A question on the design impact on mpg of custom shell

[swlands]

The link to build your own camper on this site impressed me as a great way to go as I think I need 4 x 4 for where I want to go. I hope not to need that - I am excited about wilderness, not 4 x 4. But better to have it since I expect to be out there on my own. 

On that build the shell width keeps to the bed width and has a raked cabover. On insert campers they spill to the width of the actual vehicle, which will add wind resistance. 

My question is what impact would the wider shell have on mpg? The shell would be approx 12" wider overall.

I imagine weight is a bigger factor until you go over 65, and I am doing this to keep the weight off. 

I am thinking of putting it on an F150 XL 4x4. One day. Just making plans, and doing a LOT of thinking for now.

At 6 ft 1" I might get away with sleeping sideways at a level above the truck bed walls. But if that would cause a big drop in mpg I could drop the bed lengthwise onto a wheel well.

 

[highdesertranger]

couple of points,

wind resistance starts to be a factor at 45mph the more above 45 the more it becomes a factor. above 55 it starts to be a major factor.

the wider shell would have a huge impact on MPG. a lot more drag.

the truck in the picture is an older F-150. I would do some serious soul searching as far as putting a plywood and 2x4 homemade shell on a newer F-150. I wouldn't even consider it an option. of course I would never use 2x4's in a build.

just having a 4x4 is going to put a serious dent in your MPG.

highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

The bigger the engine the less it will affect the fuel mileage (for a given amount of flat surface) and you can always add angled or curved wind deflectors to the flat forward-facing surfaces. 

That's what I did. Seems to help a little bit. 

You might sacrifice 1 or 2 mpg for a 'wide body' camper, but if you gain a lot of interior room and comfort, it is probably worth it.

 

[bullfrog]

On my 2013 4 cylinder Tacoma above 50 MPH it made a 5MPG difference dropping from 20 MPG to 15 MPG. My 1978 Jeep J10 with the 360 cubic inch V8 about 2 MPG at any speed with almost 3' above the cab and 8" out the sides of flat surface dropping from 11 MPG to 9 MPG. The answer is yes it will but how much will depend a lot on the speed you drive, the motor size and gearing as well as wind resistance. Our old 1968 Chevy camper special with a couch in the camper over the cab (flat front, triple decker 11 1/2 foot fully self contained camper, fully loaded) would drop from 12 MPG to 7 MPG in a head wind at 65 MPH. It seems to me on larger trucks with V8 motors geared to haul heavy weights the mpg will stay pretty much the same until you get close to half their hauling capacity and you will see 2 MPG to 5 MPG loss over 50 MPH with any extra wind resistance. Some smaller trucks get worse fuel economy even with a wedge shaped topper while larger trucks sometimes improve their fuel economy with a less than cab sized topper. There was a guy here that built a cargo trailer with a hard sided slide out sleeping pod, basically you could make a drawer on one side to for your feet with a weather tight storage door that hinged up to cover the drawer when opened while sleeping if the bed is the only space concern. Take a look at the Teardrops and Tiny Trailers website in the foamies section for strong lightweight camper builds as there are some Toyotas that have really light weight toppers there.

 

[MrNoodly]

Perhaps the question should be how much a narrower shell will impact comfort and functionality. And are those things less than or greater than the cost of decreased mileage?

 

[swlands]

OK... that all sounds like good feed back. The truck in the picture claimed it was a lot lighter than a slide in, and I would rather do a van than a truck and slide in. I just want to get myself in the wilderness for a while - I want to get some backpacking in as well. And see how I like living in a vehicle. With that experience I can decide if I want to keep nomading or stay where I am, which is a very comfortable and sustainable situation but I have been here 15 years with no choice. Soon I will have the choice... And this life looks like a kick.

FWIW I have a ton of wilderness time in NZ in the 60's and 70's, worked as a botanist and then forester running around in Toymota SR5 2wd that got stuck all the time but were so light I could always dig them out with a few branches for traction. I never had a winch, I have never used one. I did have 2 way radio, but if I asked for help everyone on the forest would hear it and I would have never heard the end of it lol. Matter of pride.

American trucks are heavier, and I will have my stuff on there. I know nothing about 4wd. I have never been in US wilderness. I will be going alone, not too proud to ask for help any more, but the US is a LOT bigger than NZ. And who uses radio any more? For the real wilderness we flew in choppers and had food drops and hunted our protein. We would be out for months and I loved it. I am done with all of that - I just want wilderness with mountains, forests, streams, lakes, maybe coastline. I am too old to do heroics.

Probably I should do an F250 2 wd and get appropriate tires? Throw in a winch? What do you hook the other end to? Do they have dirt anchors that act like a deadman? Or is a shovel and a couple traction boards how it is done?

As to the build I did look at the TnTTT forum (I saw someone mention them) and looked a little at the foamies they build there. I would be more willing if I could kick the tires on one to understand their strengths. I like the idea of a canvas finish - but that is just an aesthetic.

Fiberglass is not light, and I think gets weaker under constant strain and I am not willing.

Hence me thinking a plywood structure was as good as anything. And it is fast and cheap to knock out. Doesn't have to be 2x4 except for the cabover and bed rails. That is where the stress will hit, where the strength is needed.

Ready made shells don't do cabovers that I know of.

I would do portable solar, stow them over the cab, along with backpacking gear and nothing too heavy.

I don't have to be able to stand in the bed, but I do need to be able to sit easily, and cook if I am not in the wilderness. I will take a couple tents - a size I can stand in and a light backpack job.

And I want it simple, and maybe stealthable. Roof tents are not stealthy don't really appeal.

I wonder if that expansion could be flared back 6" or so to ease the wind resistance. That could be OK, just makes the bed a regular twin width.

Yes - mpg is going to take a hit. Your comments were very helpful.

 

[bullfrog]

Depending on your location and with your experience I think you would do fine on most BLM roads with a 3/4 ton two wheel drive with a locker in the rear differential and some really good mud tires on the rear with a 12 volt air compressor to pump them back up when you get back to pavement. There are plenty of remote places with passable roads when they are dry you will be able to get to. A good wench and an anchor (Pull Pal) will cost almost if not more than a second means of transportation like an electric bicycle or small trail bike. Foam is so much lighter, stronger and easier to work with. Make yourself a few test pieces or build a custom cooler cover it with glue canvas and paint then start putting weight on it or try to put a hole in it with a hammer. If you do hole it see how easy it is to repair. You can use 1" studs and 1/4" plywood and do the glue, canvas and paint and make it as strong as much thicker plywood. I used cheap interior doors which work as long as they never get wet or have standing water on them for long periods of time (I would use 1/4" plywood on the top) and wooden dowels to join them covered this way and it has lasted several years and cost less than $500 to build. Send me a PM as I have one in Utah and one in Arizona if you want to look.

 

[user 22017]

OK... that all sounds like good feed back. The truck in the picture claimed it was a lot lighter than a slide in, and I would rather do a van than a truck and slide in. I just want to get myself in the wilderness for a while -

You might like Callen campers. Do an image search. They have small cab overs for storage, but they are not slide in campers (they use clamps).

I love them, but they are pricey. I see them on craigslist sometimes, but usually on the west coast. They are made in (or near) San Diego, CA.

 

[highdesertranger]

ok more info I like it,

you won't be driving in true wilderness.  there are many areas where you can drive on the border of wilderness but never in it.
there are basically 2 types of dirt roads improved and unimproved.

improved dirt roads can be driven with any type of vehicle 2wd or 4wd.  but if you get caught in the backcountry during bad weather and the road gets washed out well that's a different story.  in some areas it could take months even years to repair the damage.  this is when a 4x4 comes in real handy.

unimproved roads can be in almost any condition from great to terrible.  4x4 is not mandatory but highly recommended.  in some areas 4x4 is a must.  check this out,



so there you go I drive 4x4's.  I wouldn't even think of driving a 2wd into the back country.  with a 2wd you can go everywhere that everybody goes,  add 4wd and you can get away from the tourists.

owning and using a winch is a whole thread in itself.  I would start a new thread on that.

highdesertranger

 

[swlands]

You might like Callen campers. Do an image search. They have small cab overs for storage, but they are not slide in campers (they use clamps).

I love them, but they are pricey. I see them on craigslist sometimes, but usually on the west coast. They are made in (or near) San Diego, CA.

That is exactly what I had in mind, actually. I live in Oakland, so not so far.  Definitely on the list. I just ran a craigslist all over the bay area, down around LA into San Diego and did not find anything in the last 5 minutes.

It is too soon yet, anyway. I am doing the discovery of options part, and the plans will flow out of that. I still think I want 4 x 4 on this first adventure. I am throwing some budgety numbers around as I could, if I wanted and when the time comes, do the whole thing off a dealers floor. But that just cuts into what I have to live off - I can't throw money away. I am thinking I will sell whatever I build after I realize what it is I am doing - I am a slow learner, have to get face and hands dirty.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Have you thought about a Durashell or Tufport on a 4x4 pickup?

You want a cabover design that wont disintegrate on rough roads, this might be it:

https://www.worktrucksolutions.net/durashell-335-385

https://www.tufport.com/products

They are not cheap.

 

[swlands]

Hmmmm. They are both slide ins, both fibreglass. That adds weight right there. Thank you for the pointer, though. My thinking is they may be candidates on the second build I do after I get some experience. Tufport is Canadian - I have no idea about import duties etc.

I still think I want just a basic slap it together rig to get my head in the game. But I want to get it as good as I can. I may get it good enough right from the start.

There is a CRVL article on Tufport here https://www.cheaprvliving.com/uncat...dventure-rig-toyota-tacoma-fiberglass-camper/

 

[highdesertranger]

if you drive off road whatever you do don't use those cheesy clamps to hold your shell on. bolt it on. highdesertranger

 

[swlands]

I did some more web surfing and I see Callen Campers went through a bad spell, not sure how they are now. One afflicted customer ended up buying from Bel-Air http://belairshells.com/wood-n-alum

They are listing prices for a cabover camper between $3K and $3.5. However they are not as strong - they don't hold up to the vibration on dirt roads.

Also they have to install it at their location in Garden Grove, CA. They won't ship.

Of interest they also offer to install on a leased vehicle and buy the shell back at the end of the lease.
From their website:

[font=Georgia, serif]We at Bel-Air Shells are noticing that quite a few of our customers are leasing their trucks.   It only make since that we figure out how to make our sales of products attractive to our customers.   Currently a quality camper shell costs between $1,100.00 and $2,000.00.  We will guarantee to buy it back from you at resale market value when your done with it.  All you need to do is mention this program at the time you purchase your shell or accessorie.  We will note it on your sales reciept and thats it. Enjoy the shell or any other accessorie from us. When your done we will buy it back.[/font]
[font=Georgia, serif]Would the average person buy a $1400.00 camper shell when in 3-years it will no longer be needed.[/font]
[font=Georgia, serif]                            I'm thinking NO.[/font]
[font=Georgia, serif]    We make it easy to take us up on this offer[/font]

It seems to me these camper shell builders are small businesses that can disappear if the owner loses focus. The product is probably OK, but you need to own it as in I wouldn't rely on them being there when you need them. It is what it is.

The guy that had trouble with Callen bought one from Bel-Air that was cabover and 48" tall with rack and a couple vents weighed around 800lb cost him $2600 over 10 years ago.

HDR: I would never trust clamps on a shell. I would bolt it on myself if they didn't. But thanks for looking out for me.

 

[tx2sturgis]

+1 for bolting the shell/topper/canopy/cap whatever you want to call it. 

Mine is bolted on.

BTW, the BelAir caps look flimsy to me...probably OK if staying on pavement.

They look like they would fall apart on rough roads. Just sayin.

 

[DLTooley]

Driving less is the best way to save gas. A bigger rig can store more. Planning your trip in short legs and staying parked longer also helps

I use a canopy, sleeping inside but otherwise living out. Bad weather is a pain and it’s not stealthy, but those are things to avoid anyway.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have dealt with Bel-Air before. they are really good to deal with. however like Texas said the wood and aluminum ones don't hold well off road, and it's just not theirs. the wood and aluminum design no matter who builds it is a poor design for off road. this goes for travveltrailers too.

they make other type of caps and sell a few different brands.

highdesertranger

 

[user 22017]

That is exactly what I had in mind, actually. I live in Oakland, so not so far.  Definitely on the list. I just ran a craigslist all over the bay area, down around LA into San Diego and did not find anything in the last 5 minutes.

I only found one, but it has no cab over. It is in Reno craigslist. It's sitting on a 1984 Jeep J-10.

I first discovered Callen doing a search for "toppers". The man selling it didn't mention Callen in the listing (I zoomed in on the name on the rear). Sometimes I regret not buying it. It was only $875. I'm 61 and have health issues, so I needed something I could move around in more.

If you can climb into a topper easily, then maybe start with one? Use the roof rack for a Clam screen room, awning, road shower, etc. With a screen room you aren't stuck in the topper for cooking and lounging.

 

[swlands]

My thinking is I can get all I need in a simple truck cap - ARE TW cap, CenturyT-Class or Leer 122 are all much the same. I will have tents and awnings when camping, but able to stealth camp easily. I won't stealth camp a lot as my goal is wilderness. I will be 3 season - not much into snow. I will create a comfortable place to sit in the back so I can cook in there if I need, but mostly I will cook outside. Reading this forum I am confident I can fit a bed, small frig, a camp stove, some portable solar and storage in there easily and be very comfortable.

Of interest this reviewer found improved gas mileage with the cap as it improved air flow.

I expect I will lose that to weight, but still.

I am surprised at some of the poor quality on some of these cap installs - that YouTube review had two issues. So I will have to check it out carefully when I get there.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Well if you dont need the cabover section, you might look at the A.R.E. DCU caps. 

They are aluminum framed and you customize them as you see fit...whatever you want for windows, doors, toolboxes, roof racks, height, etc. They cost about the same as the more expensive fiberglass tops, but the lead time is less, unless you get one specially paint matched. 

https://www.4are.com/product/commercial_aluminum/?cp=dcu

Here is one set up as a camper on expedition portal:

https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/a-r-e-aluminum-dcu-“camper-lite”-build.37239/


Here is the one I bought for my new pickup (with an 8 foot bed) back in the early part of 2018: