Inflation, real income, and politics Moved from: Interesting Articles Relating to EVs

mpruet said:

Do you think it was better in the early 20th century when the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, Carnages, Morgans, Guggenheims, and Fords held the majority of all wealth in the world?

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I never said that.
A bit of Google-fu found these pages

GINI index in USA, 1960-2020: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINIUSA

Income of top 1%, 1913 to 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Divergence_(inequality)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States --
"Income inequality has fluctuated considerably since measurements began around 1915, declining between peaks in the 1920s and 2007 (CBO data[2]) or 2012 (Piketty, Saez, Zucman data[15]). Inequality steadily increased from around 1979 to 2007, with a small reduction through 2016,[2][16][17] followed by an increase from 2016 to 2018"

Page above also includes causes, like decline of labor unions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1907-_Income_inequality_and_union_participation.svg

So we both are right depending on the timeframe.
IOW, income inequality in USA now similar as it was during 1920s, during Rockefellers. Happy now?

wanderlust said:

Socialism lost to capitalism every time it was tried (so far, now China tries again), but capitalism needs to improve - improve outcomes for the whole society, not only 1%. Funny how everybody agrees that problems started in 1980'ties but Reagan was the best president.

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We are enjoying many forms of socialism. What on Earth are you talking about? As do corporations.

And Reagan? Do you have even one example for why he was a decent president (let alone the best)? Hoping you were being sarcastic.

bullfrog ! said:

I agree but it is tough when you have babies, they tend to choke on cornbread and it takes money even to buy black-eyed peas as most places don’t have a good enough climate or soil to grow enough high yield beans to keep a family fed. Not every place has a good private charity food bank. It also takes transportation and or fuel to get to the grocery store. Lots of isolated areas in this country and large urban areas without grocery stores. In many areas unfortunately McDonald’s maybe the closest and cheapest food available, especially if you dumpster dive. Just look at the numbers of kids whose only meal is the free school lunch program.

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Well I never choked on cornbread. Maybe because I crumbled it up into my milk, or maybe because I smashed it up into my peas.

You can order a pound of black-eyed peas from Amazon for under $2.00/pound and a 9 packets of cornbread mix for under $13:00. That’s a heck of a lot less expensive than a single Big Mac…

Carla618 said:

Wasn't referring to his friend, LOL.

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But why does privilege have to be white? Just like I have seen many well off families help their kids get ahead, I have also seen many people of many colors and financial backgrounds be financially successful and overcome whatever their personal hurdles and roadblocks were. That isn't fairytale luck or whatever. I have seen just as many rich family kids fail. Privilege can be a factor, but isn't always.

Carla618 said:

Define success. It means something different to everyone. Unless, of course, you mean money.

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When I was young I thought having money and nice things was what successful people had. With that came influence and other perks.

My personal current determination of success is if everyone i love is healthy and ok. And if I'm in a position to help in some way if they aren't. Two years ago I was the most content I have been my entire life. I had money, and everyone I loved and cared about was doing very well in their lives. Doing very well is on all levels. Not just that they have money and things. The other things are general more important.

As I mentioned previously, I am dirt poor at the moment. But I am very successful in every other way at this moment. The finances are a bit of a pain. But because it was a decision to be here in order to be successful by my terms I'm ok with that.

I figure once I'm ready to get into money making mode it'll do what I always have done. Make money. Find something that makes sense to do and make money doing it. If that sounds vague it's because it is. I haven't decided what my next step will be. Some will depend on my financial starting point. Some will be determined by what is feasible within the confines of my financial and logistical situation when it's go time.

It's not rocket science. It's just figuring out where there's a need, and if you can fill that need at a profit doing something you enjoy. You can become good at anything you decide to work at. If you expand past what you think you know it's a much better viewpoint.

I'm really starting to look forward to the challenges ahead. It should be a blast.

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I think we have an entire thread with cheap meal ideas that aren't bread and water.

Happy Camper said:

I think we have an entire thread with cheap meal ideas that aren't bread and water.

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I was wrong, so I made a thread to address it.

https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/inexpensive-meals-and-eating.49602/

Happy Camper said:

I think we have an entire thread with cheap meal ideas that aren't bread and water.

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For a southern boy calling cornbread ‘bread and water’ are fighting words…

mpruet said:

For a southern boy calling cornbread ‘bread and water’ are fighting words…

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I was actually going old English dungeons with bread and water. Not old school Southern lol.

Gruel ain't grits!

Happy Camper said:

But why does privilege have to be white?

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Did I say white privilege? I meant white, male privilege. Kidding! Sort of.

Definition​

White privilege is a social phenomenon intertwined with race and racism.[1] The American Anthropological Association states that, "The 'racial' worldview was invented to assign some groups to perpetual low status, while others were permitted access to privilege, power, and wealth."[19] Although the definition of "white privilege" has been somewhat fluid, it is generally agreed to refer to the implicit or systemic advantages that people who are deemed white have relative to people who are not deemed white. Not having to experience suspicion and other adverse reactions to one's race is also often termed a type of white privilege.[2]

The term is used in discussions focused on the mostly hidden benefits that white people possess in a society where racism is prevalent and whiteness is considered normal, rather than on the detriments to people who are the objects of racism.[20][21] As such, most definitions and discussions of the concept use as a starting point McIntosh's metaphor of the "invisible backpack" that white people unconsciously "wear" in a society where racism is prevalent.[2]

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

Carla618 said:

Did I say white privilege? I meant white, male privilege. Kidding! Sort of.

Definition​

White privilege is a social phenomenon intertwined with race and racism.[1] The American Anthropological Association states that, "The 'racial' worldview was invented to assign some groups to perpetual low status, while others were permitted access to privilege, power, and wealth."[19] Although the definition of "white privilege" has been somewhat fluid, it is generally agreed to refer to the implicit or systemic advantages that people who are deemed white have relative to people who are not deemed white. Not having to experience suspicion and other adverse reactions to one's race is also often termed a type of white privilege.[2]

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

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As I stated earlier, if white privilege is a reality, then why was I denied regular employment at a major corporation even though I had single-handed implemented a critical system as a contractor AND was told to my face that even though they wanted me as an employee, they could not hire me because I was 1) white and/or 2) male?

And furthermore why were the majority of the management team at another major corporation that I worked for mostly female and/or non-white?

mpruet said:

So I became a programmer/software engineer. And I was good at that and over time progressed significantly.

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Which happens to still be a hot job to have. But not everyone has an aptitude for such things, in fact very few do. And half the population has an IQ below 100... there is also a large % in that group who are not good looking, are shy or otherwise poorly adapted to a career in "service industries". How poor do you think a person should be if they are willing to work hard at whatever they are able to do?

mpruet said:

I learned a long time ago that I was only worth (in money) what someone considered my value to be. I couldn’t just ‘demand’ a certain income. I had to be of more value to my employer than I would receive in pay.

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And yet that is exactly what unions do, and when they were the strongest, our economy was the best... and it was best for the average person by a crazy amount.

Your worth to your employer is relative, depending on how you compare to other employees or prospective employees. It also depends on the wage paid for other jobs.

I'm not a fan of how many of the strong unions operated in this country, but when we let the oligarchs set policy, we are screwed.

mpruet said:

There is not a finite amount of cash in the world.

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There is a finite level of real production at any given time, and it's value in US$ is fixed. How this gets dived up amongst humans, is surprisingly fluid and variable.

rruff said:

Which happens to still be a hot job to have. But not everyone has an aptitude for such things, in fact very few do. And half the population has an IQ below 100... there is also a large % in that group who are not good looking, are shy or otherwise poorly adapted to a career in "service industries". How poor do you think a person should be if they are willing to work hard at whatever they are able to do?

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This is a valid argument. To be just a bit argumentive, and IQ of 100 does not mean that half of the population is below 100. It’s a bell curve in which the largest population is going to be somewhere between 95 and 105 with the largest population being exactly at 100. ;-)

OK - I’ll admit that not everyone has an aptitude for being a software engineer. It requires constantly learning new technology because the field is constantly changing. But I don’t have the aptitude to be an auto mechanic, or a plumber, or an electrician. But I know of many folks that do have an aptitude for those fields and do make a good income. Some may work for a firm, but a lot become independent business folks and even hire other workers. But the gotcha is what do they do with the income they make. Do they spend it all or do they put a portion to work at generating additional income. If they do the former, then chances are they won’t end up with an easy retirement. But if they do the latter, they’ll probably end up fairly well off in retirement.

rruff said:

And yet that is exactly what unions do, and when they were the strongest, our economy was the best... and it was best for the average person by a crazy amount.

Your worth to your employer is relative, depending on how you compare to other employees or prospective employees. It also depends on the wage paid for other jobs.

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I’m not 100% in agreement with that. Your worth to your employer is based more on how much your efforts improve the bottom line of the company. I personally saved a major account with one of our business partners. I recognized a problem spot that they had with our product and came up with an alternate solution which significantly reduced the time required to recover from a lengthy outage. That effort resulted in us getting the partnership which eventually increased out bottom line.

You see a problem and come up with a solution which improves the businesses bottom line.

rruff said:

I'm not a fan of how many of the strong unions operated in this country, but when we let the oligarchs set policy, we are screwed.

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mpruet said:

And of the folks not improving their lot, how many are not putting what assets they have to work to create additional income streams?

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You probably don't realize it, but what you are advocating is "gaming the system". You aren't increasing productivity or aggregate wealth, but if if you (or anyone) figures out how to get that money flowing into *their* account, then they are a winner. Obviously, not everyone can be a winner. Aggregate productivity sets the limit.

Meanwhile the mega-rich oligarchs have been sucking up all the productivity gains for the last 45 years, and you are advocating actions that will do absolutely nothing but get a bigger share of the scaps into your account.

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rruff said:

You probably don't realize it, but what you are advocating is "gaming the system". You aren't increasing productivity or aggregate wealth, but if if you (or anyone) figures out how to get that money flowing into *their* account, then they are a winner. Obviously, not everyone can be a winner. Aggregate productivity sets the limit.

Meanwhile the mega-rich oligarchs have been sucking up all the productivity gains for the last 45 years, and you are advocating actions that will do absolutely nothing but get a bigger share into your account.

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Huh? Just how is buying or building additional housing for rent gaming the system? How is letting your money be borrowed by other businesses for investment gaming the system? How is lending money to a municipality so they can build inexpensive housing for their citizens gaming the system?

You worry about the very very rich. That's a fools game ultimately.

If you want to get ahead and make decent money while being lower IQ, ugly, or shy you can always learn a trade. There is a huge need for workers in the trade industries and they pay extremely well.

They don't care about the above things. They care about the job getting done, and done right.

You can make $100k+ a year after a few years in the trades. They teach you. They help you get certs and other things needed. Then they ultimately pay you well. Yes it's more work and effort, but it's a good living.

There are plenty of ways to make money. You just have to figure out what works for you, your sensibilities, situation, and resources.

Bring self employed almost my entire adult life, I have had many people ask me how I did it. Then we go through questions and answers, with me asking the questions. Ultimately, I would find a business and business plan that would work for them.

Many followed through and we're successful. Some more than others. Some gave me every reason they couldn't do these things. I didn't get upset with them. Some aren't meant to take those risks. Some work best within someone else's framework doing their job.

We need those with ideas and vision to create. We need those that are best doing a great job with the security that provides. One doesn't work without the other in most cases. If you're one of the security oriented types don't get mad at the visionaries. If you're a visionary, don't look down or take advantage of your workers.

And if you're kid wants to be rich and thinks that working at Starbucks or MC Donald's is great because one is union and the other has a high minimum wage in California, are them to the trades. Or help them figure out their vision.

But for God's sake show them how to make good money decisions. Just because you make a good living doesn't mean you can't be broke.

mpruet said:

Huh? Just how is buying or building additional housing for rent gaming the system? How is letting your money be borrowed by other businesses for investment gaming the system? How is lending money to a municipality so they can build inexpensive housing for their citizens gaming the system?

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Because the spoils go to those who have lots of capital to "invest" in these things. If you didn't do it someone else would.

Meanwhile the poor slob working a job and spending all his income to support his family is getting screwed. Because the gains aren't going to workers, rather they are accumulating to owners of capital.

I want to add something to my above statements.

I have no problem working hard. I rather enjoy it when it's necessary. But ultimately my goal is always to work smarter and not harder. To not let my time = my money.

I have had businesses where I spent minimal time and made exceptional money. I have had businesses where I had to be there constantly. Hated that by the way.

Your money should work for you. So if I make extra money I'll invest it in things that will make me more money. And I will spend that money as I see fit. Not because someone decides I have more than I need and should give it away. I'll decide where my charity goes. And the vast majority of what I give will actually go towards what I want it to instead of 5 layers of bureaucracy and committed that get paid 8 out of 10 dollars before it gets where it's going.