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Bob Wells and the cheaprvliving community is a great help for all who want to, or are forced into this lifestyle.

However I think at this point it starts to become a dis-service to the community. The more waves we make, the more the government and other regulatory bodies will step it and will want their share. This lifestyle will be destroyed by all this attention it's getting now. A 10,000 people gathering is crazy. This is best served if it stays under the radar. Disperse and keep quiet. The regulatory bodies do not want the best for us, they want their money and want to regulate everything. Is this what we want ?

You need to know when to stop. Now is the time to stop. We are at 2 minutes to midnight to destroy this lifestyle. Keep quiet and move on with your lives, don't make it another big movement that will be destroyed just like other big movements were before this.
 
What Remie said ^^^

It seems many who are in this have done so in order to keep beneath-the-radar and keep quiet.  It also seems it has become the "In" thing to do -- look at me, look at me!  Which is one reason I quit.  Too many people having "fun" and drawing too much negative attention to it by huge gatherings where it is inevitable there will be problems: alcohol, drugs, loud gatherings, fights, you name it, all in the name of having fun at others' expense, it's all about me-me-me in too many instances.  Those types want the attention and that attention will attract more of the same and quickly become regulated, as the leaders are fast learning in their attempts to find a place to gather.

It is sadly inevitable.
 
"We are at 2 minutes to midnight to destroy this lifestyle".

"drawing too much negative attention to it by huge gatherings where it is inevitable there will be problems: alcohol, drugs, loud gatherings, fights, ".

I think people are getting too carried away with these end of the world scenarios. The facts are that there are 8 million or so RVs and 40 million people go camping every year.

If you look at pictures of the RTR, there are mostly regular RVs there, not a bunch of obviously psychedelic hippie vehicles. There is not a tribe of 10,000 people traveling around in large groups, making trouble. There is a yearly get together, and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of visitors to RTR are regular part time RV travelers who go back to their S&B jobs afterwards. Regular people, not stoners. Everyone goes their separate ways.

Equating this with "inevitable ... alcohol, drugs, loud gatherings, fights" is a huge disservice to what HOWA is trying to do. This is NOT the Rainbow family where those things are a huge problem, along with leaving totally trashed national forest areas in their wake. Just take a look at the different pictures on the web between RTR and Rainbow gatherings and the difference is 100% obvious.

That being said, exponential growth in RTR attendance is a problem. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, holding it in Anza Borrega is way too close to LA, and may cause a problem with the wrong kind of city folk invading it.
 
The issue I'm talking about is not alcohol and drugs. 

I think it was done enough for the community that at this point everybody who is interested can go on and figure out on their own what to do.  Growing this movement in the open is not beneficial, and again I am not thinking about drugs and alcohol.  I think people know, or can learn how to fish from all that is out there already, so we need to stop giving fish away, to use a well known metaphor.

The exponential growth of the RTR is a direct result of all the fuss and rainbows that were painted around this lifestyle. Bob IS selling a fairytale.  Full time RV-ing is for many people - not for all, but for many - a coping lifestyle, that enables people to maintain decency and dignity in extreme circumstancess.  When this becomes a "movement" that is growing out of control it will be impossible to turn around.  And then, of course, the all-helpful government will step in to help ....

The world does not need to be saved, just some individuals need to figure stuff on their own, based on experience that has been shared already, and save themselves.  Initial help and community is great.  Animals let their babies go on their own after they have learned the basics. That's what I'm talking about.  Thinking that big organizations and governments are there to help you is naive.
 
And then there is the thought that the RTR as it has been has run it's course, that a different, consolidated, and specialized approach that creates a series of smaller rendezvous over the course of the season vs two weeks, in a sense expanding on the idea of the caravans but with an intention to give focus to a particular aspect of the lifestyle. Vacationers could have the season's schedule to plan ahead while some others will still pop in only for what interests them.
 
" that a different, consolidated, and specialized approach that creates a series of smaller rendezvous".
:thumbsup:

There are clearly two very different issues, and people seem to conflate them.
 
Are there Mission/Vision/Goal statements for RTR?
 
The way some act you would think that Bob, this forum, the RTR and you tube IS this "movement" The truth is that if you spend time in the real world you would realize that it is as far from the truth as you could possibly be. We are but a small fraction of the number of people that dwell in vehicles. I spent a few days at a Walmart in Washington last year. I would see a handful of vans with solar. Twice that of RV'rs and a bunch of people surviving in their vehicles. They didn't have solar, batteries, hotspots, stoves, etc. They had cars, trucks and SUV's packed with their belongings because they were truly homeless. They are the ones lining the streets with beat up RV's. They are not likely here on the forum or watching you tube to see what the next best thing is to make their lives more comfortable or attending the RTR, they are existing. Those that do are looking for help.

Those are the people Bob wanted to help when he started all of this many years ago. Those are the people that come here looking for answers. Those are the people that attend the talks at the RTR. Those are the ones that want to know how to make it so their lives do not have to suck. They are the ones that are hurt the most if it is shut down to protect our way of life and they have been there a lot longer than Bob, this forum, the RTR and even You Tube has been.

This "movement" started before cars were invented. People have been living out of their cars and RV's since they were invented. (see the tin can motorist to see what this movement was like early on) The powers that be has know about it all along. All that is happening now is the BLM is reacting to the growth of the RTR and the changes that will be made next year. Have you seen the changes that they are expecting from Burning man?
 
where did this rumor about the RTR being held at Anza Borrego get started. I will tell y'all right now this plain ain't true. highdesertranger
 
Suanne said:
Note: We are looking into other pay-for venues. And we are looking at adding multiple smaller gatherings throughout the year. We're evolving.
Click to expand...

 One of the seeds I watered with an earlier post

highdesertranger said:
… rent the park in Quartzsite and have the seminars there.  they rent the park all the time.  in this way there is not one big organized RTR camp and basically take the BLM out of the equation.  everybody can camp in smaller groups wherever they want.  no more BLM hassle,  no more port-a-pottie rental and no more dumpster fees,  those fees can go to the park rental... or plan B rent a bunch of short term spaces at Tyson Wells or one of the other outdoor vending areas.  and not only hold the seminars there but set up the fundraising booths there.  this would give you much greater exposure and basically more exposure is what you want in fund raising.
a few announcements could be made on KBUX the Quartzsite radio station.  I believe the Newspaper "The Desert Messenger" would run ads for free because of the non-profit status of HOWA.

highdesertranger
Click to expand...

 This is good and sound thinking that would certainly cut the cost of the event. Makes me wonder of renting a school bus as well for a shuttle. This all could add up to a small fraction of the potential costs that are on the table now.
 
here is what was said in the other thread in post 4,

"In the vicinity of Anza Borego Desert State Park. Within 20 miles outside of one of its borders."

keywords, "in the vicinity", and "within 20 miles OUTSIDE of one of it's borders."

it is NOT in Anza Borrego or anywhere on that map that was posted.

this is kinda fun.

enough clues were given to figure it out I did. unfortunately if anybody guesses it right I can't tell you that's up to the higher ups.

highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
here is what was said in the other thread in post 4,

"In the vicinity of Anza Borego Desert State Park. Within 20 miles outside of one of its borders."

keywords,  "in the vicinity",  and  "within 20 miles OUTSIDE of one of it's borders."

highdesertranger
Click to expand...

Holy crap, HDR..
 I think that's the most I've ever seen you say at one time!!
:shy:
 
"it is NOT in Anza Borrego or anywhere on that map that was posted".

Of course, you need that map to tell where the SP boundaries are.
 
Maybe we can have a guess the rtr location contest. Whoever gets the closest wins!
 
Take your best shot, Cam, HDR and I already have it figured out. lol.
 
$600,000? Wow! Sounds like it's a polite way of saying "go away"!    Anyone can spend the $40 for a 2 week pass in the LTVA and camp where they want.... even Bob.
 
I just read all the posts. Wow.
Good ideas all around. Yes, this one event has become big. Kudos to all who work on it to make it happen.
So many people have no clue how to camp for more than a weekend, let alone how to survive living in their car, keeping mentally up beat, work, school, while figuring out their next step to get out of poverty.
I am an experienced camper and traveler yet became very weak and full of anxiety and depressed when I had to live in my car for 3 months straight in the city while trying to get low income housing. Country camping is way better!
Still no housing, thankfully a friend took me in. The system is broken and we are on our own.

Going forward, some regional meet ups and during different seasons will be good as the amount of gas money and wear and tear on our vehicles, for many, to get to AZ , is hard or impossible.

I went to the RTR in 2018. I really enjoyed it.
I met some great people but after a few days the rocks, washes and terrain made it hard for me to walk around as I have terrible leg pain when I walk too much and I miss out on so much in life. I didn't meet nearly enough people and missed a lot of the talks and only stayed 5 days. I would like to get a small elect bike one day so I can be more mobile.

Some smaller gatherings and caravans would work for me. I would like to share my knowledge on medicare, medicaid, housing, doctors and social services in a smaller setting.
 
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