12v & usb outlet for batteries plug

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urbankid12

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I’m looking for something safe and good quality to get the power out of my solar filled batteries setup in building.  Ideally at least 2-4 usb plugs and 2 12v sockets. I would be plugging in a inverter to charge my laptop so having 2 seems reasonable is there any suggestions as to a unit or just maybe I need to connect 3 12v sockets to the batteries (  2 100ah batteries) But I figured maybe that redundancy results in power loss? I’m also installing two 100 watts solar panels with a controller that will be able to support a 3rd 100w panel. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated thanks.
 
B and C said:
Get a car charger for your laptop and forget the inverter.

I thought about that but on amazon they had bad reviews and looked more complex than the inverter that plugs into the 12v plug.
 
Get one made for your laptop, not a universal (cheap) one. Nothing to them, plug one end into 12V and the other end into the laptop. Everything I use runs off 12V except for my coffee pot, convection/microwave and I fire up the generator for 15 minutes to make coffee and give the batteries a head start on the solar charging. I have an inverter and only remember using it once to throw an extension cord to a campmate.

If you need help finding a quality car charger, post what you have for a laptop.

Edit to add: The blue seas stuff is top notch. All my added outlets and USB ports are blue seas.
 
I made my own power center out of a small plastic tool box. I used various ciggy and USB ports from Amazon, quality is poor to moderate. Blue Sea is a good suggestion.

My fuse block is inside the boxand I’ve got a number of other connections including a hard wired laptop charger.

All you really need is the right sized circular drill bit.
 
As has been mentioned, then using quality components where the electrical parts is actual copper with a corrode protective metal coating (nikkel, chrome, tin or the like) - is a very good idea.  As this will lower the resistance and the possible heat buildup in the sockets/connectors.

Using Blue Sea Systems 12V sockets, plugs (and more), will ensure that the optimal metal (copper) and optimal thickness of copper is being used in the product.

Blue Sea Systems 12V sockets and plugs also has a locking mechanism included in the design.
This locking design is a good idea, as it ensures a dependable and low-heat-connection between socket and plug.

The cheap 12V sockets/connectors are otherwise notorious for easily coming a little loose, resulting in poor connection, that might lead to unexpected heat-up in the connection.
This heat issue increase the more power that is drawn from the 12V sockets. Typical if more than 4-5 amp (48-60 W) is handled by the 12V socket/connection.

A quality 12V socket/plug, with a locking-secure-connection, can otherwise be expected to stay acceptably cool, up to 10-15 ampere (120-180W).



urbankid12 said:
But I figured maybe that redundancy results in power loss?

Power loss happens in wires and/or connectors, if the core is not copper, but some other metal. 

Power loss also happens if the wire is too thin (or too long) for the actual ampere load.
Or if the thickness of the copper in the socket/plug is too thin, for the actual ampere load.
Or if there is corrosion on the metals in the socket/plug. Hence the advantage of anti-corrosion coating on the copper plates of the socket/plug.


According to some charts, it is considered okay to use 20 awg wire with 10 amp fuses. And 18 awg wire with 15 amp fuses.
Like this fine chart https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

But thicker wires are always safer, so I like to use 16 awg wires for 12V sockets. No matter if they get protected by 10 amp or 15 amp fuses.

And If I am running 12V wires from one end of a vehicle, to the other end of the vehicle, and there is a 15 amp fuse to protect the wire, then I prefer to use 10 or 9 awg wires. As thicker wires results in less voltage loss for longer runs. Like longer than 5-10 feet.

But if you do not expect to load 15 amp on a long wire (over 10 feet long) it is absolutely not necessary to use such thick wires. 

I like to do 30-50% better than the chart, on permanently mounted wires.


If you expect to be able to fully load each of your 12V sockets, then each socket should have its own fuse and wire, directly from the battery, to the socket.  And the fuse should be placed close to the battery.

The easy way to do this, is to use a fuse block. And place the fuse block, close to the battery.

Individual fuse-holders works just as well, but can get a bit more messy if you end up using more than just a few wires  connected directly to the battery.

With a fuse block, there is typically a high amp fuse (30-50 amp), for the connection going directly to the battery, and then for each distribution connector from the fuse block, it is possible to use a 2-15 amp fuse for each individual wire leaving the fuse block.
Remember to use a suitable thickness wire from the battery to the fuse block. The thickness of a wire should always match the size of the fuse.  As fuses are used to protect wires (and connectors) from over heating.


This may all sound a bit much.

And it IS possible to do a simple solution like one of these units:
https://www.amazon.com/Linkstyle-Cigarette-3-Socket-Splitter-Voltmeter/dp/B07QHYBRBD
And simply add a 15Amp fuse in front of the unit (place the fuse close to the battery)

But you asked for a safe and good quality solution, and then the Blue Sea Systems components, and a fuse block, is the best way to go.
 
B and C said:
Get one made for your laptop, not a universal (cheap) one.  Nothing to them, plug one end into 12V and the other end into the laptop.  Everything I use runs off 12V except for my coffee pot, convection/microwave and I fire up the generator for 15 minutes to make coffee and give the batteries a head start on the solar charging.  I have an inverter and only remember using it once to throw an extension cord to a campmate.

If you need help finding a quality car charger, post what you have for a laptop.

Edit to add:  The blue seas stuff is top notch.  All my added outlets and USB ports are blue seas.

Acer Aspire 5 Slim Laptop, 15.6 inches Full HD IPS Display, AMD Ryzen 3 3200U, Vega 3 Graphics, 4GB DDR4, 128GB SSD, Backlit Keyboard, Windows 10 in S Mode, A515-43-R19L, Silver

that’s the title of it on amazon I bought about a month ago. Any suggestions be beyond appreciated.  Plugging directly into a 12v outlet would make life much easier. ?
 
highdesertranger said:
I would only recommend quality outlets.  Blue Sea outlets is what I use like these,

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...601586796&sprefix=blue+sea+out,aps,316&sr=8-1

that link has both the outlet(ciggy plug) and the USB.  I know you can get these much cheaper but Blue Sea is quality stuff.  I wouldn't cheap out on the electronics.

highdesertranger


thank you! I definitely will go with blue sea now. But do I need a “fuse box” or just wires from the batteries to the blue sea outlet plug?
 
MrAlvinDude said:
As has been mentioned, then using quality components where the electrical parts is actual copper with a corrode protective metal coating (nikkel, chrome, tin or the like) - is a very good idea.  As this will lower the resistance and the possible heat buildup in the sockets/connectors.

Using Blue Sea Systems 12V sockets, plugs (and more), will ensure that the optimal metal (copper) and optimal thickness of copper is being used in the product.

Blue Sea Systems 12V sockets and plugs also has a locking mechanism included in the design.
This locking design is a good idea, as it ensures a dependable and low-heat-connection between socket and plug.

The cheap 12V sockets/connectors are otherwise notorious for easily coming a little loose, resulting in poor connection, that might lead to unexpected heat-up in the connection.
This heat issue increase the more power that is drawn from the 12V sockets. Typical if more than 4-5 amp (48-60 W) is handled by the 12V socket/connection.

A quality 12V socket/plug, with a locking-secure-connection, can otherwise be expected to stay acceptably cool, up to 10-15 ampere (120-180W).




Power loss happens in wires and/or connectors, if the core is not copper, but some other metal. 

Power loss also happens if the wire is too thin (or too long) for the actual ampere load.
Or if the thickness of the copper in the socket/plug is too thin, for the actual ampere load.
Or if there is corrosion on the metals in the socket/plug. Hence the advantage of anti-corrosion coating on the copper plates of the socket/plug.


According to some charts, it is considered okay to use 20 awg wire with 10 amp fuses. And 18 awg wire with 15 amp fuses.
Like this fine chart https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

But thicker wires are always safer, so I like to use 16 awg wires for 12V sockets. No matter if they get protected by 10 amp or 15 amp fuses.

And If I am running 12V wires from one end of a vehicle, to the other end of the vehicle, and there is a 15 amp fuse to protect the wire, then I prefer to use 10 or 9 awg wires. As thicker wires results in less voltage loss for longer runs. Like longer than 5-10 feet.

But if you do not expect to load 15 amp on a long wire (over 10 feet long) it is absolutely not necessary to use such thick wires. 

I like to do 30-50% better than the chart, on permanently mounted wires.


If you expect to be able to fully load each of your 12V sockets, then each socket should have its own fuse and wire, directly from the battery, to the socket.  And the fuse should be placed close to the battery.

The easy way to do this, is to use a fuse block. And place the fuse block, close to the battery.

Individual fuse-holders works just as well, but can get a bit more messy if you end up using more than just a few wires  connected directly to the battery.

With a fuse block, there is typically a high amp fuse (30-50 amp), for the connection going directly to the battery, and then for each distribution connector from the fuse block, it is possible to use a 2-15 amp fuse for each individual wire leaving the fuse block.
Remember to use a suitable thickness wire from the battery to the fuse block. The thickness of a wire should always match the size of the fuse.  As fuses are used to protect wires (and connectors) from over heating.


This may all sound a bit much.

And it IS possible to do a simple solution like one of these units:
https://www.amazon.com/Linkstyle-Cigarette-3-Socket-Splitter-Voltmeter/dp/B07QHYBRBD
And simply add a 15Amp fuse in front of the unit (place the fuse close to the battery)

But you asked for a safe and good quality solution, and then the Blue Sea Systems components, and a fuse block, is the best way to go.
Thanks ?..what type of fuse block would you recommend for a minivan setup? Focusing on safe quality and compact/simple  if possible. 


im so greatful for all these wonderful and helpful suggestions cause the more I listen the more I realize I know nothing lol
 
I use this brand with my HP 360 laptop and have had no troubles with it.  The one linked is supposed to fit your laptop.  I really like the 10' cord from the outlet to the power brick.
 
urbankid12 said:
But do I need a “fuse box” or just wires from the batteries to the blue sea outlet plug?

Always use a minimum one fuse. And place the fuse close to the plus of the battery.


If you have the fuse block very close to the plus of the battery, then you can choose to not add a fuse between the battery and the fuse block. 
But you should then make an effort to have a good physical protection of the wire going from the battery to the fuse block. So nothing can break the insulation of the wire, and create a short. 

Fuses are used to protect wires from overheating, in the event that an unforeseen short happens. This is why some people actually use a fuse that can be screwed directly to the plus pole of the battery. 

A fuse like this: https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-ANL-100-Vehicles-Audio-System/dp/B01NBMUIQJ
can be screwed directly to some types of batteries. 

Wrap everything in electric tape, and you have created the shortest possible 'wire' between the positive side of the battery, and the (master) fuse, as is physically possible. 



If you only use some outlets/sockets, then you should ALWAYS have a fuse between the battery and sockets/outlets. 
With the fuse being mounted close to the plus pole of the battery. 


A fuseholder like this one can be used between the battery and one socket
https://www.amazon.com/Support-Holder-Copper-Standard-Socket/dp/B017BAF7GS

This fuse holder comes standard with a 30amp fuse, but you should replace it with one that fits the amp limits of the 12V socket.
So a 10 amp or 15 amp fuse.
You always chose your fuse, to fit the limits of every section/part of your wire/system. That is; to protect the weakest   section of the electric path.  The thing that can handle the lowest number of amps.  In this case the socket is the limit, because wire and fuse holder is okay up to 30 amp, but the 12V socket is only good up to 10 or 15 amp. 


Otherwise this 4-fuse holder (Blue Sea systems), might also be a very good choice for your particular needs. 
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-Block/dp/B00SE6Z2XM

You can have two 12V sockets, each with a 10 or 15 amp fuse.
And a 7.5 or 10 amp fuse, for all of your USB connectors. 
With a spare fuse for later use. 

This 4-fuse holder is likely to take up less total space, than if you use four individual on-a-wire-fuse-holders. 
And it might even be possible to screw it directly to the plus of the battery.  So you can eliminate the fuse/wire going from the battery to the fuse-block.
Still remember to wrap everything metal, that is connected to plus of the battery, in electric tape. So random metals can not get to touch any plus metal.



Why can all the USB sockets go to only one fuse? 

Each USB connect can typically handle  5V max 4 amp. (typically max 2.5 amp, but lets say its more, so 4 amp at 5V). 

5V and 4 amp is:  5V x 4A = 20W. 

A 10 amp fuse, at 12V can handle  10A x 12V = 120W

So it will take 6 USB connectors, at full load (that each can handle 20W) before the 10 amp fuse is at its limits of 120W, for the 12V battery. 

Did that make sense to you? 


As a wire, going to your USB connectors, you should as a minimum use 20awg wires. 
As the smallest fuse before the wire, is a 10 amp fuse.

And even though a single USB connector will only pull 20W (20W at 12V is 20W/12V =  1.7 amp (at 12V)  so the 20W USB connector will never overload a 20 awg wire. But a random short could pull all 10 amp, until the fuse blows, and thus we always want wires to be heavy enough to be able to safely blow the fuse. 

Does this make sense to you?
 
About a master fuse close to the plus terminal of the battery.

Here is an example of a Blue Sea Cube fuse, that basically integrates to the battery terminal screw.
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5191-Terminal/dp/B0019ZBTV4

Here is a picture of such a cube fuse being mounted to the battery. 
battery terminal cube fuse.jpg

Look at how short the "wire" from the terminal to the Fuse is. 

This style of very short wires from the battery terminal to the first fuse in your system, ensures that it is virtually impossible to start a wire-over-heating-fire, or an event of something-broke-the-plastic-skin-of-the-main-wire-from-the-battery-terminal to the fuse distributor block.

To increase safety any exposed metal at the plus terminal can be covered with electric tape. 


Or look at the following examples. 


Please note, this style of very short wire from the plus terminal to the first fuse, is not a necessity, it is just very prudent, and a very safe design choise.
 

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Here is another example of a very short wire going from the plus terminal to the first (master) fuse

odyssey_fuse.jpg


Again, one can further protect all metals at the plus terminal by adding electric tape.
 

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I am thinking that you can do something similar using the Blue Sea 4-fuse block shown earlier

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-Block/dp/B00SE6Z2XM

BSS-4-fuse-block-edit.jpg

As it is very likely that the copper pin sticking out to the left, can be screwed to the plus terminal of the battery.

And then cover that side piece (and the plus terminal) using electrical tape (or any tape really) (or a cut off from a plastic bottle) (or any thing non-metal actually - so long as it stays in place).
 

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MrAlvinDude said:
...
Does this make sense to you?

Not completely but, I think im getting it enough to piece together a system as followed...

If you don't mind sharing your thoughts on.

two solar panels (option for a 3rd within a year if and when I want to bring in a fridge)

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monoc...renogy+solar+panel+100w&qid=1601956397&sr=8-3

A charge controller able to handle 200W (300W if expanded in future)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G1PL1B9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

a 100ah deep cycle batter (may expand to two within 4 months as anything beyond that be wasting money as the new one would only be as powerful as the older one.  but I don't really want the extra weight and space for it until I downsize more)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S1RT58C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?smid=A10QFO4IXVZNRN&psc=1

Then from that I would be connecting a 4 fuse box directly to the battery (or right next to them (but if I connect directly to the battery then I would only need this fuse box instead of needing a fuse  before the fuse box correct?) I might be trying to make things a tough more simple and minimal but still being safe. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SE6Z2XM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

then from there I would be connecting the blue sky outlet plugs using 20 gauge wire keeping it all a short distance (forgot to mention planning on bringing in the solar wire from the side van door to keep it shorter if possible)  Everything is gonna be right by the passenger seat area)

Thinking I would set up two of the dual usb ports.  Could be on the same fuse but since I have 4 I wouldn't really need to as having an extra in case the fuse did blow would be nice right?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HHSTQKP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

then I would have two of the USB ports.  Mainly one for the laptop that I likely be charging during the day only.  and another for the future fridge  if and when I got it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001U4ZZPK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 

Thoughts?  Am I missing anything or is this not a system that would be safe, simple and good quality?
 
You seem to a have good list of items.


I have no experience with the solar panel, but it seems to me that Renogy has a good reputation.


I have no experience with the solar controller. So perhaps someone else can comment on that one. But still, a brand name with a decent reputation.


I have no experience with batteries from Universal Power Group. The only deep-cycle batteries I have used were from Sonnenschein.

It seems like the Amazon reviews range from five stars to one star. Some love the battery (75%), others have had trouble with them (25%).

It also seems that some of the bad reviews do not understand that lead-acid batteries should NEVER be use beyond 50% capacity.
So all in all, based on the amazon reviews, I would expect this battery to be good.


The 4-fuse block we already discussed, so it should be good.


Likewise with the Blue Sea sockets (12V and USB). They are good.


Then you mention 20 awg wires.
That should be okay for 10 amp fuses.

It is however not wise to run wires (and especially not fuses) at 100% capacity. So with 10A fuses and 20 awg wires, it is safe advice to not load more than 8 amp (80W).

They will work fine at 10 amp (100W), but the wires will get warm to the touch, and the fuse will get hot enough to burn skin.
But it is all within specs, as specs probably allows things to get as hot as 180*F (80*C).
Burning of skin happens above 60*C (140*F)

If you however do NOT want things to potentially get that hot, then it is safe advice to increase the wires. Or use dual-wires for the 12V socket where you might draw more than 8 amp (80W).

But like I say, it will still work within specs with 20 awg. You did however request safe and quality.
And the safe advice is; to not draw more than 80% on car-blade fuses, for extended periods of time.

If you double up on the wires to the one 12V socket, the wires can also function as heat-sinks, and will help the fuse to run cooler.

Double-up on the 20 awg wires, in some places, will allow you to only get one thickness of wire, and that is often a practical solution


Good idea about one USB on one fuse. As it is available.


Well these are my 2 cents anyway :)
 
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