1989 Dodge B150 Shorty

[skyl4rk]

How did you do the 4x4 conversion?

 

[masterplumber]

I remember you had something like 3 vans, one being a 4x4. Glad to see you got the parts moved over. Are you still going to keep the shorty, even though you have the class B? I sure would if possible, even if it's just for short trips to the boonies.

 

[steamjam1]

I remember you had something like 3 vans, one being a 4x4. Glad to see you got the parts moved over. Are you still going to keep the shorty, even though you have the class B? I sure would if possible, even if it's just for short trips to the boonies.

Yes I did. I got rid of them all cept for the Van Charger. I'm going to keep the shorty. Its turned out to be a half-way-decent off road van.

 

[steamjam1]

How did you do the 4x4 conversion?

It was a pain in the *ss that turned into a six-month odyssey because I could only work on it like three or four hours per week so it was incremental progress at best.

I did the rear first:
[img=301x169]http://oi60.tinypic.com/15psh1j.jpg[/img]

Removed all the 2wd front parts:
[img=301x169]http://oi60.tinypic.com/vg1w29.jpg[/img]

Rolled the new front end in:
[img=301x179]http://oi57.tinypic.com/2l9076f.jpg[/img]

Measured once, twice, drank a beer an measured a third time. Tack welded the Radius arm drop brackets in. Measured three more times to get things perfectly square, then finish welded.
[img=301x169]http://oi68.tinypic.com/25ulbut.jpg[/img]

After the first test drive as a 4x4. Man I am happy I did it.

However, I'm not ever doing a 4x4 conversion to a Dodge ever again. The frame horns are not well suited for it, and it took me a BUNCH of time to get it right. The front end articulation is very limited because of the design of the frame horns. It works well for shallow ruts and mild off road such as sandy beaches, dirt roads, mud, or shallow water crossings. But I wouldn't do more then that. Soon after this pic was taken I converted a Chevy G30 van to 4x4 and it took 1/100 the time because the frame horn was much better suited for 4x4 axles.

I'm actually shopping around for another Ford Econoline. After I looked under my Econoline RV I realized that a Ford would be the easiest of all to convert to 4x4 so I am going to try it. This time using only junk yard sourced Ford truck parts. For both the Van charger and the G30 4x4, I used a mix-mash of parts that got pretty expensive, and the next 4x4 RV/van, I wanna do on the cheap.

 

[steamjam1]

Oh yeah I just wanted to add. I used a wrecked Van Charger as a template. I meticulously copied everything to the point where I was mimicking the at-times sloppy welding in certain places. So hopefully, even the most knowledgeable Van-Charger aficionado won't be able to tell its not an original. Yeah. I kinda went over-board with this whole thing.

 

[TMG51]

Measured once, twice, drank a beer an measured a third time. Tack welded the Radius arm drop brackets in. Measured three more times to get things perfectly square, then finish welded.

Oh yeah I just wanted to add. I used a wrecked Van Charger as a template. I meticulously copied everything to the point where I was mimicking the at-times sloppy welding in certain places. So hopefully, even the most knowledgeable Van-Charger aficionado won't be able to tell its not an original. Yeah. I kinda went over-board with this whole thing.

Well clearly there's a lesson here to be learned. Next time, weld on two beers.

 

[masterplumber]

If I were to do a Ford myself, I would order brackets etc... from here.
http://ujointoffroad.com/
He has a proven track record and it would save a ton of time. I think he has kits for both 7.3 and 5.4 engines.

 

[highdesertranger]

I noticed that you used a Ford front axle. how was it adapting a from a Ford transfer case to a Dodge transmission? what transfer case did you use? what adapter? that looks like a Dana 44 front axle, is that correct? how did you adapt the Dodge 2wd steering to the Ford 4wd Axle? highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

I noticed that you used a Ford front axle.  how was it adapting a from a Ford transfer case to a Dodge transmission?  what transfer case did you use?  what adapter?  that looks like a Dana  44 front axle,  is that correct?  how did you adapt the Dodge 2wd steering to the Ford 4wd Axle?  highdesertranger

While the front axle is a Dana-44, it is not from a Ford. They were specially made for Pathfinder back in the day and they are a few inches wider then the Ford. Basically, its a 44 made to Dana-60 width.

Pathfinder made a special adapter/output shaft that mated a Ford NP205 to A727. Thats what my van has in it. On newer A518 dodges, NP205 and BW1356 are direct replacements for 231/241DLD when you get the shaft coupler. My old Quigley-Dodge 4x4 van had that exact set up. Although the NP205 is bullet proof, I am gong to upgrade the transfer case in my dodge to a fixed yoke BW1356 out of a Bronco. It has the better 4-Lo range and weights half as much as the 'ol 205.

Adapting the steering was easy. I used an old high steer kit I bought used, Chevy tie rod on the axle side, and threaded the box side for the stock Dodge tie rod to the original Dodge pitman arm. I was worried about the steering geometry at first, but it turned out pretty good with little angle change in the steering link. I get virtually no bump steer going down the road.

 

[steamjam1]

If I were to do a Ford myself, I would order brackets etc... from here.
http://ujointoffroad.com/
He has a proven track record and it would save a ton of time. I think he has kits for both 7.3 and 5.4 engines.

Yes, I like his design/product. I just don't want to fork out 10G's for something I can do for less then 3G's. Sure, it wont look as cool, but I just want something that works.

 

[highdesertranger]

I want to remind everybody about the large number of custom parts required to do this conversion. I went to that link for ujointoffroad and went to the parts page http://ujointoffroad.com/4wdparts.html . everybody who is thinking about a 4x4 van should look at this page, while the various adaptors look like they are high quality, there are a lot of them. if you were to break any of these parts while in remote areas what are you going to do? it's not likely any local place will have any of these parts. while 4x4 vans look cool, imho they are not very practical. highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

I want to remind everybody about the large number of custom parts required to do this conversion.  I went to that link for ujointoffroad and went to the parts page http://ujointoffroad.com/4wdparts.html .  everybody who is thinking about a 4x4 van should look at this page,  while the various adaptors look like they are high quality,  there are a lot of them.  if you were to break any of these parts while in remote areas what are you going to do?  it's not likely any local place will have any of these parts.  while 4x4 vans look cool,  imho they are not very practical.  highdesertranger

Yes. To do this particular conversion to the Dodge there was a series of special parts I had to acquire, or make. In one $400 case, I had to have a machine shop make for me. However it's unique to using Dodge vans as bases for the conversion. I would not recommend starting with a Dodge.

My upcoming Ford is going to be much simpler, and will not require any special parts/adapters to do the conversion. It will consist of common, off-the-shelf, or out-the-wrecking-yard anywhere in western hemisphere Ford F150/250 truck, and Explorer parts.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am confused again(not hard to do). a f150 has an independent front suspension and the f250 uses a solid front axle. so are you talking older truck parts? highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

I am confused again(not hard to do).  a f150 has an independent front suspension and the f250 uses a solid front axle.  so are you talking older truck parts?  highdesertranger

The 1980-onwards F150 and F250 all use TTB. The F350 uses solid axle.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I want to remind everybody about the large number of custom parts required to do this conversion.  I went to that link for ujointoffroad and went to the parts page http://ujointoffroad.com/4wdparts.html .  everybody who is thinking about a 4x4 van should look at this page,  while the various adaptors look like they are high quality,  there are a lot of them.  if you were to break any of these parts while in remote areas what are you going to do?  it's not likely any local place will have any of these parts.  while 4x4 vans look cool,  imho they are not very practical.  highdesertranger

I do admire your distain for 4x4 vans.  Most parts used in converting vans to 4x4 are off the shelf OEM parts from Chevy or Ford.  I think in most conversions the only custom pieces are the drive shaft and welded on shock mounts.

 

[masterplumber]

I was thinking that you would just buy the brackets from U Joint, Not the whole kit. I remember reading about a guy who did that. I think it was on Expedition Protal a few years back, Before U Joint started doing build out of his own shop. He started by just doing a run of brackets and selling them. I think other than the brackets and driveshafts, the rest was off the shelf Ford parts - transmission tail shaft, transfer case, and front axle from a 1 ton Ford pickup of the same vintage. I don't recall but he may have had custom springs made also - That is really no big deal to do, I had custom springs on the front of my F350 after the originals sagged due to the weight of a diesel engine and a 12,000 lb capacity winch with 125' of cable. Even if you break a spring in a third world country it's usually not that big a deal to have replacements made.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am beating a dead horse here. go ahead convert your vans to 4wd. this is like putting a motor on a bicycle, just buy a motorcycle. converting a 3 wheeler to a 4 wheeler, just buy a 4 wheeler. but even if you convert these they are not your everyday driver. I can see converting vans to live in and I can see converting cargo trailers, I can even see building your own camper. I can see all of this because it doesn't effect your basic drivetrain. when you start changing your chassis components to custom made parts you are asking for trouble. are you going to carry a welder? what are you going to tell the cops when you get into an accident and your non factory steering parts failed? if you want 4wd buy a 4wd. your primary vehicle is no place for a custom ride. if you want to have a second vehicle as a custom ride go for it. this is the last I will say on this. well until a couple months go by and someone else wants to convert their van to 4wd. highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

I am beating a dead horse here.    go ahead convert your vans to 4wd.  this is like putting a motor on a bicycle,  just buy a motorcycle.  converting a 3 wheeler to a 4 wheeler,  just buy a 4 wheeler.  but even if you convert these they are not your everyday driver.  I can see converting vans to live in and I can see converting cargo trailers,  I can even see building your own camper.  I can see all of this because it doesn't effect your basic drivetrain.  when you start changing your chassis components to custom made parts you are asking for trouble.  are you going to carry a welder?  what are you going to tell the cops when you get into an accident and your non factory steering parts failed?  if you want 4wd buy a 4wd.  your primary vehicle is no place for a custom ride.  if you want to have a second vehicle as a custom ride go for it.  this is the last I will say on this.  well until a couple months go by and someone else wants to convert their van to 4wd.  highdesertranger

Well in fact my B150 is equipped with on-board welding. Its not very good. It does more harm to my alternator then having any hopes of laying down super nice consistent beads. Its there just incase something breaks and I have to weld something well enough that will get me to a place where I can permanently repair it. And I carry a 140amp mig in my RV. I can't use it with the RV's existing battery, and I have to upgrade the inverter if I want to use it while "off-grid". Even then I can only use it for MAYBE 5 minutes worth of welding. Its there just for emergencies, and it doesn't kill my alternator... :

The entire point of doing the homework of careful planning is so that the non-factory steering bits won't fail. I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't have $70K in a cute piggy-bank (A really big piggy-bank) under my bed to buy a Sportsmobile. I just got out of debt, and there is no way on Earth I am getting myself back in debt just for a vehicle. I also cannot get myself to spend $7K or so for a used van, or $20K for a late model used Class-B like my Ford from a dealership and spending another $10-12K paying a shop to make it a 4x4, when I, or anyone else can take a $1200 van, spend $2-3000 on it and have something thats just as good. I bought my dodge off Craigslist for $800 three years ago. To get it to where it is today I spent $2.5K.

And that is what my other thread about the Ford Econoline 4x4 is about. It's going to turn into a long long thread because I am going to go into detail with pics, and youtube videos on the process of a 4x4 van conversion. I am even going to show what tools I used, where I got them, where I got the parts, how much I spent. etc etc. And I am going to do it while OFF GRID. Thats right. I am only going to use generators/solar for power. That being said I understand that this forum is about cheap RV/Van living, NOT a hot-rod-van how too forum, but I believe that cheap 4x4 van conversions fit right into the idea that you don't have to spend a ton of cash to get what you want IF you do the homework and be creative.

 

[Gary68]

now if you tell him you are dumping the 300 for a modern computer controlled engine/trans his head will explode,be the first recorded case of death by forum post

have you investigated getting a 4x4 and swapping bodies? would have to shorten the frame but seems easier,i was kinda surprised that the gm vans/trucks didnt have the same wheelbase considering gms love universality in their rigs,didnt look up ford/dodge

 

[steamjam1]

now if you tell him you are dumping the 300 for a modern computer controlled engine/trans his head will explode,be the first recorded case of death by forum post

have you investigated getting a 4x4 and swapping bodies? would have to shorten the frame but seems easier,i was kinda surprised that the gm vans/trucks didnt have the same wheelbase considering gms love universality in their rigs,didnt look up ford/dodge

That only works on Ford because its the only one with a full frame. Neither the Dodge or the Chevy have full frames. They are uni-chassis. I've considered buying an old Pathfinder Quadravan with a rusted out body just for its frame and driveline, and then buying a Ford van with a good body and just doing the swap. However for much less then the price of buying two vans and making one good one, (Unless one of the vans was free.) I could just buy one van and convert it. If anything it saves me the headache of disposing the left overs.

I've seen hybrids that use chevy van bodies on 4x4 pick up frames, and Dodge van bodies on Ramcharger frames, but that hardly ever works out well because of the engine/driveline offset the vans have. Atleast thats alot of fab work. ALOT. In my opinion its too much fab work unless your crazy.