Mini-Van-Camper-Conversion

Please join & help me on my voyage to a camper-converted Mini-Van. After about 3 years owning a Class B camper I would like to downsize to a Mini-Van.

We did enjoy the room and luxury of the RV. At this time, we are looking for something a bit more suitable as a daily driver. Perhaps once I retire and have more time to travel I will return to a more dedicated RV.



What I did not like about the commercially converted (Thor) camper:

1. All the things I did not really need or want
2. Quality and workmanship of the conversion
3. Size of the vehicle

1) While it had everything we wanted/needed, it also had quite a bit more that we could have done without. For example, a generator seems like a good thing to have, but we did not use it EXCEPT a few times to run the A/C in Summer on a Utah trip, and doing monthly maintenance runs is actually pretty annoying. Going to the deserts in the middle of Summer can be avoided, especially once the kids are out of school and it is easier to pick optimal travel seasons. Two 100Ah AGM batteries (175lb) could have been replaced with a single 100Ah LiFePO4 battery (26lb). The multiplex control panel sounds like a great idea, but a simple light or pump switch can be beautiful too, if you don't have to boot it up first.
Having a bathroom seemed like something essential, but in hindsight we did not use the shower or sink very much. The cassette toilet was something that my wife/daughter would probably want, so I'll need to think about that. I never even turned on the hot water.

2) I am pretty "handy" which was beneficial many times. Often the question wasn't if something would break/fall apart/cease to function but "when". It's a pretty complex setup, to squeeze the functionality of a home into a small vehicle, and then exposing it to constant jerking movements (dirt roads?). Especially with a camper on the lower end of the pricing scale, things just continue to cause issues. I feel that simplifying things and doing my own work (like using screws and wood glue instead of staples going nowhere) will overall make it a much less finicky and more reliable setup.

3) Don't get me wrong, being able to stand up in the camper is a wonderful thing, and something I will probably sorely miss that, as well as all the space to carry stuff with us. But smaller vehicles are more efficient, easier to drive, and less conspicuous.

All of this leads to a more minimalistic setup in a Mini-Van...

Wandern said:

Please join & help me on my voyage to a camper-converted Mini-Van. After about 3 years owning a Class B camper I would like to downsize...

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Glad you're here, if only because you are enchoing our sentiments. After 15+ years camping as a couple in a van, I was given the opportunity to choose our next rig. After evaluating and re-evaluating our priorities, the choice was (drumroll)... another van!

Hope you find some good ideas and share yours here!

One of these days you will find something that is the perfect fit. But I do suggest you rent a minivan for a week or two camping trip before you decide to buy one.

VanFan said:

Glad you're here, if only because you are enchoing our sentiments. After 15+ years camping as a couple in a van, I was given the opportunity to choose our next rig. After evaluating and re-evaluating our priorities, the choice was (drumroll)... another van!

Hope you find some good ideas and share yours here!

Click to expand...

It certainly strikes a great balance between size and drivability vs room and features, especially for two who enjoy camping. It's just that at this moment in our lives, it feels like it's a notch too big, and with a few compromises and adjusted expectations we can get the same utility out of a smaller vehicle, which also serves better as an (almost) daily driver.

maki2 said:

One of these days you will find something that is the perfect fit. But I do suggest you rent a minivan for a week or two camping trip before you decide to buy one.

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Good suggestion, but the key point here would be a "converted" minivan which I don't think anyone rents out? I have a pretty good idea though, we have done tent camping out of a regular cars trunk, I have slept in station wagons, etc.
When I do the conversion, I also want to keep it reversible so in a few years we can sell the Minivan and go back to something beefier.

Vehicle Choices

As pointed out in the OP, I am shooting for something a size smaller than the usual Promaster/Sprinter/Transit to double as a regular car. In my search for the "smaller is better", most efficient vehicle with maximum inside space I zeroed in on Mini-Vans. They seem to provide the max load capacity while still being well suited as daily drivers. Honestly, I felt silly driving to the grocery store or doctors appt in my maxed out camper.

Minivans are also not considered cool, so the general price range is a bit below what you see for proper SUVs. While SUVs often offer AWD and more clearance, there is a hit in fuel economy and inside room. Not planning to do much off-roading and snow-plowing so AWD is a bit lost on me.

After looking at available Minivans, it's pretty much down to Sienna vs Odyssey. Looking at their track record for reliability, I think I'd prefer Honda or Toyota over Chrysler and Kia.

Trying to avoid some of the initial depreciation, while not enjoying fixing cars, I narrowed it down to something maybe 2 or 3 years old.

The hybrid engine Siennas come with a tempting 36 mpg, plus some are available in AWD. My other car is a little Jetta TDI reaching 50 mpg, so I am definitely a bit spoiled. The flipside is that these Siennas are also significantly more expensive, and slightly less roomy than a comparable Odyssey. I am not planning to put a lot of miles on it, so the difference in mpg may not offset the initial investment. It also seems like the Siennas are in high demand, which drives up the used prices (wait times for new one?).

So that brings me to the Odyssey, which also seems to be the roomiest of them. Seats can be easily removed, unlike the Sienna which requires some fumbling and dongles to quiet down the airbag sensors.

Makes sense so far?

Honda SUVs are among the most reliable. But one drawback is their rear suspension components get pretty saggy when the rear is loaded up with weight and that takes on a permanent rear droop over time. They do not have OEM heavy duty rear suspension options available. Aftermarket replacement kits are sold but are pricey.

Do not neglect ground clearance into your buying criteria if you plan on traveling on any dirt roads for dispersed camping on BLM or NFS federal lands or into State owned areas. I am not sure how much interior space is sacrificed by not opting for AWD. But if you are going into areas with dirt roads that can get muddy I highly recommend you make that function a priority. I took my AWD Honda Element on such roads today while dispersed camping on NFS Land in the Coconino National Forest. Trees need rain so every forest gets rain which creates mud. Fortunately there was a decent amount of rain this week because it really was needed to reduce the wildfire risk.

If fuel cost mileage is not a priority then go for an AWD so you don’t get stuck. You will have more fun exploring roads in the woods than just staying on paved roads.

Thank you for your thoughts on the Oddy. Hoping that newer models (21+) have that sagging problem licked, from a quick search I haven't seen complaints for more recent year models.

My previous camper had basically NO ground clearance (3.5" before they lifted up the rear a bit to get to 5"). Lots of stuff nailed to the bottom, I always held my breath when driving into or out of gas stations.

Not planning to off-road. Odyssey doesn't offer an AWD version anyway, so if I stay with that, it's a moot point. I realize I can't do The Needles or The Maze... that's OK, should be mostly OK on regular (forest) roads. Right tool for the right job.

Mileage IS a big consideration, one of the reasons why I want to downsize. From that POV, the Sienna would make more sense, but it appears that what you'd save over time is eaten up by the initially added cost, and you end up with a slightly less roomy vehicle.

Floor Plan, and stuff I WANT...

Thinking about the best setup. Not planning for anything too permanent, I want to be able to adjust to my needs, improve over time... flexibility, you know?



I think I want to remove the 3rd row bench, as well as the second row seat behind the driver. I want a rear kitchen, accessible both from inside and out. Well, here is what I really WANT:

1. A nice, good sized, front-accessible refrigerator with a good sized freezer compartment
2. Place to prepare meals/propane cooker
3. Sink with filtered water
4. Storage
5. Place to sleep at least 2 ppl, ideally 3

I am going to detail each of these points in future posts. As you can probably gather from my horrible MS Paint image above, I am thinking about an extendable bed behind the driver, relatively high up, with storage and refrigeration below. I am also wondering if the passenger front seat and second row seat could all be laid flat/back and turn into another sleeping area, with some support and air mattresses and such.

I have not seen anyone do what I have floating through my mind, so it may be totally wacky and utterly impossible.

I do not personally care what you purchase but you did say you wanted to avoid fixing cars. So I am just letting you know that all the Hondas have that issue. They are made to have a softer ride so they do not put heavy duty springs on them. As to the newest models not having that issue. It is an issue that occurs over time, it does not happen in the first couple of years. It also does not happen to Hondas that are not used to carry a lot of weight in the rear. You could use it for grocery runs and commuting in town for lots of years and never experience it.

On the Honda… my son has the “touring” model oddy… two issues is the feature that cuts out a couple cylinders while idling causes vibrations that require new motor mounts from time to time. There are five and cost like $800 a piece if you do it yourself. The tires were something that you cannot buy and he had to buy different tires and wheels and modify the fenders so they didn’t rub. Daughter in law loves it… a good fit when you have six kids!!!

If you are going to do this project get a vehicle you can do it in without creating safety issues for your family. Modifying the passenger seats will compromise the passenger’s safety. So just get a tent for that third person you need to find sleeping space for. Perhaps even a rooftop tent? Or buy a tear drop trailer for extra sleeping space.

Safety first, you would not buy a vehicle that was unsafe for your family to ride in. So you should also not create a situation that compromises their safety. It is very easy to get your head all wrapped up into design ideas. Some of them will be great but some will not pass the final criteria of good quality design. Good design needs to include safety.

NctryBen said:

On the Honda… my son has the “touring” model oddy… two issues is the feature that cuts out a couple cylinders while idling causes vibrations that require new motor mounts from time to time. There are five and cost like $800 a piece if you do it yourself. The tires were something that you cannot buy and he had to buy different tires and wheels and modify the fenders so they didn’t rub. Daughter in law loves it… a good fit when you have six kids!!!

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Thank you and maki2 for the tips. Sounds like there are issues that Honda would be interested to address. Perhaps disabling turning off the cylinders via a "VCM muffler" may be a good idea. About $1000-1200 to replace the OEM mounts, from what I can gather on the web.
Not sure what you mean by "the tires were something that you cannot buy".

Maki - I am not planning to modify the passenger seats at all. I want to remove the one behind the driver, and if the back of the passenger seat lays flat all the way back, there may be potential for another "bed". In my Promaster, the teen was sleeping across the front seats via a mattress. It seemed fairly comfy, but the Minivan is narrower, so not enough room across.
Rooftop tent is definitely something I am considering.

Wandern said:

... I felt silly driving to the grocery store or doctors appt in my maxed out camper...plowing so AWD is a bit lost on me.

...a tempting 36 mpg...a little Jetta TDI reaching 50 mpg, so I am definitely a bit...

Makes sense so far?

Click to expand...

.
a)
We rarely travel more than a hundred miles a month.
Fuel is a very minor part of our budget.
.
.
b)
We are fervent Role Models for 'silly'.
In olden times, we would take our ExpeditionVehicle to the drive-in movies.
And the drive-through massage.
And, naturally, we are all-in for drive-up voting.
.
Some might say it is our PatrioticDuty©...

We use our back seat folded down to hold our mattress and after the first night we found the seat down was only good for a few hours of napping it had some bars needed for support and the cushioning was not very comfy. We got a 4 inch foam pad/mattress but still not totally comfy, we added a firm rug under the foam and covered the foam with a quilted cover that can be removed and washed. (Wet Dog Issues). Now for the most part the bed is comfy. I have serious breathing issues if I lay down flat so we added a wedge for my side. We have a bucket with a seat for nighttime use.
We use a Jackery for power. We decided on the Jackery as then we could also use it in our house when power goes out. It does to often not to have back up power. The Jackery powers the lights and the kitchen, fridge thingy and microwave and almost whatever else we want. Though I wish we had gotten the next size up as it doesn't power our induction burner. We have some small solar panels that can help power it back up, but they are to small to do it if we go crazy with power usage.
We have a couple of lanterns with solar panels built in that we use outside the van and a couple solar phone chargers. There are 2 bed lights we use for reading in bed and stuff that are rechargeable and a small space heater/fan that we use off the Jackery.
Our kitchen is on the back behind the seat/bed in the last foot or so of the van with a wall separating it from the bed. We can't use it from the inside, and it is not so much fun in the cold or stormy weather. A bit of rain is ok as I made an awning for it. I don't like food smells in the bedroom area, so it is pretty much outside for me to cook, and I do like to cook so my kitchen is pretty well loaded with 'stuff'.

Wandern said:

Thank you and maki2 for the tips. Sounds like there are issues that Honda would be interested to address. Perhaps disabling turning off the cylinders via a "VCM muffler" may be a good idea. About $1000-1200 to replace the OEM mounts, from what I can gather on the web.
Not sure what you mean by "the tires were something that you cannot buy".

Maki - I am not planning to modify the passenger seats at all. I want to remove the one behind the driver, and if the back of the passenger seat lays flat all the way back, there may be potential for another "bed". In my Promaster, the teen was sleeping across the front seats via a mattress. It seemed fairly comfy, but the Minivan is narrower, so not enough room across.
Rooftop tent is definitely something I am considering.

Click to expand...

Rent the model of car you are considering for a few days so you can get a hands sense of its potental for conversion. It will be money well spent to have it to test out in real life scenarios.

Using a class B campervan as a daily driver has some inconveniences, but camping out of a minivan has significant compromises also. The biggest factor that makes factory built RVs impractical is their complex systems. I believe in making systems in the simplest manner that achieves my desired result. Even luxuries (like hot running water) can be done simply. The limited space of minivans make even basic movements of living (like using the toilet) a hassle. You may want to consider the Promaster 118, it's shorter than most minivans, yet wide enough that most folks can sleep sideways, and move about the cabin without crawling.

vanbrat said:

We use our back seat folded down to hold our mattress and after the first night we found the seat down was only good for a few hours of napping it had some bars needed for support and the cushioning was not very comfy. We got a 4 inch foam pad/mattress but still not totally comfy, we added a firm rug under the foam and covered the foam with a quilted cover that can be removed and washed. (Wet Dog Issues). Now for the most part the bed is comfy. I have serious breathing issues if I lay down flat so we added a wedge for my side. We have a bucket with a seat for nighttime use.
We use a Jackery for power. We decided on the Jackery as then we could also use it in our house when power goes out. It does to often not to have back up power. The Jackery powers the lights and the kitchen, fridge thingy and microwave and almost whatever else we want. Though I wish we had gotten the next size up as it doesn't power our induction burner. We have some small solar panels that can help power it back up, but they are to small to do it if we go crazy with power usage.
We have a couple of lanterns with solar panels built in that we use outside the van and a couple solar phone chargers. There are 2 bed lights we use for reading in bed and stuff that are rechargeable and a small space heater/fan that we use off the Jackery.
Our kitchen is on the back behind the seat/bed in the last foot or so of the van with a wall separating it from the bed. We can't use it from the inside, and it is not so much fun in the cold or stormy weather. A bit of rain is ok as I made an awning for it. I don't like food smells in the bedroom area, so it is pretty much outside for me to cook, and I do like to cook so my kitchen is pretty well loaded with 'stuff'.

Click to expand...

Good stuff, thanks much for sharing your setup!
Using the car seats as a platform for a bed is tempting, since they are there, and are somewhat cushioned already. Going to look at some Minivans and see if it works the way I envision it.

For power, I am using a 1200Wh Power Station. Works really well, and this particular model is very inexpensive too ($250 at the moment). I originally bought it at twice that, but prices on LFP batteries (and power stations) have been in free-fall the last couple of years. This will power the refrigerator (for ~ 3 days) plus water pump and any USB charging needs, and will be recharging via some solar panel.

As for food smells... how about morning coffee and toast?
Of course, I too prefer cooking fish and such over a nearby campfire, or table outside. In our camper, we often cooked inside, but the ceiling fan did a good job sucking out most of the food smells quickly.

I'll get into the details in future posts...

Wandern said:

Vehicle Choices

As pointed out in the OP, I am shooting for something a size smaller than the usual Promaster/Sprinter/Transit to double as a regular car. In my search for the "smaller is better", most efficient vehicle with maximum inside space I zeroed in on Mini-Vans. They seem to provide the max load capacity while still being well suited as daily drivers. Honestly, I felt silly driving to the grocery store or doctors appt in my maxed out camper.

Minivans are also not considered cool, so the general price range is a bit below what you see for proper SUVs. While SUVs often offer AWD and more clearance, there is a hit in fuel economy and inside room. Not planning to do much off-roading and snow-plowing so AWD is a bit lost on me.

After looking at available Minivans, it's pretty much down to Sienna vs Odyssey. Looking at their track record for reliability, I think I'd prefer Honda or Toyota over Chrysler and Kia.

Trying to avoid some of the initial depreciation, while not enjoying fixing cars, I narrowed it down to something maybe 2 or 3 years old.

The hybrid engine Siennas come with a tempting 36 mpg, plus some are available in AWD. My other car is a little Jetta TDI reaching 50 mpg, so I am definitely a bit spoiled. The flipside is that these Siennas are also significantly more expensive, and slightly less roomy than a comparable Odyssey. I am not planning to put a lot of miles on it, so the difference in mpg may not offset the initial investment. It also seems like the Siennas are in high demand, which drives up the used prices (wait times for new one?).

So that brings me to the Odyssey, which also seems to be the roomiest of them. Seats can be easily removed, unlike the Sienna which requires some fumbling and dongles to quiet down the airbag sensors.

Makes sense so far?

Click to expand...

So yesterday we had a look at some Minivans. The Odyssey seems all around pretty nice.



The WAF (wife approval factor) is fairly high, especially in silver color. While I prefer white for max heat reflection, it does look pretty good.



Third row sinks into the floor...



And when removed, leaves a good sized well which I am planning to fill with a water canister, water pump, water filter, and perhaps some other things that don't need frequent access. That's actually a good question, how to access this area if my planned kitchen sits on top of it. Anchoring stuff will be a consideration.

We also checked out some Siennas, but they seem a bit smaller (unfortunately I forgot to bring a tape measure...) at least inside. Also, the prices for them are totally nuts.

There’s a reason for all of that as pointed out earlier. Full time travel requires you carry everything you need which is a lot of weight. More weight means it shortens the life of the van. In my opinion if you just need an enclosed secure sleeping area and carry no more than you would if you were backpacking the Honda works great if you stay on pavement. It will require some expensive maintenance but hauling little weight over paved roads if it was well maintained when you got it it will work. Hauling water is expensive if more than a few gallons and limited cargo will determine whether it works for you or not.