if you need this much watts, do this

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

I know... it's been asked before... but I don't know even the keywords to search by.

It seems all of the conversations about electrical needs stop at "if you need this much watts, do this." Without really talking about specifically how to calculate those needs.

So, as I plan my kitchen, I'm facing questions like "Do I even need a microwave/air fryer/coffeemaker?" Powering each will be a key factor in those decisions. Nevermind A/C/Maxxair etc.

I'm trying to get to how much wattage I need, and THEN I can have a productive conversation about solar vs. generator vs. campfire, or even which microwave is which.

INTJohn · Sep 18, 2024

Electrical appliances & devices have the wattage; voltage and or amps labelled on the device somewhere.
Watts = Volts • Amps

Add up the total wattage or amps of the devices & appliances you’ll be operating at any given time as well as the length of time for your maximum requirements. Add another 10% at least to the total - maybe even 25%.

If you plan on using electric cooker, microwave, coffemaker, air conditioner, you’ll want a fridge too maybe a fridge freezer - all this stuff i can tell you now you’ll probably need a generator unless you’ll be staying at power provided campgrounds.

You’re not in a house dude; if you’re livin in a van u can’t have it all.

sayin…….
jonny boi livin the dream.

EDIT: here’s an example - you run a microwave on high for 90 seconds and run a coffee maker for however long that takes - 15 minutes?

Those 2 items alone will use about 35% of a 100 amp hour lifepo4 battery. Thats 3 days just those items nothing else.

You gotta decide what you need not what you want. Then maybe you can start adding something you want.
Sayin. I’m

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

INTJohn said:
Add up the total wattage or amps of the devices & appliances you’ll be operating at any given time as well as the length of time for your maximum requirements. Add another 10% at least to the total - maybe even 25%.

Huge help! This is a good start.

If you plan on using electric cooker, microwave, coffemaker, air conditioner, you’ll want a fridge too maybe a fridge freezer - all this stuff i can tell you now you’ll probably need a generator unless you’ll be staying at power provided campgrounds.

I don't figure campgrounds are in the cards except occasionally. I haven't fully planned the "kitchen" yet but I'm figuring a coffee grinder is indispensable, everything else can go off a gas burner.

A/C is a whole nother question for more research/another thread.

INTJohn · Sep 18, 2024

I’m about as basic minimalist as it gets.
Back to Watts = Volts • Amps.

Watts is power needed by the electrical device to run and is a function of Volts & Amps. Volts is for our purposes either 12 or 120. You change the voltage then you change the amps.
I.e - an appliance requires 1200 watts
If your using 120 volts that’s 10 amps
But if your power source is a 12 volt battery you now need 100 amps and you’ll require an inverter to change the voltage froM 12v to 120v. This inverter also requires amperage from the battery in order to function so your electrical requirement will exceed the 100 amp battery draw.
Blah blah.
You need to have at minimum a basic Understanding of electricity as it relates to Watts = Volts • Amps as well as 12 volt battery systems

Also; don’t waste your life on anything but a lifepo4 battery. I have 200 amps worth of 12 volt battery power and it’s all I need. Others can use this in less than a day. Depends on how much stuff you want to power. Then you’ve gotta figure out how much recharge power to recharge in what time span.

Use lotsa power daily?
Can you solar charge it with 4 or 5 days of clouds on the way? Only you can deal with you.

This site is good:
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/art...HNppylsmw0yMJtaerYC7B4hyGhj4blHXUsnvwiF7jBQkO

jonny boi

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

ok, so just for teehees I looked up how much juice an air fryer consumes.

The first one was 1400W. So, if I understand right, that means it would use up 1400 watts in 1 hour of continuous use.

So, if I'm gonna use it an hour a day (hypothetically) and run it off my 12v batteries, then ... I got lost here.

INTJohn · Sep 18, 2024

Bluedogz said:
ok, so just for teehees I looked up how much juice an air fryer consumes.

The first one was 1400W. So, if I understand right, that means it would use up 1400 watts in 1 hour of continuous use.

So, if I'm gonna use it an hour a day (hypothetically) and run it off my 12v batteries, then ... I got lost here.

It takes 1400 watts to run it - period. For 1 minute or 1 hour.
how long you can run it depends on how many amps you have stored in your 12 volt battery bank. That link I gave you has a formula somewhere that will compute this stuff for you.

There is no shortcut here. If you are going to live in a van or especially a boat you must understand the relationship between volts amps as it relates to watts.
If something happens in a van you can always find a mechanic; if something happens on a boat at sea you are on your own. Your life may depend on it. You must know this stuff. So you must research read & study.

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

INTJohn said:
It takes 1400 watts to run it - period. For 1 minute or 1 hour.
how long you can run it depends on how many amps you have stored in your 12 volt battery bank. That link I gave you has a formula somewhere that will compute this stuff for you.

There is no shortcut here. If you are going to live in a van or especially a boat you must understand the relationship between volts amps as it relates to watts.
If something happens in a van you can always find a mechanic; if something happens on a boat at sea you are on your own. Your life may depend on it. You must know this stuff. So you must research read & study.

Off into the rabbit hole I go!

INTJohn · Sep 18, 2024

Watts = volts • amps.
Very Simple math:
1400ish watts for 1hour at 12volt requires approximately 120 amp hours of battery storage.
1400w approx = to 12v •120a

This is not exact example but is for a simple understanding for you. There a bunch of factors that we’ll ignore for now.

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

INTJohn said:
Watts = volts • amps.
Very Simple math:
1400ish watts for 1hour at 12volt requires approximately 120 amp hours of battery storage.
1400w approx = to 12v •120a

This is not exact example but is for a simple understanding for you. There a bunch of factors that we’ll ignore for now.

I follow the math. Actually using his school algebra!

There are tons more questions, but I have homework to do first. That may answer them.

INTJohn · Sep 18, 2024

To continue:
A 100 amp-hour 12 volt battery has 1200 watt-hours. Can power a 1400watt device for about 50 minutes.
1200/1400 = 0.85 hour • 60 minutes = 50ish min

maki2 · Sep 18, 2024

I have been on the road full time for a number of years in my small travel trailer. The only electric kitchen appliance I own is my 12v fridge freezer which is set to food safe temp above freezing. I have no need for a microwave or an electric pressure cooker, electric coffee maker, slow cooker or even a blender. I am a mid century woman, I grew up learning to cook on a gas stove and those other items except for an electric mixer did not come into our house until I was a teen. I was nearly 30 before I owned a microwave! Doing without all that stuff is easy, although now and again on a hot day in the low 90s I sure would like to have an ice maker or at least a dual zone fridge with freezer area. But I do not have the space for a dual zone unit or s big solar panel array. As a result I get by just fine with a 150 watt panel and a 160ah AGM deep cycle battery. I love the simplicity of “less equals more”. I still have excellent fast to make meals and hot beverages, etc.

Sometimes I think I need to offer “retraining” classes to wean the “hopelessly lost” without all those kitchen appliances people into how to easily do without those electrical power hungry consumer goods.

Bluedogz · Sep 18, 2024

maki2 said:
I have been on the road full time for a number of years in my small travel trailer. The only electric kitchen appliance I own is my 12v fridge freezer which is set to food safe temp above freezing. I have no need for a microwave or an electric pressure cooker, electric coffee maker, slow cooker or even a blender. I am a mid century woman, I grew up learning to cook on a gas stove and those other items except for an electric mixer did not come into our house until I was a teen. I was nearly 30 before I owned a microwave! Doing without all that stuff is easy, although now and again on a hot day in the low 90s I sure would like to have an ice maker or at least a dual zone fridge with freezer area. But I do not have the space for a dual zone unit or the solar input. As a result I get by just fine with a 150 watt panel and a 160ah AGM deep cycle battery. I love the simplicity of “less equals more”. I still have excellent fast to make meals and hot beverages, etc.

Sometimes I think I need to offer “retraining” classes to wean the “hopelessly lost” without all those kitchen appliances people into how to easily do without them.

I'm actually looking forward to working with nothing but a single gas burner and a 10" skillet. Oh yeah, and a kettle. Even a microwave is of debatable necessity. The fridge or freezer is a key element, I think.

bullfrog ! · Sep 18, 2024

Urban living and access to plugins like the library or public spaces gives you more options. A cheap solar panel, DC to DC charger and a new tech battery will probably be all you need to run a high dollar compressor 12 volt frig/freezer. EcoFlo has been selling systems that are self contained with built in charging and inverter options which shorten charging times to as little as 45 minutes a day I believe if plugged into the grid and are comparable price wise to traditional systems. Size wise they take less space as well, and can be easily moved if changing vehicles. For someone with little electrical installations it might be even less expensive considering miscalculations that might be made by a novice. Might be worth looking at their site after pricing traditional component prices.

bullfrog ! · Sep 18, 2024

You can get by in urban situations with very little, even refilling a small cooler with free ice from drink dispensers or cooling centers in some cases.

maki2 · Sep 19, 2024

Bluedogz said:
I'm actually looking forward to working with nothing but a single gas burner and a 10" skillet. Oh yeah, and a kettle. Even a microwave is of debatable necessity. The fridge or freezer is a key element, I think.

I have an large,extra deep skillet with a lid. I can bake biscuits or cornbread or cookies, make a big pot of spay or stew, cook chicken, make burritos or grilled cheese sandwiches, even a small pizza,etc. I have a small sauce pan with pour spout edges. Sized about perfect for heating cans of soup or chilli, making quick oatmeal breakfast. Plus one small skillet. Then a small stainless steel tea kettle sized to heat several cups of water without being too bulky to store in a drawer. That setup is versatile enough to handle a wide range of food prep and even fix something in volume size for a potluck party without taking up too much storage space. I went through changing out a few various pots and pans before I got to that just right combination. Some of the portable gas stoves have the burner grid the pans sit on spaced too far away from the center for supporting a smaller sized pan. But you can find adapters for gas stove burners on Amazon to fill in some of that open area with support structure. Do search on Amazon using the keywords “gas stove ring reducer”.

Dirtrider · Sep 19, 2024

Please check all the draws you have first. Keep in mind, everything won't be on at the same time. Find your largest draw, (maybe Microwave which I have, 700W when running) and build to that at a minimum.
To assist you in understanding it all, view websites like this one > https://www.youtube.com/@EXPLORISTlife or this one>> https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse (Check Wills earlier videos for van life stuff) Both are fantastic at this stuff and explain it well and in detail
Keep in mind wire sizes for the the load, wire lengths, and more that your learn.
My current van has a system I built myself with 400W of battery power, 600W solar, running a water heater/Microwave/inverter/eBike charging/ cooler & freezer combo/etc. Never goes below 75% but I use them wisely meaning never all at the same time less fans and refer.

Plan it all out and then determine your needs within your budget. Something like a EcoFlow Delta is a great unit to start with and take some of the thinking out of the puzzle. I had used one and loved it, just needed more power for my liking

Good luck!

rruff · Sep 19, 2024

maki2 said:
The only electric kitchen appliance I own is my 12v fridge freezer

I don't even have one of those... or a cooler.

I only use electricity for a laptop and a couple lights, and to charge the phone and other gadgets.

Bluedogz said:
So, as I plan my kitchen, I'm facing questions like "Do I even need a microwave/air fryer/coffeemaker?" Powering each will be a key factor in those decisions. Nevermind A/C/Maxxair etc.

Maxxair, yes! No to all the rest except maybe a fridge... If you want all the junk that everybody else has, then you are kinda stuck with living like them. Think about making your life simple... especially important if you will be living in a van.

You mentioned that you won't use campgrounds. Where do you plan to camp and how will you live? There is a lot of diversity in this, and it's important.

I prefer to convert to Watts (power) and Watt-hours (energy), which is just power x time. W and Wh. For instance, the battery's energy capacity is Wh not Ah. You usually only need to worry about amps when sizing wires.

Dirtrider said:
My current van has a system I built myself with 400W of battery power

For instance, I very much doubt that you have 400W of battery power. A single LiFePO4 12v 100Ah battery has ~1300Wh of capacity and is usually rated for a continuous power output of ~1300W. If what you really meant was Ah (which is neither power, nor energy) and it's 12V, then you probably have about 5200Wh of capacity, and the max draw will depend on the BMS.

Dirtrider · Sep 19, 2024

rruff said:
For instance, I very much doubt that you have 400W of battery power. A single LiFePO4 12v 100Ah battery has ~1300Wh of capacity and is usually rated for a continuous power output of ~1300W. If what you really meant was Ah (which is neither power, nor energy) and it's 12V, then you probably have about 5200Wh of capacity, and the max draw will depend on the BMS.

Good catch! Typing and on a conf call multi -tasking
I have (2) 200AH batteries wired in Parallel for 400 total AH, my bad...

BTW- for reference, my water heater uses 1.4 KW when running which is my largest single draw

Bluedogz · Sep 20, 2024

rruff said:
You mentioned that you won't use campgrounds. Where do you plan to camp and how will you live? There is a lot of diversity in this, and it's important.

Well, I don't see myself as a "camping in the woods" type guy. I'm more an open-road sort. Frankly, if I hadn't suffered a disabling injury I'd be doing this on a motorcycle and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

In my mind's eye, most of my "camping" will be roadside in rest areas, truck stops, Walmarts, and such. Clearly, I'll have a looonnnggg run-up to making all this happen.

That's a bit off the OP, but you asked...

rruff · Sep 20, 2024

Bluedogz said:
In my mind's eye, most of my "camping" will be roadside in rest areas, truck stops, Walmarts, and such. Clearly, I'll have a looonnnggg run-up to making all this happen.

This is important for deciding what you need. Why those places? Every state west of where you live has millions of acres of public land you can camp on, and you can find nice weather all year by moving around.

IMO, it's best to start minimal. If you like to motorcycle trip, then it seems that would be very minimal, plus a lot of weather exposure. Having a more luxurious experience in a van would be very easy!

Will you be full time or just taking trips? What part of the country, and what time of year? What sort of rig do you have in mind?

if you need this much watts, do this

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