Accidently posted in the Women Only/ Forum split from: Relationships started while Traveling Single.....?

[wb8vyn]

Today, I learned two lessons. First one was that responding to what seemed like an honest comment by a woman who needed reassurance that van life people, husbands and wives (and single men and women) were just like any other neighbor. Need something heavy lifted, there is a burly neighbor for that, need a frilly curtain sewed, there's a neighbor for that. Wrong!!!! my response was deleted it said because only women can respond to women, no matter the topic. This internet is a strange place.
I suspected something was amiss when I saw on Bob Wells YouTube site that there was a separate womens only rubber tramp ronde view. Excuse my spelling.
To my mind, dividing people is a bad thing. Women against men, Black people against white people. Division can't be a good thing. It's more re enforcing fear of difference.
I guess (note guess) no facts, women can be afraid of men. They are grubby, have hair on their faces and just about everywhere else, yuk, They tend to go hunting, killing animals and call it sport, and drink beer and they smell funny too. I have it on good authority they grunt and burp, how uncouth.
Wouldn't it be a better world if you put dresses on them all and make them wear panties.
As you can tell I am pissed. (another man term) Men should be banished forever to Pluto or just done away with entirely.
I read a book just the other week. Turns out that without men there would be no women and without women there would be no men. That can't be right!

 

[RonDean]

Ken,
I've known many ladies that swear, hunt, burp, and go around killing animals for sport far more than I do - or want to, being a vegetarian. Not to mention I am a better cook than many of them. I think it's time to put a lot of that gender stereotyping behind us.

As far as a "Ladies Only" section, I get that too. There have been "ol' boy's clubs" like - forever. And maybe some ladies want to discuss female-specific issues neither you nor I have any business getting involved in - uninvited. And they just might be tired of having things man-splained to them as well.

As far as your comment on us being "needed" for reproduction... that ain't exactly true either. Look up, "parthenogenesis." Asexual female reproduction is not exactly common, but it DOES happen.

And, no, I don't wear panties or dresses. Although, you might find me in an occasional kilt at a Renaissance Fair.

Just saying...

 

[RonDean]

Unfortunately relationships can trap us, especially living this life. A trap is something you're lured into and then can't get out of. The most dangerous time for a woman, and maybe a man too but I don't know those stats, in an abusive relationship is when she's trying to leave it. That's when she's most likely to be killed.

It's very easy for an abuser to isolate, control, and harm their partner living and traveling in a vehicle. There's no friends or family around and a lot of places to go off grid. I'll never forget the guy who would meet women online, get them to travel with him in a RV, and then their families would never hear from them again. The police couldn't do anything because he would say he left them alive in some state and the police couldn't prove otherwise. He was finally convicted and locked up on fraud charges but they never got him for harming the missing women and the women are still missing to this day.

So everyone needs to be careful who they link up with. It's too easy to go missing living this life.

I think I was replying more to the idea that women want to "trap" men. And I certainly wasn't referring to actual physical entrapment either.

As far as the danger of relationships for women, I have to defer to someone that understands the risk far more than I do. By all means, look twice (or 3 times) before jumping.

 

[wb8vyn]

Ken..............it was the "Women's Only Forum"........Give them their space.....Don't post there

As for the OP........I started out a confirmed Single after 40 wonderful years of marriage.....I even removed the passenger seat when I hit the road.....Never Say NEVER !

A year into my Journey........ Paulette and I met after the RTR.........in YARC camp........the rest as they say is History

Nuff said. I'll give them ALL the space. Be better if there was a prominent sign like on the ladies bathroom. Must have missed it. I'm new to this "forum" thing so ignorant of the protocol. I've known that some women would rather be men, in fact I've known that some men would rather be women. How does that work on the "forums"? How do I tell the difference?
My problem is that I have always thought that the rule was Ladies before gentlemen, open doors for ladies, Ladies first, walk on the traffic side of a lady companion, rescue a damsel in distress. Old fashioned? Looks that way. Of course I AM old. Darn It.
Ok, I know not to speak politic or religion. Add don't send messages or responses to women.
If I cross some other boundary just alert me of my transgression. I'll adjust or just disappear if I can't do things right. I don't know what YARC means. I'd ask more but that might be out of bounds too. At any rate, If your happy with your "companion" then I wish you the best. I've only had one biological woman mate in my adult life.
She was happy to have a biological man, Me.. We made two children who have grown and become contributing citizens and made me 6 grand babies. 3 each.
I'll be moving on alone soon. Maybe I'll see you out there, maybe not. Probably will not attempt to rescue any damsels in distress. In this society, one never knows.

 

[Ravella and X]

YARC = You Ain’t Right Club

No need to overreact to a minor correction, now you know to check what forum you’re reading/posting to, ya?

The topic in this thread is about romantic relationships started on the road. As I read the discussion, I begin to think that the word “relationship” is too broad for what folks are really talking about. I have “relationships” with several forum members, but not a romantic, committed thing with a single one of them. It doesn’t mean those relationships aren’t important to me. All of them are, to greater and lesser extents.

There is a subreddit I was reading recently where posters use the word “intimacy” every single time they’re talking about sex. Sex can be intimate or not, and intimacy is a world more.

 

[wb8vyn]

Ken,
I've known many ladies that swear, hunt, burp, and go around killing animals for sport far more than I do - or want to, being a vegetarian. Not to mention I am a better cook than many of them. I think it's time to put a lot of that gender stereotyping behind us.

As far as a "Ladies Only" section, I get that too. There have been "ol' boy's clubs" like - forever. And maybe some ladies want to discuss female-specific issues neither you nor I have any business getting involved in - uninvited. And they just might be tired of having things man-splained to them as well.

As far as your comment on us being "needed" for reproduction... that ain't exactly true either. Look up, "parthenogenesis." Asexual female reproduction is not exactly common, but it DOES happen.

And, no, I don't wear panties or dresses. Although, you might find me in an occasional kilt at a Renaissance Fair.

Just saying...

RonDean
Your mind set is obvious, as is mine.
I'm ok with women having a "space" separate from men. My wife had friends that she got together with without men around. I didn't mind one bit. Some times us guys would get together to have a beer and work on machines with dirt and grease. OK I get it.
Over millions of years, the human races have evolved from hunter/gathers. I personally don't hunt but I know how. I'm not a granola cruncher either. Each to his own for what ever reason.
When I speak of biology, I am thankful for my 6 grand children. The human race will continue.
Mathematically each American female must bear 2.4 children to maintain the current population.
The World Health Organization estimates this planet can support only 10 percent of the current population.
In the not too distant past, It was the law in china that husbands and wives could only have one child, any more babies were removed and starved to death, in a humane way or course. It was expectable by most.
In Egypt, girls are routinely circumcized by family or cutters. Some bleed to death.
In any event, the fad in this country will pass. Tattoos, piercing and clothing stiles come and go. It's only for show any way but some evidence will remain for a life time. Right now tattoos are called body art. In some parts of Africa and India scaring is called body art.
I'll give you that there are exception to every common rule. Very rare.
One major thing that I support is your right to say what you think, believe what you wish, do as you please as long as you don't force me to think and believe as you do.
Freedom is more valuable than gold.

 

[wb8vyn]

YARC = You Ain’t Right Club

No need to overreact to a minor correction, now you know to check what forum you’re reading/posting to, ya?

The topic in this thread is about romantic relationships started on the road. As I read the discussion, I begin to think that the word “relationship” is too broad for what folks are really talking about. I have “relationships” with several forum members, but not a romantic, committed thing with a single one of them. It doesn’t mean those relationships aren’t important to me. All of them are, to greater and lesser extents.

There is a subreddit I was reading recently where posters use the word “intimacy” every single time they’re talking about sex. Sex can be intimate or not, and intimacy is a world more.

Ravella
Now that makes sense to me. An old saying that makes sense to me is "love is not love until you give it away". There is more, total trust is included, total honesty as well. Knowing there is a risk as well. If you give all of that away and it is not returned in like measure, you will end up empty.
Ken

 

[wb8vyn]

Ravella
Now that makes sense to me. An old saying that makes sense to me is "love is not love until you give it away". There is more, total trust is included, total honesty as well. Knowing there is a risk as well. If you give all of that away and it is not returned in like measure, you will end up empty.
Ken

I now see whatcha mean. about the no go forums. Anyway, some guy told me that stereotypes should be behind us. Is being a woman a stereotype. Sorry about that, not going to happen.
I can't put my bald head in pig tails, My legs will still be hairy, and I still have to shave.
Besides all of that, I like what I am. I don't know the right thing to wear and I don't care.
A little dirt in place of sun screen is fine. I carry a wallet not a purse, I like to do manly stuff around women, not the wannabe stereotypes, the real thing.
I'm ready to go tonight into the woods or mountains or desert and not be afraid of things that go bump in the night. I know if I get wet, I'll dry off some time, maybe.
If you run across me out there some where, and I don't move for a day or two, just cover me up with some brush or mud. I'll be just fine.

 

[dhuff]

<snip>
I suspected something was amiss when I saw on Bob Wells YouTube site that there was a separate womens only rubber tramp ronde view. Excuse my spelling.
To my mind, dividing people is a bad thing. Women against men, Black people against white people. Division can't be a good thing. It's more re enforcing fear of difference.
<snip>

Ken, I get it. I think of you as one of "the good guys" (think of myself the same way - I hope it's true for me). But we have to be careful of what I've heard called the "not all men" response.

For one thing, women know this. They don't need us to remind them about "not all men." The discussion isn't about the men who aren't a problem. And while we know we're "good guys" inside our heads, when a woman is walking down the street, or on a blind date, or in an elevator alone, she doesn't know which group you're in. You might be the potential best guy ever, but there's no way for her to know that. See what I mean ?

 

[wb8vyn]

Ken, I get it. I think of you as one of "the good guys" (think of myself the same way - I hope it's true for me). But we have to be careful of what I've heard called the "not all men" response.

For one thing, women know this. They don't need us to remind them about "not all men." The discussion isn't about the men who aren't a problem. And while we know we're "good guys" inside our heads, when a woman is walking down the street, or on a blind date, or in an elevator alone, she doesn't know which group you're in. You might be the potential best guy ever, but there's no way for her to know that. See what I mean ?

If every woman followed that logic, Then fear will rule. That has become a mantra. Watch TV, Bad people, fires, storms, accidents, building collapsing killing thousands, mud slides and avalanches, volcanoes, spewing lava, isonomies. Wear a mask or you'll die, you'll kill everyone. get a shot to replace your immune system for a better one and then get a booster and another with small risk of brain damage or paralysis or sterilization. Oh heck, we're all gonna die.
Being human is risky business. Has been and will continue to be. Bolt your door multiple times, bars on windows, stay inside and pear out through a crack.
For me, I'm going to risk it. Win loose or draw. I am going to be glad that just maybe some woman will have courage and take a look at me. I am going to move about freely, not full of fear of being poisoned or stabbed.
I hope you can see that a huge majority are great people and take the risk to find a companion or mate to enjoy life with. Like puzzle pieces, they don't all fit together but keep searching for one that does.

 

[Sofisintown]

If every woman followed that logic, Then fear will rule. That has become a mantra. Watch TV, Bad people, fires, storms, accidents, building collapsing killing thousands, mud slides and avalanches, volcanoes, spewing lava, isonomies. Wear a mask or you'll die, you'll kill everyone. get a shot to replace your immune system for a better one and then get a booster and another with small risk of brain damage or paralysis or sterilization. Oh heck, we're all gonna die.
Being human is risky business. Has been and will continue to be. Bolt your door multiple times, bars on windows, stay inside and pear out through a crack.
For me, I'm going to risk it. Win loose or draw. I am going to be glad that just maybe some woman will have courage and take a look at me. I am going to move about freely, not full of fear of being poisoned or stabbed.
I hope you can see that a huge majority are great people and take the risk to find a companion or mate to enjoy life with. Like puzzle pieces, they don't all fit together but keep searching for one that does.

For one thing, I love your prose, wb8.You are very eloquent and you should be writing the next best seller.

For another, wait a week before you launch, there's a bad ice storm in the vicinity. (Not fear-mongering here, I just watch the weather, because I'm on the road)

 

[wb8vyn]

For one thing, I love your prose, wb8.You are very eloquent and you should be writing the next best seller.

For another, wait a week before you launch, there's a bad ice storm in the vicinity. (Not fear-mongering here, I just watch the weather, because I'm on the road)

what the heck is prose? I just took a bath the other week so that can't be it.
Also, Where I grew up, spelling and word learning ended at 6th grade. Had one teacher the whole time. (Ms Umbarger). She would spank me real good when I was bad. There were 12 kids in my school. some of them was girls. You could tell because they wore dresses and had long hair.
You are right, the weather is real snotty out there. I know cause I just looked out.
I'm not planning on leaving till I see the farmers smelling and tasting dirt, then ya know.

 

[unaccompaniedsenior]

Ken, I get it. I think of you as one of "the good guys" (think of myself the same way - I hope it's true for me). But we have to be careful of what I've heard called the "not all men" response.

For one thing, women know this. They don't need us to remind them about "not all men." The discussion isn't about the men who aren't a problem. And while we know we're "good guys" inside our heads, when a woman is walking down the street, or on a blind date, or in an elevator alone, she doesn't know which group you're in. You might be the potential best guy ever, but there's no way for her to know that. See what I mean ?

Your remark applies to women as much as to men. Being in the presence of any woman is no longer a safe circumstance for any man today. All it takes is for one of them to claim that they felt uncomfortable, and a fellow can get himself locked up. The safest life for a man today is one without women in it.

Edit: not sure if this ended up posted in the right place. Still, it's the truth.

 

[John in Montreal]

To my mind, dividing people is a bad thing. Women against men, Black people against white people. Division can't be a good thing. It's more re enforcing fear of difference.

Interesting that you would capitalize one group of people but not the other.

 

[Calypso]

Ken, I get it. I think of you as one of "the good guys" (think of myself the same way - I hope it's true for me). But we have to be careful of what I've heard called the "not all men" response.

For one thing, women know this. They don't need us to remind them about "not all men." The discussion isn't about the men who aren't a problem. And while we know we're "good guys" inside our heads, when a woman is walking down the street, or on a blind date, or in an elevator alone, she doesn't know which group you're in. You might be the potential best guy ever, but there's no way for her to know that. See what I mean ?

Very well stated, Dhuff.
Ken, you remind me of my father, also named Ken … he’s 85 and tries his best in the confusion of today. I’m sure he comes off as a curmudgeon at times, or of rigid thinking, but most of his life was in a very different era than now. Things are kind of all over, even my kids who are in college sometimes are confused about all of it.

People today often talk about acceptance and seeing it from their perspective, being open minded and accepting… but we often fail to provide the same respect back to our elders… those who were raised in a different time. My parents listened to the Shadow on the radio on Sunday evenings, and the papers were of figures and bland information, not the opinionated, polarized and solicitousness of todays endless media.

I applaud you Ken for stepping out into todays world and trying to connect using these new methods of forums and such. You are how you are and I do think while we’ve gained more openness and possibilities today, we lost a bit of the clarity the “old fashioned” brand of thinking brought.

We all want to be respected for who we are and how we are, I can tell you have a good heart and well intended, I can see where you are coming from, and how your life and upbringing and experiences have shaped your thinking. I accept and respect that, not that you need it from me, no one needs to answer to anyone else. We can’t force someone to be something else just because we don’t agree with them or it doesn’t fit into our own belief on how people and society should be, nor should we begrudge or belittle them. That applies to you as well, you are who you are, how you are and believe in what you find is true and makes sense for you.

I hope when I am your age (which isn’t too far off) I have the nerve and zeal for life to continue trying to connect to others through unknown means of communication, into waters that I dont understand and my judge me and my ways as barbaric or stilted. I hope I still have the curiosity and gumption to try and learn more, even if it doesn’t make sense to me. I value your views and opinion and understand that they were formed from a very different time as now, they are valid. I’m not going to try and force you to be molded into the form of what is today’s “right”… just like I wouldn’t force someone to remain in their birth gender.

 

[Calypso]

Your remark applies to women as much as to men. Being in the presence of any woman is no longer a safe circumstance for any man today. All it takes is for one of them to claim that they felt uncomfortable, and a fellow can get himself locked up. The safest life for a man today is one without women in it.

Edit: not sure if this ended up posted in the right place. Still, it's the truth.

My son was talking to me about this very thing. It does need to be addressed. I do believe there are more good guys out there than bad, but there’s no way of knowing, so all are treated as a possible threat. It’s been hard on my son, who as the eldest boy of a single Mom and did not a good male role model, is very compassionate and empathic to what women face… he is nervous his good intentions will come across wrong, so he just keeps his distance out of respect. As I teacher I feel for my male counterparts, there is a stigma. I hope we can learn to trust each other more.

 

[PeterPiper]

Interesting that you would capitalize one group of people but not the other.

Keen observation. Does it expose a lean in ones thinking? Possible insight into an otherwise hidden POV ?

 

[wb8vyn]

Interesting that you would capitalize one group of people but not the other.

Stuff running around in my head so fast my fingers couldn't keep up.. Will try to be more careful in the future. The idea that I was intending to express remains unchanged.
When we work together toward a goal, better outcomes result.
John: My dad always told me as a young man, "look and see". Not "look or see".
Your critical observation of my writing means more than a cursory glance took place.
I'm better for it. Thank you

 

[user 22017]

Wrong!!!! my response was deleted it said because only women can respond to women, no matter the topic. This internet is a strange place.
I suspected something was amiss when I saw on Bob Wells YouTube site that there was a separate womens only rubber tramp ronde view. Excuse my spelling.
To my mind, dividing people is a bad thing. Women against men, Black people against white people. Division can't be a good thing. It's more re enforcing fear of difference.

Although I don't post there often, I love that there is a forum for females only. BTW, I have never read anything related to male bashing there. Seems it is more about networking. Or, hair styling=/

 

[wb8vyn]

My son was talking to me about this very thing. It does need to be addressed. I do believe there are more good guys out there than bad, but there’s no way of knowing, so all are treated as a possible threat. It’s been hard on my son, who as the eldest boy of a single Mom and did not a good male role model, is very compassionate and empathic to what women face… he is nervous his good intentions will come across wrong, so he just keeps his distance out of respect. As I teacher I feel for my male counterparts, there is a stigma. I hope we can learn to trust each other more.

I'm going to give a reply to you comment about your son. I'm an older man, a grand pa and soon to be a great grand pa if not already, could be today.
Since my mind becomes cloudy from time to time, do your best to read between the lines a bit.
The male brain has evolved over millions of years, Same for women, all tied together in biological development. Included are environmental lessons that shape mental development from birth.
Chemical switches in male and female can be enhanced or suppressed by daily or even momentary influences. (the environment)
Male and Female babies are better formed, in my opinion by the presence of both fathers and mothers, moment by moment from birth until about age 30.
At the age of puberty, huge changes in chemistry occur in both sexes. The examples learned by observation and experience in the earlier years then fit both young men and women without mental confusion. Little or no conflict between brain/body chemistry and biology.
Historically, Men in general are the greater risk takers. as a result more men do not survive the earlier experiences until age 30 when, generally men become more skilled or more cautious or both.
In those cases when men do not survive, it is left to women to be both examples. In the past, the tribe or family were the examples that provided the lifes template for young adults. The best in those cases were family because the family had time and effort invested in the outcome.
Fast forward to the present. Today we are faced with rapid, world wide transportation.
close nit families are spread over thousands of miles, there is no longer a tribe.
Mothers who for what ever reason, have lost their anchor, are left alone to be both examples.
In an attempt to correct this imbalance, the nanny state has been developed by well meaning adults. Of course that does not work because the state has no personal investment. The state does not care. Even other well meaning individuals do not care.
It's an exercise doomed to fail long term, and it has failed already.
So, what to do about this situation? First my thought is to give it a name in our own individual minds. Call it what it is. Failed adults. I have failed. Then begin to do something about it. Find an anchor for you and your children, first choice family, your mother and father, grand parents. someone stable, go where they are, be close to them. Words will not work, touching, feeling, hearing close. Let nature work.
I don't have any idea what comes next. I'm as lost as the next. But I do know without any doubt, what we are doing now has failed. Any change at all is better than doing nothing.