A smart way to build... the Minimum Viable Build (MVB) Method

[sting]

Building a van can be confusing and expensive. I'm hoping this will help ease that for some. The Minimum Viable Build (MVB) Method simplifies it, helping you get it right by revealing what you need and where you need it. It gets you on the road quicker with less stress, less weight, more space - and more cash left in your pocket.

 

[frater secessus]

Pretty much what people did before the onslaught of hashtag-vanlife.

 

[scaredycat72]

Pretty much what people did before the onslaught of hashtag-vanlife.

Yep. I don't know what happened to grabbing a sleeping bag and a duffel bag of clothes and hitting the road but it needs to come back. People are talking about investing 10s of thousands and selling their homes because #vanlife looks good on Instagram and YouTube. They've never even slept in their driveway, let alone had the experience of maintaining a vehicle they live in on the road or living in a limited space. I know everybody isn't me so hopefully it works out for them but I couldn't do it.

 

[user 22017]

Yep. I don't know what happened to grabbing a sleeping bag and a duffel bag of clothes and hitting the road but it needs to come back. People are talking about investing 10s of thousands and selling their homes because #vanlife looks good on Instagram and YouTube. They've never even slept in their driveway, let alone had the experience of maintaining a vehicle they live in on the road or living in a limited space. I know everybody isn't me so hopefully it works out for them but I couldn't do it.

Aside from the ones making vids just for the income, I understand why people put so much time and energy into their builds. I've decided to try camping old school. Like I did with my kids 20+ years ago. Sleeping bags, a couple lawn chairs, some wood, a cooler, tent and one large container that held almost everything else. Down the road, I may want/need more comforts.

However, I can completely understand having fun creating your own new home. They can take pride in their creation and feel comfortable. Moving out of a sticks and bricks can be bittersweet and these elaborate van builds may pale in comparison to the homes they once had. So, I understand the drive and purpose in building a home in whatever your rig is.

As far as not doing it, before living it, I think most have done their homework. We didn't have the internet and youtube in the '70's. Information is one of the blessings of the internet. They can learn as they go, too.

 

[scaredycat72]

Aside from the ones making vids just for the income, I understand why people put so much time and energy into their builds. I've decided to try camping old school. Like I did with my kids 20+ years ago. Sleeping bags, a couple lawn chairs, some wood, a cooler, tent and one large container that held almost everything else. Down the road, I may want/need more comforts.

However, I can completely understand having fun creating your own new home. They can take pride in their creation and feel comfortable. Moving out of a sticks and bricks can be bittersweet and these elaborate van builds may pale in comparison to the homes they once had. So, I understand the drive and purpose in building a home in whatever your rig is.

As far as not doing it, before living it, I think most have done their homework. We didn't have the internet and youtube in the '70's. Information is one of the blessings of the internet. They can learn as they go, too.

Information is awesome but it doesn't equal experience. It's hard for someone to know if they're going to be able to deal with life in a vehicle just by looking at other people showing their best moments in their vehicle. Vanlife is still regular life - with the additional pros and cons specific to living in a vehicle - and some people don't seem to be grasping that fact. I'm in a vanlife sell group and I'm seeing people spending more time on their build than they spend on the road before they put the van up for sell. In my vanlife help groups, I'm seeing people spend too much money building out a crappy van, hitting the road, and not having any money to get that crappy van fixed when it breaks down or to grab a room somewhere when it breaks down. Add in accidents and fires, which happen more than you think, and some people are just not doing their homework.

 

[user 22017]

...I'm seeing people spend too much money building out a crappy van, hitting the road, and not having any money to get that crappy van fixed when it breaks down or to grab a room somewhere when it breaks down. Add in accidents and fires, which happen more than you think, and some people are just not doing their homework.

Good point. Everyone needs an emergency fund. Maybe that is the most important advice to anyone planning on living out of a vehicle. At least $3,000.00.

 

[Night_Sailor]

I think it is a long video that could be summed up in 30 seconds. I've done simple, a K5 Blazer with rear seat removed and a futon in the back, and have camped in cities and far in the bush. I've also set up a truck camper to provide power (830 W of solar) enough to run an electric blanket. I lived in that most of 2 years while remodeling two homes and covering 25,000 miles. People can decide how much effort to put into building something. I wanted mostly heat in cold weather. I find propane to be a problem as it does not last long. The electric blanket worked to provide heat with about the same power consumption while reducing propane use. I don't use the furnance unless temps are freezing and below, or for a quick warm up. My goal was to eliminate propance use, or cut it down dramatically. I have not quite gotten things set up the way I want, but it is a matter of choice at this point. I am leaning towards living on my sailing yacht for the future.

 

[dhuff]

I think it is a long video that could be summed up in 30 seconds. --Night_Sailor

True, it was on the long side. I hope he gets into the "meat" of the topic in subsequent videos as it's an important and interesting way of thinking about van builds. Youtube does seem to reward content that goes on longer than it really needs to. But I've subscribed to his channel for now hoping it get more succinct and to-the-point

 

[afblangley]

I understand why people put so much time and energy into their builds. I've decided to try camping old school. Like I did with my kids 20+ years ago. Sleeping bags, a couple lawn chairs, some wood, a cooler, tent and one large container that held almost everything else. Down the road, I may want/need more comforts.

Minimum Viable Build isn't about "roughing it," unless you want to. It's about getting started and figuring out what you really want based on the experience you gain. MVB is really about bringing the dream to fruition.

Watching van builds on YouTube, it's easy to create a list "must have"amenities, that a few months experience on the road would teach otherwise. Example: I have no insulation and no solar; that's van life heresy, but 9 months and 25,000 miles later, I haven't missed it.

I've never like camping, perhaps because I don't find being uncomfortable fun. Fortunately, most amenities have inexpensive incarnations. Achieving comfort does not require spending great sums of money or time, unless you want to do so.

 

[jacqueg]

Watching van builds on YouTube, it's easy to create a list "must have"amenities, that a few months experience on the road would teach otherwise. Example: I have no insulation and no solar; that's van life heresy, but 9 months and 25,000 miles later, I haven't missed it.

I have solar, because I decided I needed a refrigerator after traveling without one for 6 months.

No insulation though - going on my third year, and still don't think I need it.

It's all about YOUR experience. Camp for a while in the vehicle you have with the stuff you have. It's the best way to learn about what YOU need.

 

[user 22017]

Minimum Viable Build isn't about "roughing it," unless you want to.

Example: I have no insulation and no solar; that's van life heresy, but 9 months and 25,000 miles later, I haven't missed it.

I've never like camping, perhaps because I don't find being uncomfortable fun.

Yeah, I just said, "I've decided to try camping old school. Like I did with my kids 20+ years ago." Nothing about roughing it

To me, roughing it is primitive camping where you bring everything you need for x number of days/weeks on your back. I will have a truck with a shell, in case it rains or I am too tired to set up my tent.

I won't have insulation (by choice), but hope to buy a flexible solar panel someday. Haven't figured out power yet, because I only recently learned that power stations (Eg. Jackery) die at some point. Someone posted about using 2 trolling motor batteries and now I want to learn more.

I want to force myself to tent camp to see if I can do it at my age and with my health conditions. Plus, I only have a shell until I sell my house and I have no idea when that will be. Not really trying right now, for many reasons. Since it is only a shell, I know I'll want a place to stand up in and sit at a table. So I'm going to buy an instant tent. Probably a Coleman.

I've been trying to find websites about seniors camping. Found a couple that had info about things I hadn't thought of. Like making sure the bed/cot isn't too low to the ground. Same with the toilet. Try to find one the same height as a standard toilet.

It was the elaborate van builds on youtube that prompted me to try this approach.

 

[JDub]

I'm not going the van route, I already have everything I really need between the Jeep GC and the RV tent. It's very comfortable. Between the two, I have both generated and renewable power, hot water, a shower, heat, cooking facilities, refrigeration, and AC ( the Jeep's), a comfy cot, and plenty of space in the attached tent. It's optimized for S.E. camping though (I don't stealthpark in cities - an occasional night at a truck stop or at a hotel is about it outside of campgrounds and N.F.'s). It's all non permanent and modular according to what I'm going to need.

It's not a great setup for the spaces (and wind) out West though. For that, I've been saving for a larger sized teardrop camp trailer - the kind that's large enough to have a queen sized bed that converts to a dinette and the galley and water closet inside vs out. Plus built in heat and AC which can be run by my dual fuel gennie. I was planning to get it last year but the prices went KooKoo so I'm waiting for them to drop again - I'm already seeing downward movement - too many people finding out that maybe it's not for them...

The trailer will have everything to be comfortable and I'll still have a detachable tow vehicle to run around in that won't stand out like a large van or be easily ID'd as someone's home. I also won't get hastled at some campgrounds about "not being a real RV" which I've seen is on the rise in many places (sadly). Having a home base really helps here (I know many folks don't have that available) to store stuff and be able to repair, modify, and reconfigure things as you need to...

Cheers!

 

[eDJ_]

This is how I got into it in the 70's and my Dad in the early 60's when Van's entered the automotive market. VW Camper Van's were the guiding light for many. I've since been an advocate for the "basic build" as an entry level or to nice weather folks who are beginning to advance into Nomad life. Several years ago I produced the first website in my signature lines below. Where I had talked about it on other message boards it began to draw interest and after answering questions constantly I just put the info into a site. (Van Conversion) In my own view, it starts with a 1/2 inch plywood floor cover and then your choice of carpet or vinyl covering. You can build from there to suit yourself. The real beauty of it is you could pull everything out if you need it for a cargo Van to move furniture or equipment....and then with little effort put the camping/traveling gear back in it. So if you have a job where you would use it in our work thru the week it could be a cargo hauler and within a few minutes after work on Friday it can become a Camper.

 

[bullfrog]

There is no one perfect solution that works over a long period of time. Maybe for up to a few years. My first extended period not living in a house was in a tent. Then a whole range of living arrangements including a house over 70 years. Finding solutions and adapting to changes in life is difficult when the problem is not enough stuff, not enough room or not enough weight capacity. Many of these problems can’t be solved without changing your lifestyle. Many are much easier to solve with lots of resources which hopefully you find here in the forums. One thing for sure is most likely things will change over time so the simpler you can make your life the easier it will be. If you are able to live happily out of a backpack, carry everything you need to stay comfortable and dry to sleep, have food when your hungry and stay healthy and clean you are doing well and should start getting ready for the next change to happen! Lol!!!

 

[user 29855]

The first and foremost question is, are you planning live live in your conversion, or just camp in it from time to time?
Obviously, making your conversion a permanent home requires some thought, and I agree completely that a few trial trips will help. I have a very minimal conversion, and it has served me well for over 5 years. I can live without many of the "necessities" that plague others, some of which I never thought I could give up.

 

[sdbpost]

Yeah, I just said, "I've decided to try camping old school. Like I did with my kids 20+ years ago." Nothing about roughing it

To me, roughing it is primitive camping where you bring everything you need for x number of days/weeks on your back. I will have a truck with a shell, in case it rains or I am too tired to set up my tent.

I won't have insulation (by choice), but hope to buy a flexible solar panel someday. Haven't figured out power yet, because I only recently learned that power stations (Eg. Jackery) die at some point. Someone posted about using 2 trolling motor batteries and now I want to learn more.

I want to force myself to tent camp to see if I can do it at my age and with my health conditions. Plus, I only have a shell until I sell my house and I have no idea when that will be. Not really trying right now, for many reasons. Since it is only a shell, I know I'll want a place to stand up in and sit at a table. So I'm going to buy an instant tent. Probably a Coleman.

I've been trying to find websites about seniors camping. Found a couple that had info about things I hadn't thought of. Like making sure the bed/cot isn't too low to the ground. Same with the toilet. Try to find one the same height as a standard toilet.

It was the elaborate van builds on youtube that prompted me to try this approach.

I noticed your comment about power stations dying at some point. That probably refers to the battery life. All these batteries slowly lose capacity as they are used. Jackery and some other brands use a type of battery (Li-ion NMC) that claim a cycle life (empty to full and back down) of about 500 times. The battery isn't even dead at that point, just down to about 80% of it's original capacity. And using it down to half charge before recharging it only counts for about half a cycle. Unless you are draining and recharging it daily a Jackery will last for many years. Most other brands use LiFePO4 batteries that usually claim cycle lives of over 2000. There's really no need to wait or forget about a power station. The benefit of having everything in one small box in your van is huge! You don't have to separately buy the battery, a solar charger, and an AC inverter, and then figure out how to wire it all together. A large RV needing over 1500w for AC and kitchen appliances is a different story. The trolling batteries can be cheaper, but remember those and other deep cycle wet batteries lose capacity over time too. They are also larger and heavier than lithium batteries and may require ventilation.

 

[user 22017]

The battery isn't even dead at that point, just down to about 80% of it's original capacity. And using it down to half charge before recharging it only counts for about half a cycle. Unless you are draining and recharging it daily a Jackery will last for many years. Most other brands use LiFePO4 batteries that usually claim cycle lives of over 2000.

Thank you for explaining. Last night I did a search for life expectancy of power stations and was still puzzled. Found one page that had charts in which a jackery 1000 only lasts a year (if you did full cycles daily). That must be the 80% thing? Here is the page:

https://bestgeneratorsolar.com/how-long-will-a-solar-generator-last/

 

[rruff]

Minimum Viable Build isn't about "roughing it," unless you want to. I've never like camping, perhaps because I don't find being uncomfortable fun. Fortunately, most amenities have inexpensive incarnations. Achieving comfort does not require spending great sums of money or time, unless you want to do so.

I'm curious what you all think is comfortable and uncomfortable? I guess I love being in remote places in nature so much that I have a high tolerance... and really I like the simplicity more than having stuff that requires attention. Simple is more relaxing for me.

One thing that really helps with a minimal build is traveling to pleasant climates, which is easy to do in the west. When it's sunny out it's nice to do everything outside. It's easy to deal with cold (but not too cold) nights by insulating and heating your body. A sunshower works great for washing dishes or yourself. Cook outdoors on a propane stove. The toilet is outdoors too. I started with a cooler, but got rid of it and just ate foods that didn't require refrigeration, and it was fine.

Inside for nights and rare rainy days, have a place to sit, a place to sleep, a place to cook. Have a solar panel and batteries for your electronic needs.

"If you didn't have so much GD stuff, you wouldn't need a house! You could just walk around all the time!" Amen!

 

[afblangley]

Thank you for explaining. Last night I did a search for life expectancy of power stations and was still puzzled.

It may help to think of battery life cycles as being like a vehicle's MPG. Your actual MPG is dependent on how much your foot weighs, type of driving you do (highway vs city), weather conditions, etc. so your results will likely be different than what's on the sticker. MPG is really only useful for comparing one vehicle vs another. The same is true for battery life. Your actual degradation is dependent on how you actually charge and discharge the battery (ie. # times, fast vs slow charging), how you care for it (ie. temperature, depth of discharge), and your threshold of what amount of power is insufficient. Life cycle isn't useful as a predictor of actual experience, but it is useful as a comparison tool.

Most of the power stations made by Jackery, Goal Zero, and EcoFlow use a chemistry that results in noticeable degradation within 500-800 life cycles. Most Bluetti stations have life cycles > 2500. For folks that use their power station occasionally or only a small fraction of available power may never feel the difference. Using two life cycles a week, it would take 5 years to lose 20% on the worst chemistry. If your power demand is low, you may not notice until it drops below your needs.

When our cell phones start to age, they don't last as long before needing to be recharged. Most of us notice this change. I think most folks will have power station use cases that will expose the difference between a 500 vs 2500 life cycle battery.

Life cycles isn't the only criteria for choosing a battery. There are other variables like the selection of ports, size of inverter, time/rate of charging, dimensions and weight, efficiency, bluetooth or wifi integration.

 

[user 22017]

Most of the power stations made by Jackery, Goal Zero, and EcoFlow use a chemistry that results in noticeable degradation within 500-800 life cycles. Most Bluetti stations have life cycles > 2500.

Are you saying that the numbers on that page are not indicative of how long power stations last when based on actual usage? I mean, do the $1,000 power stations last a lot longer than 1.88 years? They last many years longer if you only need them to charge cell phones and lights? But if you use them to charge a frig & TV plus the other small things and daily run to max allowed, then the numbers are accurate?

I'd love to have one. They are very convenient and solar is cheap electricity, but I'm trying to understand if the $1,000 ones only last a couple years.