2001 Ford E350 Extended High-top van [split from 1986 Dodge B-250 ...]

[masterplumber]

Debit, I use a 5 gallon container under my sink for gray water. As long as you're careful to only use biodegradable soap etc...it is safe and actually more responsible to dump it on vegetation to water it. Just don't keep dumping it in the same place all the time - spread it around. There are times when you can't dump it on the ground, like in some campgrounds. But I find that with careful use my 5 gallon tank will hold 2 weeks worth of gray water. That is when using 20 gallons of clean water in the same time period.

And congratulations on the new van! Be careful about what you choose to run for fuel. You can get away with used veggie oil if you filter it well, but I'm not sure going the route Low Tech uses will work for you. He has an all mechanical military engine that was made to run on many different grades of fuel. Yours is a computer controlled engine with narrow operating perimeters. Also be aware that most people who run veggie fuel also start and stop their diesels on diesel fuel, making sure to run it long enough to clear the lines of veggie fuel. You'll also need a heat exchanger in the veggie oil tank run of the engines cooling system. Vegetable oil gels at a higher temperature that diesel fuel, something like 50 degrees or so. So you have to warm it up and keep it wrm to keep it flowing. It's not as simple as just dumping veggie oil in the tank and going. For your first season in the new van I would just run diesel fuel and concentrate on making a comfortable home out of it. If the funds and time allow later you can always revisit the idea when you have time to fully research it. Best wishes.

 

[NeedAnEscape]

As for the WVO/WMO fuels go, I wouldn't risk it on the van you have. If you had the other 7.3l Ford (the pure mechanical one), and the older body style (like my van) which had factory dual tanks it would be worth looking into, but with the van you have, it will be very expensive to fix it if the alt. fuel messes something up. The fuel injectors for the computer-controlled 7.3 are $1000+ just for parts.

 

[debit.servus]

I am curious about the "testing". I know that you posted earlier that you would be testing this product and reporting on the results.

What parameters will you be 'testing'? How will you quantify the data, what instruments? Have you measured and determined a 'before' set of data to then compare with the 'after' data recorded while using the NMF Ionic Friction Reducer?

Guy

Was thinking of measuring the noise from the genset using a DB app on a SAMSUNG GALAXY LIGHT T1399 (don't have a real DB meter), and the vibrations by adding it to the DODGE vans oil possibly using some vibration detection app (don't have a vibration measuring device).

Any better ways to measure before/after without a thousand dollars of measuring equipment? Looking for some advice so I can test it as best I can for everybody on the internet.

Debit, I use a 5 gallon container under my sink for gray water. As long as you're careful to only use biodegradable soap etc...it is safe and actually more responsible to dump it on vegetation to water it. Just don't keep dumping it in the same place all the time - spread it around. There are times when you can't dump it on the ground, like in some campgrounds. But I find that with careful use my 5 gallon tank will hold 2 weeks worth of gray water. That is when using 20 gallons of clean water in the same time period.

I don't plan to form tons of greywater, I just don't want to deal with it every day. The increased registration and insurance cost of the 2001 FORD stole every dollar in my biodegradable soap fund; so chemical soaps it is.

The RELIANCE Hydroller looks like a very appealing option, even better than the 10 gallon tank that came with the DODGE. Pouring greywater down the toilet at unattended rest stops and public restrooms sounds like a reasonable way to manage greywater.

The 55 gallons of water is there for evaporative cooling water, thinking of building a mini version of this using a FANTASTIC endless breeze as the fan. Unlike the bucket coolers, this takes little space when in storage. 

As for the WVO/WMO fuels go, I wouldn't risk it on the van you have. If you had the other 7.3l Ford (the pure mechanical one), and the older body style (like my van) which had factory dual tanks it would be worth looking into, but with the van you have, it will be very expensive to fix it if the alt. fuel messes something up. The fuel injectors for the computer-controlled 7.3 are $1000+ just for parts.

Not worth risking it. This is why I didn't want a computer controlled engine in a van, aside from the inevitable EMP frying the vans electronics. Any repairs due to running with dirty substances will wipe out any and all fuel savings. What makes these fuel injector$ so expensive? I thought fuel injection was just streamlined carburation? With most cars new fuel injectors could be had for $20 a pop.

Bob, I changed my mind. Can you please split this thread, leaving all posts before March 27th, 2016 in this thread and move all posts after to a new thread titled "2001 Ford E350 Extended High-top van"? After spinning off the thread, rename this thread back to it's original title "1986 Dodge B-250 extended bubble-top van for an unconventional guy"?
[split by Mod, as requested, 3/31/16]

 

[highdesertranger]

oh my, go to your community college and take some auto repair classes. if you look around you can find free dump stations, also some are 5 bucks. highdesertranger

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I second highdesertranger's advice.  Take some auto repair classes and get the basics under your belt.  As far as evaporating waste water goes, don't waste your time or energy.  And more importantly your van!  Based on your previous experience lighting vans on fire, all you are doing is taking on a lot of risk for no reward.  Use a few five gallon buckets and you can dump them in public restrooms, free dump stations and if it's not too funky you can even water some plants as mentioned above.    

You got very nice parents and are very lucky to have that van.  Spend more time enjoying it and traveling and less time trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[debit.servus]

I highly recommend that you do some reading to educate yourself on how a diesel works and how to maintain it. To start with it takes a special oil, I caught my neighbor just as he was tipping a jug of standard oil into his new (to him) class C with a Cummins engine. He is a very mechanical type guy but just didn't know that there was a difference.
...

I found 3 gallons of 15w40 oil in WALMART for less than $40. Need to start acquiring spare fluids and belts for this FORD van.

...  if you look around you can find free dump stations,  also some are 5 bucks.  highdesertranger

Free dump stations are few and far between. Due to the increased regi$tration, in$urance, and maintenance cost of the FORD van there is nothing in the Greywater Dumping Fund. I have a feeling I will need to pinch waay more dollars to afFORD to upkeep this 2001 FORD. 

...As far as evaporating waste water goes, don't waste your time or energy.  And more importantly your van!  Based on your previous experience lighting vans on fire, all you are doing is taking on a lot of risk for no reward.  Use a few five gallon buckets and you can dump them in public restrooms, free dump stations and if it's not too funky you can even water some plants as mentioned above.    

You got very nice parents and are very lucky to have that van.  Spend more time enjoying it and traveling and less time trying to reinvent the wheel.

It won't be fruitless if I keep it simple and cheap.

Tried using 5 gallon buckets for my RTR 2015 trip and it was a monster hassle, not to mention smelling stinking greywater. The RELIANCE Hydroller is relatively space-efficient, can roll when full and doesn't attract too much attention like 5 gallon buckets do. You should have seen me in THE HOME DEPOT rolling three 5 gallon HOME DEPOT buckets to the restroom to dump them, no wheels to move on their own and time expensive. With a blue HYDROLLER people will think I am just carrying freshwater and not chemical waste.

As for reinventing the wheel, I know better. Same for redefining, re-naming, and creating euphemisms for the wheel. Less Talk, More Walk.

 

[highdesertranger]

you bring up a good point here. so for this grey evaporation, when you are parked for extended periods like RTR, what are you going to do, start your van and run it to evaporate the water? diesel's have a very low exhaust gas temperature while idling. you're going to have to run it for hours I doubt it will ever get hot enough to actually evaporate water. what about the solids in the water? what is this going to do to our exhaust system? I say just go to a dump station. highdesertranger

 

[NeedAnEscape]

Why not get a large black plastic tray, and keep 0.5" of your waste water in it sitting in the sun?

 

[cognitive dissonance]

debit -

I read your entire original thread (with considerable horror!) and have now read this new thread.

Its cool that you want to innovate, but thus far you seem to have a lot of impractical ideas.  (You actually remind me of an old friend - he could get hurt watching clouds!) Pay attention to those "higher mileage" folks here (and that includes me) who have had the time and experiences to develop better judgment.

The fact that you nearly incinerated your first van (and your very own self) should be a huge wake-up call regarding your risk taking.  If you aren't acutely alarmed at the risks you took, get on the webz and check into what it's like to die of severe burns (or worse, to survive them!).

My two cents: don't modify a single thing on this new van until you've owned it for one full year. 

For your gray water, buy a six gallon water jug at Wally World for and just deal with it. Get a little folding dolly if you really need wheels. Forget the torch idea (you pyro, you!) and just deal with it. DO NOT modify your exhaust for this, EVER.

DO NOT attempt to burn waste oil as fuel. Waste engine and transmission oils carry minute metal wear particles that can and will wreak havoc with modern injection systems.  (The cost of doing it right will buy you hundreds of gallons of nice clean diesel fuel.  The cost of doing it wrong is even higher.)

And, since you're already carrying a tank of diesel fuel, look into a Webasto Airtop diesel fired heater.  They're a bit of money up front, but much more economical than propane and FAR less dangerous. 

Don't know how much actual thought you've given to a 55 gallon drum of water inside your van when you're rolling down the highway, but the static weight of said beast (filled) will be right at 500 pounds.  In a modest collision, say just 5 g's deceleration, you're looking at a 2500 pound moving object, inside your house!.  There's no way in hell I'd carry something like that without substantial anchoring.  Fortunately, that's a modification, and you aren't allowed to modify the van until you own it free and clear.

Also, I strongly suggest you call around and price major repairs. I don't know the vehicle history, but I'd be concerned about a transmission rebuild while you're on a trip, or having to replace a fuel pump, a turbo, fuel injectors or a set of glow plugs.  Get prices for that kind of stuff, from a Ford dealer (you'll be on the road - not the time to try and save money on repairs with a shade tree mechanic you don't know!) and you'll know how much of an emergency fund you should have when taking trips.

Then, take all the hours you spend every week on harebrained ideas, and use them to work a part time job!  You'll have your emergency fund before you know it!

I'll end with this: be deliriously happy with what you have. Seriously. You failed to cremate yourself, killed an old worn out heap that wasn't really worth putting money in, then lucked into a nice newer van. Count your blessings, and make do.

 

[ascii_man]

Seconding the Webasto; Espar (Americanization of Eberspaecher) offers similar units.

Actually both offer gasoline as well, but they're not as common.

 

[debit.servus]

...
For your gray water, buy a six gallon water jug at Wally World for and just deal with it. Get a little folding dolly if you really need wheels. Forget the torch idea (you pyro, you!) and just deal with it. DO NOT modify your exhaust for this, EVER.
Already ordered an 8 gallon RELIANCE Hydroller from jet.com (lowest price for it on the net, $35 with free shipping)
DO NOT attempt to burn waste oil as fuel. Waste engine and transmission oils carry minute metal wear particles that can and will wreak havoc with modern injection systems.  (The cost of doing it right will buy you hundreds of gallons of nice clean diesel fuel.  The cost of doing it wrong is even higher.)
Exactly, the cost to replace injectors due to running on dirty waste oil wipes out any and all fuel savings. Not worth the risk!

The plan is to buy a small stockpile of diesel fuel from the gas station while it's 50% off, and fuel the van with it after diesel and gas are over $4 a gallon.
I will bet $10 or 3 gallons of gas/diesel (whichever is lesser) that the gas and diesel will shoot back up to over $4 a gallon before June 1st, 2016.

And, since you're already carrying a tank of diesel fuel, look into a Webasto Airtop diesel fired heater.  They're a bit of money up front, but much more economical than propane and FAR less dangerous. 
Couldn't find it on a web search. Please link to a page that sells it.
Don't know how much actual thought you've given to a 55 gallon drum of water inside your van when you're rolling down the highway, but the static weight of said beast (filled) will be right at 500 pounds.  In a modest collision, say just 5 g's deceleration, you're looking at a 2500 pound moving object, inside your house!.  There's no way in hell I'd carry something like that without substantial anchoring.  Fortunately, that's a modification, and you aren't allowed to modify the van until you own it free and clear.
Then I should put it directly behind the travellers seat (drivers seat, we have a right to travel; no Government Travel Authorization (aka DRIVERS LICENSE) required)
Also, I strongly suggest you call around and price major repairs. The price is thou$$$$ands, I know that. I don't know the vehicle history, trans was rebuilt, major engine overhaul done just before he sold it. Should need no major service for 150,000 miles, plenty of time to save thousands for them. ...

 

[highdesertranger]

sure you have the right to travel, but driving is not a right it's a privilege. therefore the government can require you to have a drivers license. remember you don't need a car to travel. highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

sure you have the right to travel,  but driving is not a right it's a privilege.  therefore the government can require you to have a drivers license.  remember you don't need a car to travel.  highdesertranger

i'v alway disagreed with that

 

[cognitive dissonance]

Gary68 wrote: "i'v always disagreed with that"

As have I.  Unfortunately, government must eat to live, and we're the crop.  I wouldn't expect any armed/badged tax feeder you encounter to have any interest in (much less a grasp of) any lofty libertarian arguments.

Here's the reality: if you're stopped in a small town, said tax feeder may just happen to have a uncle/cousin/brother in the tow business who would be more than happy to impound your van and charge you three times the going rate for the tow plus the monthly rate for each day of storage.  (In a bigger city, the government will likely be in the tow/impound business for themselves, and the rates will be just as abusive...) 

Either way, if you can afford to get your van back, you have no right to be surprised if any personal possessions of value are missing and everyone involved is deeply puzzled as to why.

Be smart. Before you go on the road, have a current driver's license, current plates and current insurance.

Here's a link to a current Webasto Airtop auction on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Webasto-Air...ash=item235ccd730c:g:ScoAAOSwkNZUbkmj&vxp=mtr

To me, the point of a furnace is not to heat the van to 70 degrees so you can sleep in boxers and a t-shirt under one sheet in Montana in January.  I'm happy to take the edge off and be comfortable in a good sleeping bag. You will acclimate quickly, and eventually anything above freezing will do just fine.

To that end, the Webasto can run all night on low (2000 btu/hr) on one quart of diesel, and it only draws about 30 watts. That's incredibly efficient, and they're quiet too. When you're about to get up, you can turn it up on high for a few minutes and the van will be nice and toasty! 

The Eberspacher/Espar units are essentially identical, but Webasto seems to have the largest US dealer network.  There's also a Russian made version on ebay called the Planar that is two to three hundred dollars cheaper.  I have no experience with it, but based on how things are done in Russia I suspect it's essentially a Webasto clone, perfectly reliable but perhaps a little less refined. Caveat emptor and all that... 

I'm glad to hear the engine and transmission were gone through before you bought the van. Those are MAJOR expenses! If that were my van, I'd have the engine/trans/differential fluids replaced with the best synthetics right way, and then stay with maintenance intervals religiously.  In spite of the recent work on the van, you can trust Murphy to make an occasional appearance.  Have an emergency fund!

Finally, I'll take the bet on Diesel prices too!  Short term, there's little except the outbreak of a regional war that could push prices back that high.  I'd expect that to come closer to the election, and the conventions don't happen till late July.

August on, I wouldn't take that bet, but June 1st, you're on!

Good luck, and congrats again on the new ride!

 

[Gary68]

Does that mean that you would be OK with an 11 year old driving, someone with minimal vision, certain medical conditions or someone that has never been behind the wheel?

Guy

i was about that age when i was driving a tractor with 40 feet of irrigation pipe behind it sooo

no i dont have a problem with qualification and licensing except the price,tags are just a revenue stream and unnecessary

now back to debits 55 gallons of water in a van...

 

[GotSmart]

now back to debits 55 gallons of water in a van...

For firefighting purposes? 

55 gallons of water, 30 gallons of gasoline, 30 gallons of grey water  PLUS who knows how many gallons of diesel as a hedge against inflation. 

Somebody needs to have a long talk with that kid.  A short one will do no good.

 

[debit.servus]

DS:  "I will bet $10 or 3 gallons of gas/diesel (whichever is lesser) that the gas and diesel will shoot back up to over $4 a gallon before June 1st, 2016."

gsfish: Bet! Shall we use this website as a source of average price in US?
https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/


DS:   "Then I should put it directly behind the travellers seat (drivers seat, we have a right to travel; no Government Travel Authorization (aka DRIVERS LICENSE) required)"

gsfish:   Do you have a license? Do you consider yourself a "sovereign being"? This line of thinking can have serious consequences.
http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/how-to-drive-without-a-license/
...

We can use the average price.

DO have a DRIVERS LICENSE, easier to pay the mafia so they don't do the financial equivalent of breaking ones legs using their law system.

i'v alway disagreed with that

Mee too.

Does that mean that you would be OK with an 11 year old driving, someone with minimal vision, certain medical conditions or someone that has never been behind the wheel?

Guy

For practice yes.

 

[debit.servus]

Gary68 wrote: "i'v always disagreed with that"

As have I.  Unfortunately, government must eat to live, and we're the crop.  I wouldn't expect any armed/badged tax feeder you encounter to have any interest in (much less a grasp of) any lofty libertarian arguments.

Here's the reality: if you're stopped in a small town, said tax feeder may just happen to have a uncle/cousin/brother in the tow business who would be more than happy to impound your van and charge you three times the going rate for the tow plus the monthly rate for each day of storage.  (In a bigger city, the government will likely be in the tow/impound business for themselves, and the rates will be just as abusive...) 

Either way, if you can afford to get your van back, you have no right to be surprised if any personal possessions of value are missing and everyone involved is deeply puzzled as to why.

Be smart. Before you go on the road, have a current driver's license, current plates and current insurance.

i was about that age when i was driving a tractor with 40 feet of irrigation pipe behind it sooo

no i dont have a problem with qualification and licensing except the price,tags are just a revenue stream and unnecessary
...

Maybe basic licensing, but the government shouldn't get to decide who travels and who doesn't. Same for which cars get to be on the road. Economics will get the beaters and "gross polluters" off the road in due time.

For firefighting purposes? 

55 gallons of water, 30 gallons of gasoline, 30 gallons of grey water  PLUS who knows how many gallons of diesel as a hedge against inflation. 

Somebody needs to have a long talk with that kid.  A short one will do no good.

No, for evaporative cooling and hydronic heating/cooling purpouses. Plus the benefit of not needing to think about fetching water every fourth day. Remember I don't have to have it filled to the brim everytime either.

The 30 gallons of gas was bought before I got the FORD van, now that I'll be running on diesel planning to fuel dads minivan with that gas. Then use the gas cans for diesel as it's 50% off right now.
It's going to be more like 8 gallons of greywater, RELIANCE HYDROLLER is on it's way from Jet.com.

22 gallons of diesel will get the FORD about 400 miles. So 140 gallons of diesel is 2540 miles of travel give or take. Plus diesel is much safer to store than gas, it won't ignite at room temperature and doesn't vaporize too much unlike gasoline. It stores like cooking oil, one can store diesel in 5 gallon buckets or 275 gallon IBC totes. I feel comfortable storing a few drums of diesel (NOT in the van), unlike gasoline.

Love the fallacies with people who will travel across town to save 50 cents on a can of soup but won't buy extra fuel while it's 50% off at the pump. Talk about stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

Well I achieved my goal, and met my commitment! The commitment being Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gasoline.

No long talk required!

 

[debit.servus]

I don't remember diesel being a part of your commitment, I don't even remember a mention of diesel until three days ago. here's the way I remember it..
"Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gas. I will be running on wood by the start of June, 2016"

And THAT'S............ the REST of the story.

Guy

I got off on a technicality. Because the FORD doesn't run on gas, therefore future trips will be on diesel. So Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gas. I didn't say "Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on petroleum products.", I said "Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gas.". So I met my commitment to not run on gas to fuel future trips.

Took the FORD out yesterday, after finally getting it registered and insured. Filled the tank at $2.99 a gallon, 25.50 gallons for about $75 (what a shock, sale is ending; diesel is now 25% off. Gotta fill those barrels up ASAP before diesel goes back to $4 a gallon!!!), paid out of my pocket (no parental fuel subsidy today). Noticed the power of the 7.3L engine, kind of like a sports car. Was fun to floor it on green, then hear the engine roar at I get up to speed limit. The best part was rolling coal, as I entered CA 87 from Capital Expressway going 0-60 in 15 seconds (for a big ass van)! This rig has a quieter ride so I was going faster than I thought, 60 MPH felt like 40 MPH; so used to the DODGE which accelerates like a city bus.

18 MPG will make the fuel cost of my Canadian summer swallow-able, as I know it's possible for vans like this to get 100+ MPG. The Oil Monopoly doesn't even want us to have uber-efficient cars, let alone over-unity (Which IS possible). We should all have fully-electric cars powered by toroidal energy boxes of wireless electricity by now, the tech was invented over 100 years ago and got suppressed by the Powers That Be.

 

[GotSmart]

I don't remember diesel being a part of your commitment, I don't even remember a mention of diesel until three days ago. here's the way I remember it..
"Burning Man 2015 is my LAST trip running on gas. I will be running on wood by the start of June, 2016"

And THAT'S............ the REST of the story.

Guy

No technicality.    

I will be running on wood by the start of June, 2016"

You said it.

If I were judging a debate and the statement was made, (Proven false) the point would go to the other team.  

If you keep hot rodding the diesel, it will be getting "0" MPG.  

Just remember, what you "know" and what you can "prove" are two different things.