ac question

[rgs80074]

Hello everyone

I have an ac related question. I have a 1997 dodge ram van b2500 conversion van (its got the 130 or 160amp alternator not the standard 90ish amp one). the van also was abused by the prior owners before i bought her and gave her some tending loving care.

anyways the ac does not work, and repairing the ac system would be expensive, wiring was melted, system was taken apart etc.

i also have the following ac unit
https://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Elec...n-and-LCD-Remote-in-White-LP1017WSR/300422891

what I am wondering is if i can use it in the van with little work to provide the van with ac, as its hot in florida.

i am not talking about running the ac off solar, batteries, or a generator. I want to run it off the vehicle when its on and driving.

the ac does not plug into a cig lighter so i'd need to get an inverter but not sure what size inverter to get or if the vehicle electrical would even handle it with the inverter.

what about adding more wiring (i'd have to hire this out electrical is not my thing) and running it off the vehicles battery or generator.

is either of these possible without spending a lot of money?

thanks

ryan

 

[Wabbit]

You could run it off a generator. Prob want a 2000w.

As to running it off the alternator, my gut says no. You would want to know the alternator is rated at(not guess), and then run some numbers from there. Even then, that's a big load.

 

[DannyB1954]

The spec sheet for that says it takes 1270 Watts. This is when it is running. When it first starts figure at least 1,800 watts, (this is what a standard wall power outlet has. 120 volts x 15 amps = 1,800 watts).
Watts is the voltage times the amperage so 1270 / 12 = 105 amps. With the inverter inefficiencies, figure about 120 amps. The single hose type of portable A/C is not very efficient. The double hose models are much better.
I run a 5,000 btu window air conditioner in my van. It takes about 35 amps at 12 volts when running.
I am not sure if your A/C would be happy running through a modifies sine wave inverter, so you may need the more expensive pure sine wave model and very heavy cables to feed it. You may also need a second battery to help with the surge of the starting current.
In theory it is possible, but it may be cheaper to fix the original A/C. There is only one wire that energizes the compressor clutch. It goes through the low pressure switch so not that complicated, (if the heater fan still works that is).

 

[highdesertranger]

for the price of that AC plus what it's going to cost to run it with invertor, wire, and the other misc. stuff. seems to me you could fix your AC.

that AC you linked to is very inefficient.

highdesertranger

 

[RogerD]

One other thing to keep in mind with portable AC's is that you are now seeing 2 BTU rating.

10,200 BTU (6,500 BTU, DOE)

The DOE rating takes into consideration that it's portable and uses a single vent hose. This is much less efficient compared to a window unit. So it is equivalent to a 6500 BTU window unit.

So it's really 6500 BTU and 1270 watts. That's just insane.

If you need an AC, take a look at the Frigidaire FFRE0533S1 5000 BTU window unit, it's 410 watts. Which was the lowest wattage unit I could find.

 

[C-Cat]

Yes, I concur with the other posters, consider selling your unit and buy one of those 5000 BTU window units and a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter. I think you'll still need a battery bank as a buffer between your alternator and your inverter (2x12 volt AGM batteries in parallel should do the trick). Don't skimp on wire size and fuses... there will be a serious flow of angry pixies (electrons) going through those wires!

 

[rgs80074]

Hello everyone,

thanks for the advise. after posting this the portable unit is probably being returned it was just bought and as using it in the house its not that good. i think a lot of heat escapes back into the place being cooled by the thin exhaust hose.

i was thinking a window unit before but i don't know how to install it into a vehicle window correctly and keep everything sealed and not do damage so i'd have to get someone to install it.

the reason i've been against repairing the ac system is i can't do it myself not sure how much work would be involved but like i said i know the system has been opened a number of times, so its empty and worse yet been exposed to the elements, heck i don't even know if the compressor and such work, it might have just had a leak and everything else is good other than some of the wires but when i bought the van the plug into the compressor had a piece of thin wood it in to keep it in there and it was all charred and such, plus its got the back ac and while i like my van not sure how long i will keep it but if it had ac i'd drive it more than i do. i was hoping for something quick and easy reason i asked about the portable as we just go tit and it seemed easy to do if it would work.

but it sounds like even if i went with that the current alternator would not work, i think it was a 130-135 amp one i think the 160amp was over kill, the base van used like a 94 amp one, i kept the higher one due to it being a conversion van.

again thanks everyone for your advise and input.

 

[DannyB1954]

If you are handy with wood, you can build an enclosure for a window A/C to turn it into a portable. It can also be a heat pump if you make the box with 4 partitions. One of the reasons that a single hose portable A/C is so inefficient is it uses the room air that it just cooled to cool the condenser. It then pushes this hot air outside. Every bit of air that gets pumped out will have to come back in from somewhere, so hot outside air comes in and needs to be cooled. This guy explains it pretty good Condensation is usually not a big problem unless you are running the unit with the windows open. After a few passes through the evap section the inside air will be pretty dry.
In the rear section of the window A/C, there will be a place for air to come in to cool the condenser and a lace for it to blow out. Make the box so that these two areas are separate from each other and have openings that attach to hoses leaving the interior of the vehicle.
You could mount the whole thing under a bed or in a cabinet.

 

[rgs80074]

hello

is there a video or how on the enclosure building?

fyi my van is a conversion van but the only seats in there are the 4 captain sets the bench seat was not with the van when i bought it.

also i don't have it set up for van dwelling or anything like that, i just use it when i need too but during the day its too hot in florida to drive with no ac. if it had working ac i'd drive it more often at least once or twice a week i'd rotate my vehicles so they all at least get driven once a week.

 

[Wabbit]

/\ Have you searched on YouTube? Seems like they have a how to for almost everything!

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

no matter how you do it, getting AC (air conditioning) in a van/rv is never easy or cheap. but yes, it can be done. it sounds like you have decided to send back the portable unit and consider other options. i think that is a wise choice.

probably the best long term solution is to get the factory AC back in service. with melted wires and opened system, you are right to expect a hefty bill. the melted wire issue is going to take some diagnosis to determine why it melted and rectify that situation along with replacing all the melted wire and connectors. best bet since you cant do that your self would be to take it to a reputable shop that does electrical and AC. ask them for an estimate to repair the electrical and AC. the estimate alone could cost $100-200 but then you would find out if just a few hundred more will get your AC working, or if it will break the bank. then you can decide if you want to fix it or follow down the path of some other AC system.

if you decide to install some other AC, a small window unit is probably your best bet. i would think something in the 5000-6000 btu should work ok for you. for power to run it only while driving. i would recommend a quality (not walmart) 1500-2000 watt pure sine inverter mounted directly to the battery and as close to the battery as possible with heavy cables. then run the power cord through the van to the inverter. if you have a window in the back door, that can be the easiest way to mount a window unit to be able to use it while driving.

if you cant mount it in/on the back door then mounting it inside and ducting the different air flows can be a complicated project. probably one of those that if one needs to ask how to do it, it is not something to attempt. but basically you need to duct outside air to the condenser and the the warm air from the condenser to the outside air. and you need to do it so the flow is not restricted or may need to add an additional fan to keep the flow up.

the roadtrek and pleasure way rv's mount their AC's that way so you might check one of those out if you know someone with one.

now on the electrical for running a small window unit. you definitely want a quality pure sine inverter. AC's will run off a decent modified sine inverter but will draw signifgantly more power while running. for example, we were running a 12,000 BTU window unit on a 2300 watt modified sine inverter and when the compressor was running it would draw 1200-1300 watts as read by the "kil-O-watt" meter. when we swapped out to a 3000 watt pure sine inverter from Aims power the AC now only draws 900-1000 watts while the compressor is running.

mount that inverter as close as you can to the starting battery and use an online voltage drop calculator to pick a wire size that gets you close to 1% voltage drop but get under 3% drop for sure. make sure to instal a fuse or breaker between the battery and inverter small enough to protect whatever wire size is connecting the battery to the inverter.  

i would put the biggest rv/marine type battery that will fit in the van. this should be fine to run the smaller window unit. one starting battery will have way more than enough amps to supply the inverter for any surge load and the alternator should be able to keep up. especially since the AC will hopefully cycle. adding an extra battery would not really help. the starting/rv type batteries are designed for dumping large amount of current to the starter. they are way more than capable of doing the same for a lil old AC. you dont need big amounts of storage since the van alternator will be keeping the battery charged. if the alternator cant keep up, no amount of extra batteries will solve that. good practice would be to start the van and let it warm up and recharge the battery a few min before turning on the AC. then also turn off the AC at least a few min before shutting do the engine for good measure.

one caveat is if you use the AC a lot, the extra load on your alternator could possible shorten it's life.

if you have more questions, i am happy to help via PM

 

[tx2sturgis]

The elephant in this room is:

Any 5,000-10,000 BTU portable or window A/C that is low enough BTU to be powered with a typical alternator/battery/inverter is not going to cool the driver of a vehicle while it is in motion, with air blowing thru the vents, and with the driver sitting up near the windshield with solar heat gain on the driver. Plus, it's likely the alternator will not be able to sustain that load and still charge the battery.

Typical automobile A/C systems are in the range of 14,000 to 24,000 BTU and those have vents that blow large volumes of cold air directly onto the driver and passenger, and are capable of cooling them down pretty fast...most of the time.

A portable or window A/C mounted in the back of a fairly large van will not be able to provide cooling comfort for the driver on a hot day with the sun blazing into the windshield, and warm engine air flowing into the dash vents even with the dash blower turned off.

It just aint gonna happen.

I'm all for saving money, but I hate to see money wasted.

What might be confusing the OP, and others, is that, yes, a roof A/C on an RV or conversion van can provide good cooling, but those are normally about 13,500 BTU, they have a loud but powerful blower, and they are almost always powered with shore power or a generator. 

The OP needs to get the factory vehicle A/C fixed, install an aftermarket under-dash A/C, or open all the windows and use misters and fans.

 

[B and C]

^^^ Good advice

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

good advice, i agree a proper engine driven ac would be the best for use while driving. but to say it is the only solution is a little extreme. the cost of the repairs based on the damage mention could be excessive. also the hot weather in florida is very humid but maybe only in the 80's and 90's. the humidity is the big problem. a 5000-6000 btu window unit installed well can make a big dent in bringing the humidity down. and it is not to hard to make a soft duct from the ac unit to the front with sheet plastic to bring the cool air up where it is most useful. i also dont know the OP's tolerance to heat. he does live in florida, and may be accustomed to the heat more than others. simply dropping the humidity and a little lower tmp might be a godsend. hard for me to judge that

sure it is not the best option. but you can get an inverter and airconditioner for a couple hundred bucks. then you also have the option of plugging in the AC at home well before you leave to get the van chilled down. you can also use it plugged in anywhere else you have access to shore power. and you can take it with you if you get another rig. i have used a 5000 btu in a uninsulated van in the florida keys in august. it was a blessing, my sanctuary.

and heck, if he buys the inverter and AC from walmart or amazon he can get his money back if it does not work to his satisfaction

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yes, a small window A/C unit can work in a van or RV that's parked, windows and vents are mostly closed, and the occupant is sitting or sleeping in the interior...heck I've done that myself!

Just to be clear, I'm referring to trying to cool the driver while he (or she) is sitting in the drivers seat, the vehicle is in motion, on a hot day, the driver is being blasted thru the front and side glass by the suns IR and UV rays and the little A/C unit back there wafting a cool breeze into the shaded, insulated, enclosed rear area.

A 5000 BTU window unit mounted somewhere in the back aint gonna do squat for the driver. 

When a van is being driven on a hot day, on hot pavement, with a hot engine right in front of you, the BTU required to cool the driver and interior is a LOT more than a 5k or even a 10k unit will provide. 

Most vehicles are designed to constantly pass fresh air thru the cabin as you drive, even if the dash blower is off. On a hot day, this fresh air will be HOT fresh air. The air passes thru and is exhausted thru vents somewhere in the rear of the cabin. This means the incoming hot air will be removing the cool air. Placing the factory HVAC control in 'recirc' position might help contain some interior cool air, assuming that ALL the relevant HVAC blend doors close off completely. Since the factory A/C has been damaged or otherwise in-operative, we cant even assume the blend doors are all working well. Also, the interior heater cores on some vehicles, controlled by a valve and/or blend doors, is often hot on some vehicles even when the HVAC is not calling for heat in the cabin.

Now if we can hook up to shore power for a few hours before a trip, and 'pre-cool' the interior, then there might be some residual cooling effect for short drives. Maybe.

But hey, I'm willing to see what the results are for the OP if they try it.

I'm not against experimenting, especially with other peoples money!  

:angel:

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

i am sorry, i am not here to get in a pi$$ing match. i beg to differ and i shared my points and possibilities so the OP could explore the options and make their own decision. i agreed you shared some good insight and information. i just dont agree that that is the only answer. i leave that decision to the person contemplating the project

 

[tx2sturgis]

No disrespect was intended, it's not a contest. My goal is to help the OP make a good financial decision.

I could just state: It wont work.

But I assumed providing my opinions about why it wont work might help the OP.

That is the reason for the long explanations. And, of course, it might work well in milder climates with a much smaller interior volume to cool.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I will say it, it will not work. I say this from first hand experience. the sun load is to great, you need that cold air blowing right on you. once I installed an aftermarket engine driven AC in a truck I put it behind the front seat. it worked fine as long as you where parked in the shade, but as soon as the sun hit the windows and me as the driver forget it. this was a 20,000 BTU unit. highdesertranger

 

[rgs80074]

hello everyone,

didn't mean to start any arguments.

i was looking for a reason to keep the portal unit but after the first set of responses it seemed pointless to try and it was return.

i don't have the money to do much or really with everything going on anything with an older vehicle like that and not sure how long it has left, i don't use it a lot that its worth putting the money into fixing the ac system.

as for being able to take the heat, no i can't florida is not the place for me honestly but its where i work, have immediate family and have both a house and trailer.

i have a whole list of things i need to get fixed and the van is a low low priority. its been a good van bought it dirt cheap cause the dealer thought they was pulling a fast one on me selling me a vehicle with a failing transmission. i think their mechanic was looking at purchasing it for next to nothing and i beat him to it and he couldn't tell them the stuff he told them that was wrong really wasn't.

yes the transmission leaked and there was a whining noise that they said was the transmission, it was the power steering pump, the trans cooling lines was not secured into the radiator so it was leaking.

but really the biggest problem that van had when i bought it was the water leaks

van cost me about 900 after the price, taxes, title, tag etc

since owning the van i've had to do a few things to it
replaced pretty much every water hose there was as fix one another would leak
alternator
cat converter
think i did rotors and pads
break lines, calipers
a temp sensor
thermostat
water temp sensor

and thats pretty much it not bad for a cheap van i am certain was abused very hard, i've had it for 4 years now, but i don't drive it hard either, maybe once every couple of weeks but other than an oil change and radiator fluid change i'd have no problem getting in the vehicle and drive across the country.

its my vehicle i use when i need to get something i can't fit in the kia soul or grand cherokee (of course thats out of commission until i get some repairs done so i can take it in to do repairs i do't want to mess with, it also don't have working at)

so i'll just get a big window unit or something when the zpm's are released to power everything.

ryan

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

well, at least you are making an informed decision. you have received some very good information, and some strong opinions. do what you can to expand on the positive aspects of the window unit and negate or lessen the negative aspects.

once you get it mounted/installed/running, one of the biggest improvements you can do is to duct the cold air output from the unit up to where you want to feel it. a simple thing to do, is make a "tube" from plastic sheeting. like the plastic sheeting/tarp they sell at the hardware stores to cover furniture and such while painting. tape one end over the output vents. then suspend the tube from the roof with tape and have the output right behind your seat.

not only will this get the cool air right to where you want it. but it will also improve the actual over all efficiency of the unit by preventing the ac from sucking the cold air right back into the system.

will it be enough? only you can be the judge of that.

anything you can do to help keep the van cool before driving will help as well. parking in the shade. using an extension cord to run the ac for an hour or so before you need to leave may help bring the temp down before hand.

hope you will share how it turns out

good luck