5 months until lease is up, and I have a ton of questions.

[SoulRaven]

Greetings Bob!

<hr>
<b>Bob wrote:</b>
"I bow to your long time experience, but I lived in Alaska for over 40 years and in a van for 6 years in Anchorage, Ak and -30 F was routine and the idea of trying to do it without insulation is beyond my comprehension."
<hr>
If I actually lived in Alaska, I might well be an advocate of insulation myself. Since I'm normally in the lower 48, thank heavens I only need to deal with that hostile environment on occasion.

My neighbor's insulation though, did him no good when his propane system froze up and the electricity had been out for nearly a week. Luckily, I had a spare bed I could share with him.

That is why I have a core belief that you should have adequate heating/cooling capabilities to handle a vehicle with no insulation, even in severe circumstances.
<hr>

<b>Bob wrote:</b>
"Every vehicle I've lived in has been very well insulated and is something I recommend to everybody if for no other reason to drastically reduce your costs of heating."
<hr>

Here we have differing vehicles, climates, and lifestyles, so I don't think there is really any right or wrong here. Just whatever works for each individual.

In my case, the ability to turn off my heat on a sunny day, vs. running it all day on a rainy day, saves me money...
<hr>
<b>Bob wrote:</b>
"There is a negative to insulation in that once the heat gets inside in the summer, the insulation makes it cool off slower. But by opening up the van and running a fan that problem can be overcome.
Bob"
<hr>

Insulation keeps hot or cold in, and likewise it also keeps hot and cold out.

Your design is to maximize the effects of your heating and cooling systems and to keep nature at bay, while my design is to maximize nature's heating and cooling effects, while minimizing the use of my heating and cooling systems.

So basically we just have two different approaches, to the same goal, safe & affordable comfort. With the availability and knowledge of as many systems as possible, we can empower others to make the best decisions possible to achieve their goals.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[SoulRaven]

In Missouri the Amish insulate the greenhouses in the winter with heavy black plastic leaving just a strip on the top open for light to come in if they want to keep the plants alive. The best ones I have seen had compost pits and wood stoves. Not really a valid comparison between living quarters and a greenhouse.

But your post does not make any logical sense. The greenhouse effect was talking about the massive amounts of pollution on a hot day turning the earth into a hot house, Not keeping a greenhouse warm in the winter. A van is way too small to hold much heat in the winter. Especially without adequate insulation.

Greetings!

I don't believe I have ever seen anyone do that with a greenhouse, although I did see an interesting design once that used alternating black and clear strips. Their design might have something to do with their lifestyle. Most of the greenhouses I've been around have both heating and cooling systems to allow for year round use, much like our own needs for year round vehicle dwelling. I think that the environments many plants and many humans enjoy are quite similar.

I used the term greenhouse effect in it's original context of the workings of a greenhouse, not that of global warming. I struggled a little bit with the terminology I used for that... I really wanted to say solar, but I didn't want it to get confused with solar panels, solar pop can heaters, etc.

Have you ever gone out to your vehicle on a cold day, and when you got inside it was much warmer than the outside temperature, even if it was cloudy? That is the effect that I'm talking about. Totally free heat supplied by nature itself.

With insulation you can block that effect, the question becomes whether or not you want to block it. If you block it, you must rely solely on your own resources for heating and cooling. Nature's effects will be minimal.

My choice is not to block it, and use nature's heating and cooling whenever it is available, and to only use my resources when I need to.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

---

I have an uninsulated window van and even with the sun shining, It's colder than you know what in there. I have a vent that leaks and almost broke my neck walking to the back of the van. There was actually a sheet of ice on the floor. Too cold for my blood.

Greetings!

Any air circulation, particularly out the top, can defeat the solar heating effect, and turn it into the solar cooling effect.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[akrvbob]

Campervan_Man, for the last 6 years I've pent my winters in the Arizona or Nevada desert but they can be amazingly cold. Weeks on end of the lows in the teens is not unusual. Then when it gets too hot it can be hard to find a mid temperature to move to as I move up in elevation.

This is all just my opinion and I could be wrong but all my experience has proven it works very well for me. But, maybe it won't work for anyone else. What you call the greenhouse effect I call Passive Solar heating. And it works very, very well. However, the key is to store the heat so it lasts through the night or it was all a waste to gather it. The only practical way to for a vandweller to store the heat is to allow as much as possible in during the day and insulating heavily to keep it in for as long as possible. I do that by:

1) Parking East-West in winter allowing maximum amout of heat to hit the side of the van during the peak hours of solar heat from 10-2. With a cargo van parking with the windshield slightly off due south will get more heat it.
2) I cover and insulate all windows not being directly struck by sunlight and heat to minimize loss through them
3) As soon as heat isn't coming in through the windows in the evening I cover and insulate them. To keep all the heat from escaping through them.
4) In exactly the same way I;ve insulated the walls and ceiling so as much heat stays inside for as long as possible. If it is cold I may still have to run my heater later in the evening, but because the insulation keeps it inside, I will have to run it less. Whatever you are burning for fuel, you will have to burn less of it saving you money and making you more comfortable.

To me, saying "I don't need insulation because I will just burn more fuel for heat." is exactly like saying "I won't add extra insulation around my cooler, I'll just buy more ice." I think $50 spent for a few sheets of styrofoam will pay for themselves in just a few years by burning less fossil fuel for heat, and even if it doesn't it is more than worth it to me for the extra comfort it gives me.

But, I could be wrong, it is for everyone who reads this to decide for themselves.
Bob

 

[decodancer]

What kind of vent? A window vent can be fixed with clear silicone and saran wrap. A floor vent you can find replacements at any JY for about $5
It's the roof vent that leaks. The great people here have given me a solution in my other post. Hopefully I will be able to implement it tomorrow.

Just curious, if insulation inside the van is not needed, why am I one of the few in my rv park to still have working water and sewer. The ones who did not insulate windows and below their rvs are using public facilities. My cost for propane is much lower as well and I have an much older travel trailer

 

[GotSmart]

What kind of vent? A window vent can be fixed with clear silicone and saran wrap. A floor vent you can find replacements at any JY for about $5
It's the roof vent that leaks. The great people here have given me a solution in my other post. Hopefully I will be able to implement it tomorrow.

Just curious, if insulation inside the van is not needed, why am I one of the few in my rv park to still have working water and sewer. The ones who did not insulate windows and below their rvs are using public facilities. My cost for propane is much lower as well and I have an much older travel trailer

I have spent many years working construction. If you go by my thread, https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Starting-the-build you will see that I am all for insulation, and have the belief that you can't have too much. The sides and ceiling of my van came with insulation, and I only need to do the floor. Thick padding and carpet will complete it for me. I have two layers down on top of the floor now.

 

[SoulRaven]

Campervan_Man, for the last 6 years I've pent my winters in the Arizona or Nevada desert but they can be amazingly cold. Weeks on end of the lows in the teens is not unusual. Then when it gets too hot it can be hard to find a mid temperature to move to as I move up in elevation.

Bob

Greetings Bob!

I cut the quote short just to save space...

Obviously we have different environments and conditions. I am frequently a city dweller without many options for where I can park while working, or to move with the weather much. I do usually try to head South in the winter and North in the summer, but it doesn't always work out that way. I was planning on spending January in southern Florida and wound up in Alaska instead!

Not that it matters a whole lot, but not counting Alaska, I typically go through one gallon of gas per month for my 12vdc generator, and 1-2 gallons of kerosene per month to cover my heating, cooking, and refrigeration needs, for a total of $10-$15 per month to keep me totally comfortable at all times.

I'm just kind of curious what everyone else spends on a monthly basis for heating/cooling, cooking, refrigeration, and battery charging. I never hook up to outside power, and I don't have solar anymore either.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[SoulRaven]

Just curious, if insulation inside the van is not needed, why am I one of the few in my rv park to still have working water and sewer. The ones who did not insulate windows and below their rvs are using public facilities. My cost for propane is much lower as well and I have an much older travel trailer

Greetings!

Obviously our situations are different, I'm not in a park and have no hookups, and I am on the move almost every day since my van is also my daily driver.

If I was in your situation, at the very least I'd be insulating the heck out of those water and sewer lines. As for the rest, you would know what works best for you and your situation than I would.

In my case, I spend a lot of time West of the cascades in Washington and Oregon. The rain forest of the PNW. When it is raining my side mirrors can be practically useless, so I need to keep my windows uncovered when I'm driving for safety's sake. These same windows, which I truly love, are also great at either sucking heat in or sucking heat out. But the view is spectacular!

Regardless of how much insulation anybody uses, they need sufficient HVAC to handle anything Mother Nature throws at us, and overkill is much better than under preparation.

Just dealing with it isn't acceptable to me, this is my home and I demand to be comfortable at all times in my own home, and everybody else should demand the same.

It just hurts me deep down inside when I see or hear of people living our lifestyle that are just surviving miserably, when we have both the knowledge and the technology to make this lifestyle one of choice and joy rather than desperation.

I've spent the last couple weeks working at an RV repair shop, and a couple of days ago, this 70 year old man pulled in with an old dilapidated canned ham trailer, with no bathroom or even port a potty. He told me of his miserable existence, homeless, parking where he could on the streets, and just barely making it on his Social Insecurity. He was concerned about where he could stay while his rig was in the shop...

I walked him across the parking lot to my home and invited him inside. It was warm and dry and cozy in my home, and he was very impressed. I offered him dinner and a warm bed for the night, and he agreed provided I let him cook the dinner at least.

He made us a marvelous steak and fried potatoes dinner, second to none, and during and after dinner we sat and chatted. He told me it was the first time he had been warm in months, and he couldn't even remember the last time he had steak and potatoes. He told me of sometimes being forced to eat dog food, and how he could stretch a one dollar can of it out to last 3 days. It was all I could do to keep from crying.

He thought that I must be wealthy to live in a rig like mine. When I asked about his finances, he confided that he got $235/mo on SS and after his wife died he could no longer afford their apartment.

So I asked him if he thought having a rig like this could improve his life. He said it sure would, but he could never afford to buy one, let alone live in one. He just barely had gas money for his 5mpg pickup as it was. He told me that there was no way he could afford any more than the $100 per month it was costing him to live in his trailer.

As fate would have it, I had just completed an $800 camper van, which was built to give away to a homeless person. It's nearly just as nice as mine, just a little bit shorter, and it has a six cylinder instead of my V8, and it was in the parking lot right beside us.

I decided right then and there that I must have built it for him... Just about then, he asked me if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition if he could take a shower before bedtime. I told him I had something I wanted to show him first, and took him next store. I turned on the lights and heat, and soon it was as cozy as mine inside. He was telling me how he had to use flashlights and candles in his rig, and how he could easily fall asleep in his comfortable recliner. He said he didn't really have any comfortable seats in his rig, and his bed wasn't comfortable either.

I asked him how much he thought it would cost to live in a rig like this and he said "Way more than the $100 it costs me to live in my junk heap!". When I told him it would never cost him more than $25/mo he said "Naw, now you're just joshin me now...". So I gave him a run down of the systems and cost, and he just couldn't believe it. Then I gave him the shock of his life when I told him that tonight he could take a shower in his very own bathroom before bedtime, and the rig he was sitting in was his, free and clear, no strings attached. Poor old guy broke down and cried.

He's not the same old sad dirty homeless guy I met a couple of days ago, now he's a clean happy camper. I'm going to take him down on Monday to get him on Food Stamps. If anybody's in N. Seattle and sees a bright orange high top 1977 dodge camper van that looks like new, his name is Joe, and I'm sure he'd love to make some new friends. He's a great guy and a great cook too.

A very humbled Rubber Warrior,

The CamperVan_Man

 

[One Awesome Inch]

That's a beautiful story. Nice to see there are still good people in this world like you CamperVan_Man.

 

[SoulRaven]

That's a beautiful story. Nice to see there are still good people in this world like you CamperVan_Man.

Greetings!

Thanks! I've been involved with Mobile Ministries for quite a while now. We specialize in helping the homeless, the unemployed, and the underemployed...

There's a couple of other groups out there making some forms of micro housing for homeless people, and a lot of them are spending more per unit than we do for these camper vans, and for the most part they aren't very mobile, just a small tube or box with a roof and a door. Not much better than glorified cardboard boxes with no heat or anything.

I just love the idea of setting people up with a fully functioning home instead. I think it helps so much more, both physically and mentally to start people in the right direction to get their lives back.

If I remember right, we now have a network of over 5400 churches nationwide which are van dweller friendly now too. I think somebody's working on putting together a website with these listings, and whenever I get the info, I'll post a link here for everybody too.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[Belinda2]

Please do give us the web site. I checked it out in my local area, and there are two with similar names, but don't do the same kind of ministry work. I will also give my friend in N. Seattle a call and make him aware and on the lookout for Joe. What a Godly witness. Thank you for posting and your care!

 

[SoulRaven]

Please do give us the web site. I checked it out in my local area, and there are two with similar names, but don't do the same kind of ministry work. I will also give my friend in N. Seattle a call and make him aware and on the lookout for Joe. What a Godly witness. Thank you for posting and your care!

Greetings!

I'm not actually sure whether Mobile Ministries has a website or not, I'll try to check on that. Basically, we're a team of mobile ministers, who work directly with the homeless etc. in the area's we're in at any given time. It is strictly volunteer work, so we all have to work other jobs to support ourselves. Then we also work with churches of all denominations to help them get set up to help those less privileged, ranging from food pantries to soup kitchens, to outreach programs etc. We get most of our funding by the local churches passing the collection plate for us, and we put 100% of all donations back into helping those in need, and almost every church we visit will have one or more individual in need of help, that the church just didn't know how to help, so we try to remain at each church long enough to help everyone who needs it.

A new friend(s) for Joe would be much appreciated, for one day, possibly soon, I will be moving on. He is doing remarkably well now though. I've been helping him to master all of the workings for his new home, and he will be accompanying me to church in a few hours, and he told me that if they decide to set up a kitchen or a pantry he would love to help run it for them.

It never ceases to amaze me how just a little bit of kindness or even something as simple as a warm smile, can have such a profound impact on someone else's life. And their reactions are my payment, and my joy.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[solution]

Lol, you guys hijacked my thread!!!

So I'm going to get started on the blueprints today, and as such have more questions for you wonderful folk.

So the floor plan is based off the 140" wheelbase 2006 Dodge Sprinter with a high roof. This is best case scenario if I can find one.

Dimensions can all be fond here, http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/specs/2006sprinterspecs.pdf

I'll stick to the basics for now and simply present my questions based off the dimensions of the speculated size of the cargo bay.

Length = 128.6" (10.71')
Width = 61.4" (5.1')
Width between wheelhouse = 50" (4.2')
Height WITH high roof = 73" (6.08')
Height w/o high roof = 59.8" (4.98')

This comes out to about 55 sqft, not including the cab. So, what are some of the most practical/efficient interior designs you've seen in vans that I could apply to these dimensions?

Off the top of my head, I believe I would like the bed to be able to fit over the wheel-housing and orientated width wise with the van in order to take up the least amount of space. I'm 5'8", 150 lbs so a smallish bed is no issue for me. Presumably I would flush it up against the back cargo doors, leaving storage underneath.

What I would want in the van...

Fridge
Microwave
Decent counter space for preparing meals, this could also double as a desk for my laptop maybe?
I'm considering a small tv, but it seems redundant considering I could likely find a way to make my laptop perform all my tv duties as well.
Compost toilet (I have unpredictable bowl movements so I think this is a necessity.)
Possibly a small keyboard as a musical hobby.
Maybe a coffee maker, but not required.
Roof ventilation system.
Some type of heating/cooling system that I've yet to discover/invent.

Also, where is the best place to put all my batteries? I would like to put a large amount of my resources into making sure the electrical system is robust. Before I can start fleshing out the electrical plans, I need to know where all the loads will be located, and where I should place all my power sources. I guess I'll get to that later though, but would love any and all advice on the matter.

So what am I leaving out? What should I take out? How should I lay it out? Are there any golden rules that I need to follow? What if anything should I keep on the passenger side of the cab?

Ok, I'm done for now. Thanks guys.

---

I also meant to ask for advice on what needs to be done before I actually start putting stuff into the van. We covered insulation early in the thread, and I think I'm going to do that for sure to begin with.

Keep in mind I'm an apprentice electrician and have access to, and could probably attain for free from our scrap plenty of useful materials. Wire/conduit will be no issue, and I'm guessing that the electrical/conduit system will be the next layer after insulation.

Having never done this before though, I would be very nervous about putting in any type of permanent walls, because I know that in the beginning my layout and preconceived ideas will change once put into practice. Instead, I was thinking about just putting in something cheap and easy to remove (what that is I have no idea), and then building everything off of 7/8" or 1-3/8" strut. This might be a less permanent starting point that also provides flexibility for mounting/anchoring various stuff.

Thoughts?[/align]

---

Uhg, ok one more question before I get way to ahead of myself.

Should I be considering the 118" wheel base model more closely, or from what I've stated so far will I be needing that extra bit of width?

---

Come to think of it, I'm sure there are plenty of creative ways of incorporating fold out beds, if anyone has experience with making/buying those please let me know!

 

[GotSmart]

6 X 16 ft? WOW!

First question. Do you really want to block the back doors? I have seen examples on here with a short "mud room" just inside the back doors where things like propane tanks and bicycles, BBQ, spare tire are stored with a small pass through door into the living space.

I would be using a 1X2 or 2X2 to do your struts with, and cover the insulation with veneer siding.

Roof access. Will you want to be able to get to your solar panels from inside, or outside. Perhaps ventilation via a moon roof or something?

A passenger seat will make your rig look a lot more stealth.

Plan a box of at least 12D X 12T X 34W to hold four batteries. I was able to design mine to fit under the floor. It will ventilate under the rig.
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Starting-the-build?pid=76396#pid76396

 

[solution]

6 X 16 ft? WOW!

First question. Do you really want to block the back doors? I have seen examples on here with a short "mud room" just inside the back doors where things like propane tanks and bicycles, BBQ, spare tire are stored with a small pass through door into the living space.

I would be using a 1X2 or 2X2 to do your struts with, and cover the insulation with veneer siding.

Roof access. Will you want to be able to get to your solar panels from inside, or outside. Perhaps ventilation via a moon roof or something?

A passenger seat will make your rig look a lot more stealth.

Plan a box of at least 12D X 12T X 34W to hold four batteries. I was able to design mine to fit under the floor. It will ventilate under the rig.
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Starting-the-build?pid=76396#pid76396

I guess I need to consider the bed a bit more. It's not that I'd be blocking the back doors, the storage underneath the bed would be accessible from opening the back doors. It just seems that area makes the most sense from a space utilization stand point. However, I fold out bed is a better alternative if I can get it figured out.

A cheap veneer makes sense. Should I Just run my electrical neatly through conduit on the exterior of the veneer so I can access or change that type of stuff. Again, my only concern is knowing my inexperience will lead to issues if I have stuff hidden behind the walls or other cabinetry.

Do I need to access my panels from inside? I don't think I would mine only being able to access them from the outside, unless I'm missing something.
Continuing on the roof, I would want to devise a way to fit a good roof fan/vent, solar panels, and if it all possible hide them within a roof rack so people can't see it just walking by. If at all possible the roof rack and solar panels would be installed in such a way to still allow the carrying of a kayak or bike on the top.

I wasn't really considering doing anything to the passenger seat, just more or less interested if that area could be effectively used for something that maybe I haven't thought of yet.

Thanks for the input!

 

[GotSmart]

Here is one thread with some good ideas you can use. See post #8 for what I was talking about on the mud room.
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Uhaul-Super-Stealth-Box

A roof rack will camo your panels and access from the inside will give you means to arrange things and secure your Kayak.

In my experience, once you put in your electrical, you seldom need to change it. Just give yourself plenty of outlets, and run a spare conduit for possible upgrades. (Fishtape)

 

[SoulRaven]

Lol, you guys hijacked my thread!!!

Length = 128.6" (10.71')
Width = 61.4" (5.1')
Width between wheelhouse = 50" (4.2')
Height WITH high roof = 73" (6.08')
Height w/o high roof = 59.8" (4.98')

Greetings!

Personally I don't care for the sprinters because you lose about a foot of interior width.

I'm going to try to attach a pic of what I'd do.


Also check out: http://www.sprinter-rv.com/diy-gallery/

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

---

6 X 16 ft? WOW!

I would be using a 1X2 or 2X2 to do your struts with, and cover the insulation with veneer siding.

Greetings!

Where did you get those measurements from? I saw 5'x10.5'...

If you use 1" pvc pipes for your firring strips, they're moisture proof.

If I'm actually building an interior, rather than just moving in ready made re-purposed stuff I try to make the entire thing out of moisture proof materials. Moisture is what kills most RV interiors.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[SoulRaven]

Greetings Solution!

For starters, I would definitely go with repurposed household kitchen cabinets, both upper and lower. They can usually be had really cheap or free on CraigsList. You might be able to use a Walmart cot that has springs and a mattress for a starter bed/sofa. Thrift Stores and CL can be a good place to find a super comfy chair for your living room, which I highly recommend.

A simple ice chest will work until you decide where/how you want your fridge setup. You really don't need plumbing, a gravity water system is portable and can be used outside too. Same with a portable stove. I use dish pans for portable sinks, so I can totally clear my counter top for other purposes.

Don't forget some sort of port-a-potty! I'm not sure about the composting toilet idea, from what I've seen they're kind of big and heavy for a camper van.

You can use your camp stove for heat, I prefer kerosene, but propane or even Coleman fuel will work with proper ventilation. The advantage of using your camp stove for heat is that it gives you superior temperature control rather than having to continually start and stop it. This is how the system works in many boats. You just turn a clay flower pot upside down over one burner to help it radiate the heat better.

The final two things I wouldn't be caught dead without, are a 12v DC gas generator w/battery, and a 12v DC non-evaporative swamp cooler. You'll probably need to build these, but they don't cost that much, and they'll make you totally off grid ready. I don't have a solar panel, but for about one gallon of gas per month, I never run out of power. No sunshine or wind required. Plus if it's hot enough to run the cooler, who wants to park in the sun... I prefer the shade if you can find some...

Even though I am usually a city dweller, I never hook up to shore power. Even if you want/enjoy shore power, it is best to be set up to never NEED it to be totally comfortable.

Hope this helps...

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[decodancer]

Google truck mattress and you will find a selection of unusual sizes. I have a 32"x80" and it runs down the drivers side. Cost was around $125. I built the frame from 2x3s Storage underneath. Add a couple of carpenters wedge bolster and you have a sofa.

 

[GotSmart]

I went to the factory specs.

http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/specs/2006sprinterspecs.pdf

Personally I try to stay away from plastics and the toxins they emit as much as possible.

 

[solution]

Thanks for keeping up with the thread guys, I really appreciate everyone's experience in these matters.

Hey camper, as far as the swamp cooler do I need to be concerned about all the moisture they put out in relation to any electronics or specific materials I put into the van?