2 Deep Cycle Batteries Down the Drain

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ttpadilla

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I decided to jump off of East's Thread, as my issues don't seem to be "on-topic" for that thread. I did not use the inverter at all last night, but had the refrigerator on propane, which would draw some battery for the igniter, and of course, the CO and Propane monitors which I don't know how to shut off. I would remove them, but I'm planning to trade this vehicle in at the earliest opportunity, and the recipient might want them. Anyway, by about 10:30 this morning, I could hear that my water pump power was low when I was washing dishes, and about 11:45am the CO alarm started up with its low battery warning beep (which is WAY too loud, btw). I hooked up my suitcase solar to the deep cycle batteries, and even with these heavy clouds, the occasional rays of sunshine peeking through have been enough to silence the CO alarm. Currently, charging at 13.3v, 5.5amps, but when the clouds cover the sun, it drops down to 10.0v, 0.6amps. Anyway, within 30 minutes, my battery monitor says my batteries are fully charged, which has to be BS, right? Regardless, it looks like these batts aren't holding a charge, as was surmised on the other thread, and will both have to be replaced? Or can I just leave them attached to the solar panel once I get to my campsite, and limp along through the summer until I can trade this albatross in?

Another question: The guy who helped me at Lake Shasta, advised that I charge both batteries at once with the panel, using the positive connection of one battery, and the negative connection of the other. He's been doing that on his own rig, so I assumed it was brilliant, but is it? Or might I have damaged the batteries by doing that?

Thank you in advance for your input.
 
Are you charging your batteries while driving? How much driving do you do and how often?

If you're not charging while driving or not driving enough, then I'd be making a home built 12v gas generator. I used mine for 20+ years before starting to charge while driving. I built mine with used parts for under $20, and it was one of the best investments I ever made.

I don't recall what type of rig you have, please refresh my memory.
 
Well, wrote a reply and hit the wrong button.  Here we go again.

First, your CO and propane monitors are hardwired into your 12V system.  They are very important to have and I would not disconnect them.  Besides, they use milliamps.  Together, mine use 2.5 amps in 24 hours.

If your batteries were only disconnected while in storage and never charged regularly, they may have lost some of their capacity.  Batteries self-discharge and must be boosted occasionally.  How often depends on the battery and temperature.

Now you are dealing with cloudy weather and not getting enough amps or voltage to charge your batteries properly.  Your charge controller may not be getting enough voltage for bulk and absorb modes, ie 14.4-14.6 volts for a period of time determined by your particular controller.  Your batteries need the higher voltage to push the amps in.  It sounds like the batteries are getting undercharged and walking down in capacity even further.

I don't think charging two paralled batteries is a problem but someone else can chime in on that.
You could:  Go to a campground that has hookups and stay for a couple of days to allow your converter/charger to charge your batteries.  Or go to an automotive place and have them charge them for you.  If it was me, I would bite the bullet and buy two batteries because I would be tired of fighting it by now.  If you are going to sell it, you could buy some inexpensive ones to get you through.

Wishing you plenty of sunshine soon!
 
Well, wrote a reply and hit the wrong button.  Here we go again.

First, your CO and propane monitors are hardwired into your 12V system.  They are very important to have and I would not disconnect them.  Besides, they use milliamps.  Together, mine use 2.5 amps in 24 hours.

If your batteries were only disconnected while in storage and never charged regularly, they may have lost some of their capacity.  Batteries self-discharge and must be boosted occasionally.  How much depends on the battery and temperature.

Now you are dealing with cloudy weather and not getting enough amps or voltage to charge your batteries properly.  Your charge controller may not be getting enough voltage for bulk and absorb modes, ie 14.4-14.6 volts for a period of time determined by your particular controller.  Your batteries need the higher voltage to push the amps in.  It sounds like the batteries are getting undercharged and walking down in capacity even further.  I just did this to my batteries while at the beach for a few days.  A good charge at home took care of them.

I don't think charging two paralled batteries is a problem but someone else can chime in on that.
You could:  Go to a campground that has hookups and stay for a couple of days to allow your converter/charger to charge your batteries.  Or go to an automotive place and have them charge them for you.  If it was me, I would bite the bullet and buy two batteries because I would be tired of fighting it by now.  If you are going to sell it, you could buy some inexpensive ones to get you through.

Wishing you plenty of sunshine soon!
 
Sorry about the double post.  Tried to add something.  I cannot hit the keys right today! I also meant to say that you cannot trust the battery monitor on the panel. As soon as your batteries reach 12.6 or something like it, the monitor will show they are full. However, you were charging the batteries at the time which would not give an accurate reading anyway.
 
how old are the batteries? are they full of water? are they 6volt or 12v? highdesertranger
 
When two batteries are wired in parallel, all charging sources and Loads should attach to the  (+) of one battery and all (-) charging sources or loads to the other battery.  If both load/charge cables goto just one battery, that battery has to work significantly harder, and will degrade faster.

Watch this:




 The batteries in this topic have just crossed that 'Just Fine" and 'Still going strong"  grey area into the 'Hmm something is wrong what do I do?' Area.

For most everyone, it is one or the other, and no In between.


These batteries need some intense charging to attempt to restore Specific gravity up to the 1.275 level, or higher.


No low and slow solar is going to do it, you can't try and continue cycling these batteries until they are recharged, and an attempt is tried to get specific gravity up.  Your only hope of making them last another 6 months, is with an Equalization cycle, and better recharging practices if they do respond to the Equalization.

First, 

If the cells are low on water, fill them with distilled water, but only enough to cover the plates and 2MM or so above, not all the way full.
Ideally, Each 12v  flooded battery should be individually put on a charging source, of no less than 10 amps until battery voltage rises to 14.8, or there abouts.

There is the possibility of a shorted Cell.  One should unparallel the batteries and see if one jumps back upto ~12.0 in an hour or so,  and the other stays at 10.5.  if this is the case, Do not try and attempt to recharge the 10.5v or less battery.

There is also the possiblity of one cell giving up only under load.  The battery under a minor say 3 amps load might drop to 10.5v or less, and instantly rebound to ~12.x when the load is removed.  I had one 12v battery die this way.  If the battery behaves like this, make no attempt to recharge it.
  Often if one cell in a pair of 12v batteries in parallel fails, the reduced capacity is not noticed until the other battery degrades, and it will degrade much faster when paralleled to a battery with a shorted cell.  The sooner you can remove the battery with the shorted cell from a paralled bank of batteries, the better.

6v GC batteries in series will not kill each other if a cell shorts, but it will only be a 10.5v nominal bank of batteries and the 5 other cells will work much harder.  Unfortunately one should not just replace  one 6v battery when it fails, but replace both.


After the 10 amp plus charging source has gotten the battery upto 14.8v for 2 hours, then one needs to perform an Equalization charge on the battery.  One needs at least 5 amps to push a 100 amp hour battery up to 16 volts.   Battery Voltage should not be allowed to exceed 16 volts.  A hydrometer, NOT the useless floating ball type, or the plastic type, but the Glass turkey baster style with glass float  like the OTC 4619.

All 6 cells should be dipped and readings recorded. Make sure no bubbles stick to the float when taking a reading.
 One is hoping to see 1.275 or higher, but do not be surprised to see 1.215 or less, EVEN AFTER after the battery was held at 14.8v for 2 hours or longer.
 After this 'full' charge then one needs to be able to bring the battery up to an even higher voltage.
When one applies a charging source which is trying to bring the battery upto ideally 16.0 v but a minimum of 15.5 volts, the battery will gurgle and bubble, and start to warm up slowly.  This is where one is trying for force the lead sulfate back into the electrolyte, and heat is a good thing, the bubbling and gurgling are a good thing too as it is stirring the electrolyte and trying to abrade the sulfates occluding the plates.

But do not let the battery exceed 120 degrees F.  Stop charging when Specific gravity no longer rises.  Also to note is SG readings are efffected by temperature.  The level on the float might not keep rising, but when the temperature rise is factored in, it is still rising. 

The OTC hydrometer:
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO

has a little thermometer on it which will say to subtract X amount or add X amount depending on temperature.  It takes while for the rubber base to come up to temperature.  The cells on the interior of the batteries will warm up faster, so take this into account too when writing down readings.

One can just dip the weakest cells instead of all 12 every time, but one should check SG every 15 minutes.  This can take upto 6 hours

If all the cells get up above 1.270, congratulations you might easily get 6 more months from them.  If one or two remain under this point, all is not lost.  They could last a bit longer with a weak cell or two.

If they do not respond, then start searching for batteries.  Often Golf courses sell  or just exchange their GolfCart batteries when they only have 80% or their original capacity, and one can still get many cycles from these in rv use.  They are also a good place to get new batteries from when they place a large order

Yes, Equalization is a rather involved procedure, and No it is not easy to obtain a charging source that can bring a battery above 15 volts.

One can wire their 100 watt or greater solar panel directly to the battery terminals, but the battery cannot have anything else attached and not allowed to exceed 16V.  It should be allowed to sit at 14.8 for two hours before being pushed upto 16V.

Some charge controllers allow the voltage to go this high.  Remove all loads on an individual battery and let the controller do 14.8 for two hours then reprogram it as high as possible, upto 16v.  Obviously one needs good sun and preferably 6 hours of it.

RV converters cannot do an Equalization charge, though some make this false claim.  RV converters are a cause of premature batter failure as they do not go to high enough voltage or hold it long enough.  Too long and too thin of wiring is a big contributing factor for poor converter performance.  Upgrading the copper is beneficial in more than one way for not only minimal voltage drop, but for allowing the converter to hold the higher voltage for longer, as the battery wants 99 times out of a hundred.

Some Automatic battery chargers can do 16 volts.  Some do it even when it is not desired.  Old school manual chargers can do it, but slowly, and need to be monitored, and it might take days.

Most of my posts in this electrical forum are to keep this situation happening in the first place.  As batteries get worked they lose capacity. As they lose capacity, and one does not lessen their amount of electricity required, the batteries are in fact being cycled deeper and deeper, in terms of percentage.  As they get cycled deeper and deeper they get damaged even faster, and at some point they just give up, murdered.

Proper battery charging can greatly extend the lifespan of batteries.  Monthly Equalization charges can easily double battery life when the battery is cycled each and every day.  
It that worth it to you?

When performed every 30 cycles, the procedure takes much less time and need not be monitored as closely.



If one wants to know how to simply turn a dial and bring a battery upto 16 volts when grid power is available, check out 'my newest electrical toy thread'.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-My-newest-electrical-toy

Those relying on  generators,  can really benefit from such an adjustable voltage power supply as it will hold the battery at whatever voltage you choose for as long as you choose to run the generator.  An RV converter will decide to lower to float voltage prematurely, to the serious detriment of the battery.

Only Lifeline AGM batteries condone and recommend a 'conditioning' procedure, which is similar to an Equalization cycle on a flooded battery.

Other AGMs will not say it is recommended and say to not attempt, but with careful management and observation, can be done too in an attempt to wake up an abused  AGM battery to get some more service from it.

Read Lifeline's tech sheet PDF closely and do not exceed their recommendations, if one want to attempt to 'condition', any other brand AGM.

Thermal runaway is a valid concern and can have consequences.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf


I know that those wheeled chargers at Auto mechanics certainly look impressive.  Often, they are not.  Restoring maximum specific gravity is not as easy as just slapping on an impressive wheeled charger.

My 'newest electrical toy' is a fraction of their size, and more powerful and more effective than most any of them.
 
Off Grid 24/7 said:
Are you charging your batteries while driving?  How much driving do you do and how often?

If you're not charging while driving or not driving enough, then I'd be making a home built 12v gas generator.  I used mine for 20+ years before starting to charge while driving.  I built mine with used parts for under $20, and it was one of the best investments I ever made.

I don't recall what type  of rig you have, please refresh my memory.

I am driving a Class A Bounder, 28' long. I am not driving very often right now, as I'm in Sacramento area visiting family and friends. I drove it for 4 hours last Sunday, 1.5 hours on Monday, an hour on Wednesday, some short hops plus an hour yesterday, and nothing today. But I wasn't having any trouble with them staying charged until the day the guy at Shasta helped me, so I cant tell if it's because the refrigerator is now running and wasn't before, or if the batteries were messed up during the "maintenance" or if it's related to the solar panel. Today I had hours of sunshine later in the afternoon, and batteries were showing GOOD, and I went out for a few hours, and came back after sundown, and the refrigerator had shut off, and the batteries were down to 1/2. I think I'm going to have to take it in to get both batts replaced.
 
Bela said:
Well, wrote a reply and hit the wrong button.  Here we go again.

First, your CO and propane monitors are hardwired into your 12V system.  They are very important to have and I would not disconnect them.  Besides, they use milliamps.  Together, mine use 2.5 amps in 24 hours.

If your batteries were only disconnected while in storage and never charged regularly, they may have lost some of their capacity.  Batteries self-discharge and must be boosted occasionally.  How much depends on the battery and temperature.

Now you are dealing with cloudy weather and not getting enough amps or voltage to charge your batteries properly.  Your charge controller may not be getting enough voltage for bulk and absorb modes, ie 14.4-14.6 volts for a period of time determined by your particular controller.  Your batteries need the higher voltage to push the amps in.  It sounds like the batteries are getting undercharged and walking down in capacity even further.  I just did this to my batteries while at the beach for a few days.  A good charge at home took care of them.

I don't think charging two paralled batteries is a problem but someone else can chime in on that.
You could:  Go to a campground that has hookups and stay for a couple of days to allow your converter/charger to charge your batteries.  Or go to an automotive place and have them charge them for you.  If it was me, I would bite the bullet and buy two batteries because I would be tired of fighting it by now.  If you are going to sell it, you could buy some inexpensive ones to get you through.

Wishing you plenty of sunshine soon!

Thanks, Jo, I think I will just buy the new batteries!
 
highdesertranger said:
how old are the batteries?  are they full of water?  are they 6volt or 12v?  highdesertranger

I don't know how old they are, but the water levels were perfect, last Friday. They are 12v, group 24.
 
SternWake said:
When two batteries are wired in parallel, all charging sources and Loads should attach to the  (+) of one battery and all (-) charging sources or loads to the other battery.  If both load/charge cables goto just one battery, that battery has to work significantly harder, and will degrade faster.

Watch this:




 The batteries in this topic have just crossed that 'Just Fine" and 'Still going strong"  grey area into the 'Hmm something is wrong what do I do?' Area.

For most everyone, it is one or the other, and no In between.


These batteries need some intense charging to attempt to restore Specific gravity up to the 1.275 level, or higher.


No low and slow solar is going to do it, you can't try and continue cycling these batteries until they are recharged, and an attempt is tried to get specific gravity up.  Your only hope of making them last another 6 months, is with an Equalization cycle, and better recharging practices if they do respond to the Equalization.

First, 

If the cells are low on water, fill them with distilled water, but only enough to cover the plates and 2MM or so above, not all the way full.
Ideally, Each 12v  flooded battery should be individually put on a charging source, of no less than 10 amps until battery voltage rises to 14.8, or there abouts.

There is the possibility of a shorted Cell.  One should unparallel the batteries and see if one jumps back upto ~12.0 in an hour or so,  and the other stays at 10.5.  if this is the case, Do not try and attempt to recharge the 10.5v or less battery.

There is also the possiblity of one cell giving up only under load.  The battery under a minor say 3 amps load might drop to 10.5v or less, and instantly rebound to ~12.x when the load is removed.  I had one 12v battery die this way.  If the battery behaves like this, make no attempt to recharge it.
  Often if one cell in a pair of 12v batteries in parallel fails, the reduced capacity is not noticed until the other battery degrades, and it will degrade much faster when paralleled to a battery with a shorted cell.  The sooner you can remove the battery with the shorted cell from a paralled bank of batteries, the better.

6v GC batteries in series will not kill each other if a cell shorts, but it will only be a 10.5v nominal bank of batteries and the 5 other cells will work much harder.  Unfortunately one should not just replace  one 6v battery when it fails, but replace both.


After the 10 amp plus charging source has gotten the battery upto 14.8v for 2 hours, then one needs to perform an Equalization charge on the battery.  One needs at least 5 amps to push a 100 amp hour battery up to 16 volts.   Battery Voltage should not be allowed to exceed 16 volts.  A hydrometer, NOT the useless floating ball type, or the plastic type, but the Glass turkey baster style with glass float  like the OTC 4619.

All 6 cells should be dipped and readings recorded. Make sure no bubbles stick to the float when taking a reading.
 One is hoping to see 1.275 or higher, but do not be surprised to see 1.215 or less, EVEN AFTER after the battery was held at 14.8v for 2 hours or longer.
 After this 'full' charge then one needs to be able to bring the battery up to an even higher voltage.
When one applies a charging source which is trying to bring the battery upto ideally 16.0 v but a minimum of 15.5 volts, the battery will gurgle and bubble, and start to warm up slowly.  This is where one is trying for force the lead sulfate back into the electrolyte, and heat is a good thing, the bubbling and gurgling are a good thing too as it is stirring the electrolyte and trying to abrade the sulfates occluding the plates.

But do not let the battery exceed 120 degrees F.  Stop charging when Specific gravity no longer rises.  Also to note is SG readings are efffected by temperature.  The level on the float might not keep rising, but when the temperature rise is factored in, it is still rising. 

The OTC hydrometer:
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Professional-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0050SFVHO

has a little thermometer on it which will say to subtract X amount or add X amount depending on temperature.  It takes while for the rubber base to come up to temperature.  The cells on the interior of the batteries will warm up faster, so take this into account too when writing down readings.

One can just dip the weakest cells instead of all 12 every time, but one should check SG every 15 minutes.  This can take upto 6 hours

If all the cells get up above 1.270, congratulations you might easily get 6 more months from them.  If one or two remain under this point, all is not lost.  They could last a bit longer with a weak cell or two.

If they do not respond, then start searching for batteries.  Often Golf courses sell  or just exchange their GolfCart batteries when they only have 80% or their original capacity, and one can still get many cycles from these in rv use.  They are also a good place to get new batteries from when they place a large order

Yes, Equalization is a rather involved procedure, and No it is not easy to obtain a charging source that can bring a battery above 15 volts.

One can wire their 100 watt or greater solar panel directly to the battery terminals, but the battery cannot have anything else attached and not allowed to exceed 16V.  It should be allowed to sit at 14.8 for two hours before being pushed upto 16V.

Some charge controllers allow the voltage to go this high.  Remove all loads on an individual battery and let the controller do 14.8 for two hours then reprogram it as high as possible, upto 16v.  Obviously one needs good sun and preferably 6 hours of it.

RV converters cannot do an Equalization charge, though some make this false claim.  RV converters are a cause of premature batter failure as they do not go to high enough voltage or hold it long enough.  Too long and too thin of wiring is a big contributing factor for poor converter performance.  Upgrading the copper is beneficial in more than one way for not only minimal voltage drop, but for allowing the converter to hold the higher voltage for longer, as the battery wants 99 times out of a hundred.

Some Automatic battery chargers can do 16 volts.  Some do it even when it is not desired.  Old school manual chargers can do it, but slowly, and need to be monitored, and it might take days.

Most of my posts in this electrical forum are to keep this situation happening in the first place.  As batteries get worked they lose capacity. As they lose capacity, and one does not lessen their amount of electricity required, the batteries are in fact being cycled deeper and deeper, in terms of percentage.  As they get cycled deeper and deeper they get damaged even faster, and at some point they just give up, murdered.

Proper battery charging can greatly extend the lifespan of batteries.  Monthly Equalization charges can easily double battery life when the battery is cycled each and every day.  
It that worth it to you?

When performed every 30 cycles, the procedure takes much less time and need not be monitored as closely.



If one wants to know how to simply turn a dial and bring a battery upto 16 volts when grid power is available, check out 'my newest electrical toy thread'.

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-My-newest-electrical-toy

Those relying on  generators,  can really benefit from such an adjustable voltage power supply as it will hold the battery at whatever voltage you choose for as long as you choose to run the generator.  An RV converter will decide to lower to float voltage prematurely, to the serious detriment of the battery.

Only Lifeline AGM batteries condone and recommend a 'conditioning' procedure, which is similar to an Equalization cycle on a flooded battery.

Other AGMs will not say it is recommended and say to not attempt, but with careful management and observation, can be done too in an attempt to wake up an abused  AGM battery to get some more service from it.

Read Lifeline's tech sheet PDF closely and do not exceed their recommendations, if one want to attempt to 'condition', any other brand AGM.

Thermal runaway is a valid concern and can have consequences.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf


I know that those wheeled chargers at Auto mechanics certainly look impressive.  Often, they are not.  Restoring maximum specific gravity is not as easy as just slapping on an impressive wheeled charger.

My 'newest electrical toy' is a fraction of their size, and more powerful and more effective than most any of them.


Well, damn. I had no idea there was so much to batteries and their maintenance! Thank you, so much, for this very thorough, and informative post.
 
Glad to be of help.

An Additional FYI, group 24 batteries have ~80AH capacity so 160 for the pair.


6v Golf cart batteries have the same footprint, but are about 2 inches taller and have 220 AH of capacity and are a much more durable deep cycle battery.

They do not cost much more, if any more, than a marine group 24.


Your fridge might be running the heating unit on 12volts.  Absorption fridges run on 12V is extremely inefficient.  The circuit board draws some, but if the heating element is running on 12v it will kill your batteries in under 6 hours.  They are only designed to run on 12V when the vehicle is in motion and the alternator is providing the necessary current.

Some fridges also have self defrost features, which are battery wasters too.

When your battery wires were moved to opposite ends of the parallel batteries, the fridge could have reverted to 12V and sucked your batteries dry.

Or your batteries are just old, chronically undercharged and due to be replaced.

Anybody knowledgeable person buying your rig and seeing 2 recent golf cart batteries, is going to be much more impressed than seeing two group 24 marine batteries.

Best of luck, Make sure to run that absorption refer on 120v, or propane.
 
SternWake said:
Glad to be of help.

An Additional FYI, group 24 batteries have ~80AH capacity so 160 for the pair.


6v Golf cart batteries have the same footprint, but are about 2 inches taller and have 220 AH of capacity and are a much more durable deep cycle battery.

They do not cost much more, if any more, than a marine group 24.


Your fridge might be running the heating unit on 12volts.  Absorption fridges run on 12V is extremely inefficient.  The circuit board draws some, but if the heating element is running on 12v it will kill your batteries in under 6 hours.  They are only designed to run on 12V when the vehicle is in motion and the alternator is providing the necessary current.

Some fridges also have self defrost features, which are battery wasters too.

When your battery wires were moved to opposite ends of the parallel batteries, the fridge could have reverted to 12V and sucked your batteries dry.

Or your batteries are just old, chronically undercharged and due to be replaced.

Anybody knowledgeable person buying your rig and seeing 2 recent golf cart batteries, is going to be much more impressed than seeing two group 24 marine batteries.

Best of luck, Make sure to run that absorption refer on 120v, or propane.

This refer doesn't have a 12v option, but does require 12v for the igniter while it's on propane, which is what it's running on now. Good call on the "Climate Control" switch, I hadn't even considered that, and just shut it off.

I did consider putting in two 6v, but was told there wasn't enough room for them, however, if they have the same footprint, even I can see that there are 2" of clearance above what I have now, so I'll have a pro double-check when I take this in for battery replacement. I'm not messing around trying to do this myself right now. Don't need anymore trouble down the road.

Thank you, again!
 
Stern wake - thanks for explaining 160 ah versus 220 ah for the comparison. Would rather use the golf cart batteries to get the 60ah extra additional capacity with the same foot print. Just need to connect them in series to get 12v.
 
Stern wake - on that video above, it turned confusing. He is saying obviously the batteries need to be connected to parallel to maintain 12v circuit. But that because they draw off the first battery, via improper connection to it, it's COLD CRANKING AMPS dropped over time and caused a an unbalanced battery bank. That the proper connection is off one end of the bank positive terminal, and the other end of the bank negative terminal. That assumes 12v batteries.

Looks like the minimal resistant of the battery connector cables was enough to cause the first battery to be discharged first. When improperly connected.
 
offroad said:
Stern wake - on that video above, it turned confusing.  He is saying obviously the batteries need to be connected to parallel to maintain 12v circuit. But that because they draw off the first battery, via improper connection to it, it's COLD CRANKING AMPS dropped over time and caused a an unbalanced battery bank. That the proper connection is off one end of the bank positive terminal, and the other end of the bank negative terminal. That assumes 12v batteries.

Looks like the minimal resistant of the battery connector cables was enough to cause the first battery to be discharged first. When improperly connected.

If you're curious about the numbers, Smartgauge has the best explanation I've ever seen.  Lots of other good info on this site as well.

Regards
John
 
Nana, even with new batteries it will be important for you to know how many amp hours you are using each day.

 Your rig is only a few years older than mine so I would imagine that we have some similar appliances.  As I said, my CO and propane monitors use about 2.5 amp hours in 24 hours.  My fridge on propane uses .5 amp per hour so 12 amp hours in 24 hours.  So just using the numbers for the appliances that are on all of the time, that is 14.5 amp hours per day out of the battery.  Then there are the other loads that you use intermittently, ie, water pump, lights, phone/laptop charging, etc.  It is important to chart these and the number of hours you use them so that you can keep up with usage.  If your panel produces 5.5 amps for 4 hours, that is 22 amp hours back into your battery.  

Let's say that you used 25 amp hours yesterday.  You put your panels out and see 5.5 amps for two hours, however, you see it drop constantly due to cloudy weather.  You will not get the 25 amps hours back into the battery and you are still using at least .60 amps per hour for the fridge and monitors.  

This is just an example of how even a new battery can walk down in capacity from undercharging.  I made a list of the watts/amps that my appliances use.  It is not exact as I used the numbers from the manufacturer; don't have a kill-a-watt meter nor the money to buy one at this time.  But it allowed me to make a list of appliances and their power requirements, along with the hours/minutes that I will use them so that I can adjust if sunshine is not available and solar charging is all that I have at the time.

I hope this helps a little bit.    
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
If you're curious about the numbers, Smartgauge has the best explanation I've ever seen.  Lots of other good info on this site as well.

Regards
John

Thanks john. Perfect explanation. Now need to find a page that shows how two 6v batteries from a golf cart are connected and charged for maximum balance. If there are any tricks and tips. As series connection is used but there should be some good guide somewhere.
 
Batteries don't die, they are murdered by the owners.
 
Bela said:
Nana, even with new batteries it will be important for you to know how many amp hours you are using each day.

 Your rig is only a few years older than mine so I would imagine that we have some similar appliances.  As I said, my CO and propane monitors use about 2.5 amp hours in 24 hours.  My fridge on propane uses .5 amp per hour so 12 amp hours in 24 hours.  So just using the numbers for the appliances that are on all of the time, that is 14.5 amp hours per day out of the battery.  Then there are the other loads that you use intermittently, ie, water pump, lights, phone/laptop charging, etc.  It is important to chart these and the number of hours you use them so that you can keep up with usage.  If your panel produces 5.5 amps for 4 hours, that is 22 amp hours back into your battery.  

Let's say that you used 25 amp hours yesterday.  You put your panels out and see 5.5 amps for two hours, however, you see it drop constantly due to cloudy weather.  You will not get the 25 amps hours back into the battery and you are still using at least .60 amps per hour for the fridge and monitors.  

This is just an example of how even a new battery can walk down in capacity from undercharging.  I made a list of the watts/amps that my appliances use.  It is not exact as I used the numbers from the manufacturer; don't have a kill-a-watt meter nor the money to buy one at this time.  But it allowed me to make a list of appliances and their power requirements, along with the hours/minutes that I will use them so that I can adjust if sunshine is not available and solar charging is all that I have at the time.

I hope this helps a little bit.    

It helps immensely, thank you! I have shore power where I'm going to be workamping. Should I leave the batteries ON while hooked up to it, or OFF? While I'm in town, I'm using an extension cord from my friend's house to charge my laptop/phone, and plan to get a separate charging station for that purpose so I'm not drawing off the house batteries in the future. I've turned off the "climate control" on the fridge, hoping to reduce the draw there, and other than that, I don't think there's much else I can do when not at FHUs. New batteries are a must, though, as these poor things are shot.
 

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