amp hours is 84 amps. Is your Iota converter the 75 amp or 90 amp version? Plug in chargers should really be sized to meet the manufacturer recommendations of initial bulk current.

84 amps is a lot of solar too. If one figures 100 watts of solar yields about 5 to 6 amps.

There is a tendency for people to get a lot of battery capacity then not have enough charger to come close to manufacturer recommended bulk currents for that battery bank.

Any solar is better than no solar, but small amounts of solar on a large battery bank cannot be looked upon as a proper charging source, if the batteries are cycled each and every night.

The deeper the batteries are cycled, the more important it is that they receive the manufacturer recommended bulk current, and bringing the battery bank upto near 100% before the next discharge cycle will yield better longevity too.

So I recommend people size their battery banks to closer match their available solar, if Solar is to be the primary recharging source.

But if one can plug in a converter charger meeting the specs of the batteries every 10 to 14 cycles, then the solar system can be sized to merely offset the overnight usage, +10%.

AGM batteries are a lot of coin, and in comparison to flooded batteries, are much harder to determine how well they are fairing when cycled often. Dipping A hydrometer is the ultimate way of knowing, and this cannot be done on an AGM, so one is flying blind unless they have a way to measure amp hours out of, and back into a battery.

Voltage is not a good indicator of state of charge, even though many think so. If the battery has not seen any charging or discharging currents for several hours, then voltage can be indicative of state of charge, but not overall battery health.

AGM batteries tend to hold higher voltages under discharge than flooded. So the common held belief that 12.2 volts is 50% is not really accurate on an AGM either

Proper and prompt recharging is paramount to getting a good lifespan from any battery. Come as close to manufacturer recommendations as possible as often as possible, and view any other regimen as detrimental, to some degree or another.

Matching charger capability to battery capacity is wise, but even if everything is perfectly matched, the batteries will at some point fail. trying to prevent premature failure is the goal. Reaching ultimate longevity might be labor intensive and stressful so getting that extra 150 to 500 cycles might not be worth it to some.
 
On behalf of everybody here Thank You! for your thorough, articulate, and very well written posts on this subject.
My Iota charger is i think labled Iota54. On my Trojans it always started charging @ 53 amps. I'll look on model.
I can pull 24-28 amps of solar
on average per hour and since I live in Fl.(that may change) I get great sun so 150 amps per day has been realistic but i realize this is close.
I do carry a Honda Gen.
That Iota is 12 yrs. old at least so i may have to look into that.

Looks like I'm close but on the low end.
Big power hog was Suburban furnace but that approximate amperage will be going to Marine 12 volt cold plate refrigerator so that's a wash.
I'm going for it. I want the experience as that is the future.
P.S. I understood what you said but you are good.

Thanks again!





I nominate SternWake the Grand Poobah of Solar & Batteries here @ the forum.
 
I third that motion, and he explains in plain English which is easy to understand. highdesertranger
 
Looks like i'm going to just use two of those AGMs w/a third one seperated by a Perko switch for emergencies.
I use a Trimetic meter so i was always aware of amp hrs. used, approx. 150 per/day.
This is more matched to existing battery charger (55 amps) and solar(450 watts) capabilities.
Still undecided on refrg. to use.
I installed a dozen 12 volt LED lights, will maybe need a specific reading lite,TV is 3 amps. W/DVD is 5 amps. Looking at using propane for heat (catylitic). So appears the frig. is the remaining issue. I figure i can get my daily use down to around a 100 amp hrs. p/day.

Does this sound right?
 
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