3/4 - 1 Ton Express vs 1//2 Ton AWD Van

[cortttt]

I was pre-approved for a 1-ton Penske Savanna van but the finance guy at the loaner is way behind. Despite the fact that I told him I was sitting on another van I didn't want to lose if the financing didnt work out and promises that it would be done it's been 4 days and now its the weekend. I told them I was going to start looking again and if I didn't have a van by Monday we could talk again.

For a lark I punched in AWD and was surprised what showed up. They would all require at least a 500 mile trip but they are out there = mostly in the form of Passenger vans.  Because it appears I might have trouble swapping out the closed windows for open windows - I want lots of air inside - the passenger vans won't work for me but there are some cargo vans - all 1500's - one with a 5.3L and low miles and at a reasonable price.

That got me to thinking. Would that van suit my needs better?

My Situation

I can't imagine that I'm going to do a heavy build out With my chemical sensitivities I'm going to put metal shelving in. I won't put a bed in - except for inclement weather or if grizzly bears are around, I won't sleep in the van.  The van for me is more for being able to get organized and being able to get out of weather when needed. Since I spend the winters in the SW, weather is not that much of an issue. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see myself loading it up all much (?) so I don't think I'll need the more heavy duty vans. I have no reason to tow either.

I don't need AWD either. I can do fine with 2WD but if I can get it I'd sure like to have it. I spend alot of time traveling on dirt roads. I don't do any stealth camping. It's all boondocking. It would add a couple of thousand to the price though and repairs would be more expensive and possibly more frequent.

Boulder offers a small lift kit at a reasonable price.

• Better MPG. lower miles, and AWD are what would push me towards the 1500.
• Possibly better reliability, better access to parts, a bigger knowledge base, a cheaper price and the fact that I trust Penske would push me to the heavier duty vans.

Pro's and con's 2500/3500 van

• Extended version available - more room and probably a bit better ride.
• Parts/mechanics readily available
• Known to be reliable
• A bit cheaper
• Gas mileage appears to be worse  

Pro's and con's 1500 AWD

• Fewer worries about getting stuck, better access to the outdoors
• Probably better MPG in a lighter van
• Could be easily lifted a bit
• I have come across some comments about reliability but haven't been able to pin anything down. Most people seem to be happy but then again there's not that much info
• Smaller
• More expensive repairs if they occur
• Parts not as avaiilable

Thoughts?

 

[BradKW]

I had an E150 for years and took it back mountain fire roads and it did pretty well. A simple 12v winch will get you out of the situations where your judgment loses traction.

I found it was fairly easy for me to overload a 150 with tools and stuff...sometimes just to point of poor handling, sometimes to point where rear leafs were inverted to a frown.

I'd be inclined to go bigger at the start rather than have regrets later. A van with rear wheel LSD does pretty well in anything other than some winter road conditions. And if you go Ford, GM or Nissan (check model lists), you could always save up for a nice 4x4 upgrade: http://www.quigley4x4.com/

 

[LeeRevell]

While I would prefer 4X4 over AWD, being more rugged and actually intended for offroad, rather than simply better on-road traction, my true off-roading days are pretty well over.  I have my RWD van, and tow my Dual Sport motorcycle for the little bit of offroading I do.  The RWD van is simpler and less expensive to maintain too.  One thing about 4X4, it can entice the driver to get into situations he would otherwise avoid.  Been there, done that, spent the money to fix it.

As I do not 'stealth camp' in cities, the whole concept of being a 'stealth van' eludes me.  If one needs that, fine and dandy.  I like my conversion windows.  It is nice to be able to open curtains or take down panels and look out at the world, and let air and light in.

But we each have our different wants and needs.   Choice is a good thing.  

 

[cortttt]

I had an E150 for years and took it back mountain fire roads and it did pretty well. A simple 12v winch will get you out of the situations where your judgment loses traction.

I found it was fairly easy for me to overload a 150 with tools and stuff...sometimes just to point of poor handling, sometimes to point where rear leafs were inverted to a frown.

I'd be inclined to go bigger at the start rather than have regrets later. A van with rear wheel LSD does pretty well in anything other than some winter road conditions. And if you go Ford, GM or Nissan (check model lists), you could always save up for a nice 4x4 upgrade: http://www.quigley4x4.com/

Thanks Brad.  An LSD is probably all I need. I am not into boulder hopping. I was looking at the LSD's. The 3500's were considerably more than the 2500's - almost double in price...I wonder why that is?

Some more expensive setups also say a rear locker but I thought that was the same thing?

 

[MrNoodly]

I have a 3/4 ton van. It's not heavily loaded, which means it bounces around more on rough surfaces because of its stiffer springs. However, it has slightly more ground clearance than a 1/2 ton. Ground clearance isn't a big deal for me, but it's good when there are ruts or the occasional boulder in the "road."

 

[cortttt]

While I would prefer 4X4 over AWD, being more rugged and actually intended for offroad, rather than simply better on-road traction, my true off-roading days are pretty well over.  I have my RWD van, and tow my Dual Sport motorcycle for the little bit of offroading I do.  The RWD van is simpler and less expensive to maintain too.  One thing about 4X4, it can entice the driver to get into situations he would otherwise avoid.  Been there, done that, spent the money to fix it.

As I do not 'stealth camp' in cities, the whole concept of being a 'stealth van' eludes me.  If one needs that, fine and dandy.  I like my conversion windows.  It is nice to be able to open curtains or take down panels and look out at the world, and let air and light in.

But we each have our different wants and needs.   Choice is a good thing.  

Thanks Lee, I'm beyond true off-roading as well.

Did you buy a conversion with windows or put them in? Any recommendations on windows to put in?

 

[cortttt]

Thanks Brad.  An LSD is probably all I need. I am not into boulder hopping. I was looking at the LSD's. The 3500's were considerably more than the 2500's - almost double in price...I wonder why that is?

Some more expensive setups also say a rear locker but I thought that was the same thing?

I got the distinction between the locker and the limited slip; if I got one I would go with the limited slip.

 

[LeeRevell]

Thanks Lee, I'm beyond true off-roading as well.

Did you buy a conversion with windows or put them in? Any recommendations on windows to put in?

Mine already has them in.  Standard "Conversion Van" type, with small sliding windows with screens beneath the larger fixed windows.  Once I can get a roof vent with fan in place, it should provide plenty of ventilation and air movement.

 

[29chico]

I have a hard time believing that an AWD 1500 GM van will get better mpg's than a 2wd G2500 or G3500 RWD, provided that the heavier duty vans are equipped with the 4.8L and the 6 speed trans.  The 1500 AWD full size GM vans never got the 6 speed.

I agree that having AWD can lure you into getting into  iffy situations and end up stuck.

I also agree that it is pretty easy to overload a 1500 van.

 

[LeeRevell]

4X4 carries more weight, has more friction losses  and is usually geared lower than RWD so generally has less MPG.  AWD (in minivans and cars only) is more like stadard RWD or FWD.  Truck and full size van systems (RWD and 4X4) are heavier duty though which can be an advantage.  Less wear and tear over time if not abused.

 

[SoulRaven]

Many passenger vans have opening windows, usually in both the side and rear doors, and across from the side doors behind the driver. I find these quite sufficient at cooling down the whole van within minutes by aiming a small fan outwards in one of them, without the need of roof vents.

 

[cortttt]

I have a hard time believing that an AWD 1500 GM van will get better mpg's than a 2wd G2500 or G3500 RWD, provided that the heavier duty vans are equipped with the 4.8L and the 6 speed trans.  The 1500 AWD full size GM vans never got the 6 speed.

I agree that having AWD can lure you into getting into  iffy situations and end up stuck.

I also agree that it is pretty easy to overload a 1500 van.

I was checking through an Expediters Forum on their thoughts on the 3500 Express. The reviews were good - one had 850,000 miles on his rig ..but what caught my attention was the MPG; some of those guys said they were getting 18-19 mpg on the highway...carrying a 2,000 lb load.. that's kind of a mind blower...

I know the 4WD's kept the 4spd

 

[cortttt]

Many passenger vans have opening windows, usually in both the side and rear doors, and across from the side doors behind the driver.  I find these quite sufficient at cooling down the whole van within minutes by aiming a small fan outwards in one of them, without the need of roof vents.

Thanks...I didn't think of using a fan...

 

[AimlessWanderLust]

We have a 2014 Chevy Express 1500 cargo van, lifted ~3 inches. Absolutely love it. 

Here's my opinion on a few of the items mentioned in this thread, take them how you will:

We get a very solid 15MPG the way our van sits right now. No real difference before/after lift. But the ride and handling was greatly improved with the lift. Didn't use a kit, made our own kit, if you will. But essentially, we have new torsion bar keys up front, new leaf Springs in the rear (about equivalent to the 2500 vans), new shocks all around.  This also boosted the vans payload.

Regarding 4x4 vs AWD: AWD is superior in every way unless you are climbing boulders. It is better in snow, ice, wet pavement, and dirt. I've had an 85 Toyota 4Runner and a 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel, both 4x4. The 4Runner was better for bouldering, but for any other condition, the AWD van is far more impressive. Plus, it's always on. (Sure, this whole statement is controversial, keep in mind this is just my opinion and experience)

Reliability: The 5.3L motor in the van is probably one of the most reliable American made V8 motors ever made. The AWD system is the same as what is in AWD Gm trucks and SUVs of similar years. No worry about parts.

Our van has the factory rear "locker" (G80 VIN code). It is much closer to a limited slip in design than a true locker. A true locker would be superior. It also has  the traction control, it works well for sliding situations, but is a hindrance once fully stuck. It can be turned off on demand.

We got the sliding door, kinda wish we got the barn doors now.

Feel free to check our blog for information on our build out. Though it's a little out of date. The lift and other additions are not mentioned there yet.

Cheers!

 

[cortttt]

We have a 2014 Chevy Express 1500 cargo van, lifted ~3 inches. Absolutely love it. 

Here's my opinion on a few of the items mentioned in this thread, take them how you will:

We get a very solid 15MPG the way our van sits right now. No real difference before/after lift. But the ride and handling was greatly improved with the lift. Didn't use a kit, made our own kit, if you will. But essentially, we have new torsion bar keys up front, new leaf Springs in the rear (about equivalent to the 2500 vans), new shocks all around.  This also boosted the vans payload.

Regarding 4x4 vs AWD: AWD is superior in every way unless you are climbing boulders. It is better in snow, ice, wet pavement, and dirt. I've had an 85 Toyota 4Runner and a 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel, both 4x4. The 4Runner was better for bouldering, but for any other condition, the AWD van is far more impressive. Plus, it's always on. (Sure, this whole statement is controversial, keep in mind this is just my opinion and experience)

Reliability: The 5.3L motor in the van is probably one of the most reliable American made V8 motors ever made. The AWD system is the same as what is in AWD Gm trucks and SUVs of similar years. No worry about parts.

Our van has the factory rear "locker" (G80 VIN code). It is much closer to a limited slip in design than a true locker. A true locker would be superior. It also has  the traction control, it works well for sliding situations, but is a hindrance once fully stuck. It can be turned off on demand.

We got the sliding door, kinda wish we got the barn doors now.

Feel free to check our blog for information on our build out. Though it's a little out of date. The lift and other additions are not mentioned there yet.

Cheers!

Thanks guys! 

I guess you got the last of the 1500 AWD's. . I'm a little jealous....I ended up going with the 2wd but in an extended version so I got more room but less maneuverability.... I plan to put a limited slip differential / rear locker in there at some point if I have the cash.  Going 4wd is too pricey for me.

Glad to hear it worked out for you ...Interesting that the lift didn't play with the gas mileage.  Lifting the van up a bit is one thing I want to do but I was worried about gas mileage.

That's fascinating that the AWD is better in most circumstances. I have no intention and have never had any desire to go bouldering. (I don't get bouldering to tell you the truth.)

I've heard good things about the 5.3L (and the 4.8L) - glad to hear your experience is similar. 

Looking forward to checking out your build

 

[AimlessWanderLust]

Oh, since apparently I forgot to specifically say it, we do indeed have the AWD, 2014 Chevy Express 1500 AWD.

We bought it brand new shortly after the announcement of discontinuation, for fear it would become a unicorn. It was pretty much the last one on the lot, and most dealers usually only stocked like 1-2. I really don't understand why the Savana/Express AWD van didn't gain much traction until AFTER they are discontinued, but they seem to be in higher demand now.  :huh:

Just to clarify, the attached picture is what I mean by bouldering. It is really the only time I prefer 4x4, since the transfer case has low range and a 50/50 torque split to front and rear wheels. The Express AWD does not have low range, and has a torque split of 35/65 front and rear, which is just fine for all other occasions I've experienced.

Cheers!

 

[LeeRevell]

No "bouldering" ( usually called 'rock crawling') down here in Florida.  Our extreme off road guys do "mud bogging".  But I've never seen them use 4X4 vans.  AWD is good for low-traction situations on road (sand, mud, snow, etc.) but useless for true off-roading.  Especially the automatic kind.  By the time the computer decides it needs the extra traction it is stuck.  Smart use of RWD can be just as good or better.

 

[cortttt]

No "bouldering" ( usually called 'rock crawling') down here in Florida.  Our extreme off road guys do "mud bogging".  But I've never seen them use 4X4 vans.  AWD is good for low-traction situations on road (sand, mud, snow, etc.) but useless for true off-roading.  Especially the automatic kind.  By the time the computer decides it needs the extra traction it is stuck.  Smart use of RWD can be just as good or better.

Thanks Lee - I'm just worried about low traction situations - so thanks for clarifying that. That's good to know...

If I change anything it will be to add limited slip differential. I assume that will help substantially (?)

 

[cortttt]

Oh, since apparently I forgot to specifically say it, we do indeed have the AWD, 2014 Chevy Express 1500 AWD.

We bought it brand new shortly after the announcement of discontinuation, for fear it would become a unicorn. It was pretty much the last one on the lot, and most dealers usually only stocked like 1-2. I really don't understand why the Savana/Express AWD van didn't gain much traction until AFTER they are discontinued, but they seem to be in higher demand now.  :huh:

Just to clarify, the attached picture is what I mean by bouldering. It is really the only time I prefer 4x4, since the transfer case has low range and a 50/50 torque split to front and rear wheels. The Express AWD does not have low range, and has a torque split of 35/65 front and rear, which is just fine for all other occasions I've experienced.

Cheers!

That picture is exactly what I have no interest in doing

 

[BigT]

Oh, since apparently I forgot to specifically say it, we do indeed have the AWD, 2014 Chevy Express 1500 AWD.

I really don't understand why the Savana/Express AWD van didn't gain much traction until AFTER they are discontinued, but they seem to be in higher demand now.  :huh:

I'm glad to hear you're having good luck with your '14 AWD.  

I just found a super-clean, 2014 Savana 1500 AWD with 98,000 miles for $23,000 (that's pretty normal for California)  :s  

I was thinking a mid-top, like Bob has, and a small lift might make it a very useable platform for my next camper conversion.  
Only problem, living in an apartment, I have no place to put it while doing the conversion.  If I park a white cargo van on the streets of my neighborhood, it will get tagged or vandalized.....  maybe even stolen.      Idiots crash into parked cars around here all the time.  

I was surprised to find the 1500 came with a 4.8 liter V8.  I thought the 1/2 Ton only came with a V6.


Oops.  I just realized this is a really old thread.   :blush: