STUDENT LOANS !!!!!!!!!!

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I stumbled across information on the web about some student loans can be discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy. I do not know the rules for that...and certainly cannot venture a guess if you meet that standard. BUT, I know that bankruptcy lawyers will do FREE consultation...and could tell you the answer.

So..like I said, I don't know your whole situation..but maybe....?
 
ArtW and TheoBennet,
I agree with both of you!

Trainchaser,
Not to be mean but your comment of "I don't mean to sound snippy, but if you only work four days a week, you didn't need that expensive education", is not only wrong, but doesn't even make sense, therefore irrelevant. First off, in the medical field days of work can very greatly. You may have a 5 day week of 8 hr days, you may have a 4 days of 10 hrs shifts or even, and this is extremely common, if not the norm for most, but three 12 hr days a week. Over-time is often possible but depends on the institution. Second, to say if you only plan to work four days a week then some how that means you should pay less for a degree makes no logical sense.
Opinions are tricky....the best opinions are ones that you can back up with experience yourself. And even then, opinions should sometimes be stated as advice only.

For example: I may hate sleeping in a tent. (which I don't) and someone may ask how I feel about sleeping in a tent. I could answer in three ways.
1) I could say, "sleeping in a tent is horrible because ....{insert reasons}...don't ever do it you'll hate it".
or
2) I don't particular care for it myself because...{insert reasons}...but many do seem to enjoy it so the best thing to do would be to try it and see for yourself. (the best way)
or, this is the worst
3) I've never slept in a tent but seems like it would be horrible, I knew a guy once ....{insert story}...so I wouldn't even try it if I were you.

Sorry, off topic but I get annoyed sometimes at this.
 
I don't understand how a Physician Assistants (PA) can qualify for a loan repayment program but a RN is ineligible.
 
VanKitten said:
I stumbled across information on the web about some student loans can be discharged in chapter 7 bankruptcy.

I'm no attorney, but I have long understood that the only practical way to discharge student loans is if you are disabled.  I believe the standard the courts use is whether repaying the loan will cause an "undue hardship" to repay.  That may sound easy, but AFAIK the only real reason they'll discharge them is if you just physically can't pay them no matter what.  

As Kat said though, it couldn't hurt to talk to a bankruptcy attorney, just don't get your hopes up.  If it were that easy every art or English major who ends up working at Starbucks would be in bankruptcy court after a couple of years because they can't repay their loans.
 
Bankruptcy? Intentionally not pay? When did these things become okay? You signed contracts. You received a benefit from your education.
It's not easy being adults and taking care of obligations. Do what the older generation would have done. Get FULL time jobs on opposite shifts so y'all don't have to pay for child care. Work overtime. Live on wheels. Make more -- spend less.
 
These things became "OK" starting in ancient antiquity, which is why advocacy for debt jubilees are found in historic texts like the Code of Hammurabi, Bible, etc. - many cultures have dealt with the slave <-> slaver relationship of debt in much the same way; such as the United States during the debt moratorium in the US Panic of 1819 and the gold clauses nullification during the Great Depression.

Doing what the older generation would have done is not possible for all graduates today. The "older generation" would have gone to school for free or paid off their tuition working one summer at an ice cream parlor, while some today that made bad ROI choices when they were 17-18 year old have functionally signed over a large percentage of their income for the rest of their working lives for an education or partial education that may be a net-negative outcome for them.

That being said, claiming bankruptcy on student debt in the US is almost impossible like Nick said unless you become a completely disabled near-vegetable. If you have the ability to work in any capacity, the banks want their money no ifs, ands, or buts.

Starting with the Great Recession the US and many western cultures have dealt with debt in a very different way that is relatively new compared to the last 20-30 centuries of human history - they have decided to bail out the creditors to the tune of trillions of dollars of 0% loans, asset repurchases, and publicly insuring risky business activities with tax money, while simultaneously expecting the debtor class to suck it up, give back their houses and pay student loans which may now be the single largest purchase of many people's lives, vs. that "older generations" purchase of economically productive assets like homes and automobiles that boosted the economy rather than drag it down.

Student loans were a bankers solution to the problem of creating a highly educated society based on intellectual rather than manufacturing output while simultaneously cutting public funding for higher education. This introduced massive inefficiencies that caused debt levels to spiral out of control. The aforementioned debt-repayment, partial forgiveness, and public service benefits are a banker's band-aid fix to the economic fallout from this partial privatization of education funding, without which the "bubble would pop" , and demand for higher education would have likely plummeted. This is not a problem in the "not enough educated workers" arena, but rather a "smaller supply of educated workers" problem - which means wage appreciation - which is public enemy number one in the board room.

While I can understand the allure of the Holier than Thou attitude toward your fellow citizen's that are worse off than you are, you have to understand the economic repercussions of making such mind-numbingly poor social policy decisions. If you saddle a large percentage of young workers with insurmountable debt loads, you will reduce the economic demand for items and services that keep you employed at your jobs, reduce investment in public companies that fund your pensions, and reduce the income potential of the new working class that is supposed to foot the bill for your Social Security Insurance programs. Meanwhile, bank investors and bond-holders (both corporate and federal) will benefit from these very economically unproductive interest payments that could have been far better utilized keeping the economy you all depend on functioning with spending.

It's not rocket science, but it's also not a very well understood issue in the general population. We live in a consumer economy, like it or not - and the debtor/working class are the largest "demand engine" we have. If we pursue economics that drastically reduce that demand, our little game of musical chairs is not going to end well for anyone depending on the continued functioning of that consumer system, especially those who are in debt or collecting retirement benefits under that system.

The post-depression US public education system, for all its many faults, became the model for almost the entire western world, and it's one of the main reasons we leap-frogged other countries in productive output in the past century. Education is well understood to be the single largest bonus for economic productivity, and if you put that education system at risk you are gambling with a lot more than students learning the life lesson of pay what the bank says you owe no matter what.

If anyone even read that whole post, they deserve a cookie at the very least!
 
Ditto.


And AVM, very well said, thanks you for taking to time to research and write that out.
 
I'll take that cookie. I figured I'd get some heat from experts who will try to explain why my thinking is so stinking. The above poster even got in a Holier Than Thou zinger.
Perhaps I could be a lot more empathic of the original poster if he and his wife were actually working full time.
 
I'll bring the cookies to RTR! And I wasn't trying to be mean or snide or anything, just saying that we chose what our social contracts are going to be with each other, each choice and how we frame it has its own set of consequences.

I'm under the impression that one of Bob's major tenets is not giving yourself over to work relentlessly for "the man" at the expense of your own happiness or well being, but I realize not everyone on here comes to the same conclusion on those grounds. Not a major problem, just some disagreement or what have you.

But why focus on our current definition of full time work if you want to defend the rights of the ownership class and their money collected from interest payments? Why not repeal the hard-won worker's rights and expand the workweek for indebted workers? 60 hours or 80 hours would make the bankers and the fed whole at lot sooner, no? The 40 hour week is already over double the amount of labor required to subsist in primitive agrarian societies, why not triple it or more? Just something to think about.

The great benefit if we require everyone to work more is that there will be less time for pesky working class troubles like social events or organizing, where people might come together and agree on ways to change their quality of life for the better, perhaps at the expense of maximum profits of the wealthiest among us. These are choices we have to make, and I don't think it always comes down to hard line right or wrong, black and white, etc.
 
I will take that " Holier than thou" attitude to those that want a free ride through life. You make your choices about signing for a loan, if YOU are not intelligent enough to realize that loan obligates you to repay it, then perhaps higher education is not for you.

My ex and I worked our asses off to pay for our kids education not a loan among the four, all gainfully employed in their career field and contributing to society rather than being a drain on MY tax dollars that are paying for those 'free educations' that many choose not work in.

If you want to take a look at someone with a "Holier Than Thou" attitude, check the mirror.

I am in fact part of the older generation that earned my way through school, not by "working in an ice cream parlor" but by getting my ass shot at in the Marines and earning my GI bill.

Self entitled people who think everything is owed to them disgust me. Grow a pair and go to work. Instead of that Liberal Arts degree in flower arrangement get a degree that is useful and will pay enough to repay loans. I doubt if there was anyone sticking a gun in anyone's back to sign the loan papers. Just give me the money and I'll whine about it and not do damn thing to fix it.
 
AVM said "I'll bring the cookies to RTR! And I wasn't trying to be mean or snide or anything" which is bullshit. You did mean to be snide and accuse another generation for your mistakes.

Repaying a loan is part of being honest, if you had or have no intention of paying the loan , you are a liar. And a thief.
 
Ha gsfish! I understand the sentiment, and I hope Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Chase, Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs appreciated all that glorious taxpayer money too. I know WF must have really been thinking of the taxpayer and repaying those good-natured bailouts by scamming them out of millions in fake account fees that hit the news wire this week! I'm sure HSBC was thinking of those wonderful taxpayers when they were laundering billions in cartel drug money as well.

We paid six digits of student loans in full with interest (and benefited from the GI Bill), and I'm now very nearly completely in that ownership class that benefits from the debt of the working stiffs, and as long as nothing changes I'll be out of the "world of work" in less than 10 years in our late 30's paid for courtesy of the debtor public at large that pays my stock dividends. Doesn't mean I think it's the best system in the world, far from it.

It would have been far cheaper and more socially beneficial to keep the public education system and cut out out the banker middle men that are making huge profits on the current system. We don't have to cut them out, and by all means defend them if you wish - I'm a direct beneficiary of this social policy. I'm glad some of you were able to pay for your kid's college, my family was not. We paid that price, and now your kids will likely subsidize us as we are one of the shrinking class of "winners" at this perverse roulette table.

I have preserved this thread and responses for those who wish to read them in the future, and will continue to do so for threads and posts that are worthwhile and interesting, but run afoul of our better natured forum minders, hit me up via PM if you want to keep discussing or branch into more taboo corners of conversation. :)
 
"I'm under the impression that one of Bob's major tenets is not giving yourself over to work relentlessly for "the man" at the expense of your own happiness or well being". But I've never seen Bob type that a person should ignore their debts that they voluntarily agreed to accept.

I understand what you are saying. And I imagine that working less than 40 hours is a dream most of us would have liked to have enjoyed. Is 12 hours a week reasonable? To me, it's not. To others it might be fine. If it is, then where is those other hours coming from in the workforce? At 12 hours, my school district would have had to hire at least two teachers for every currently working teacher.

I'd like to see college costs go down. The fat cats aren't going to get tapped for it. On a fixed income I cannot afford to pay another tax on my retired teacher pension.
 
Yep. I did it. Although not an RN, living in a van allowed me to pay off my uni loans as fast as I could possibly do it. I recommend it to anyone who has uni loans, no matter how much they are. (Mine was only 50K) Took me two years, alot of ramen, and a determined doggedness that not many would understand.
 
I after reading many of the responses here I decided to go back and reread the OP. At the very end the question was asked of "anyone know any way to get rid of student loans?

I think really the first appropriate question here should have been "what exactly do you mean when you say get rid of"?. Get rid of for free or someway that may help pay them down such as a 2 year commitment that would help repay. But we didn't...
Therefore everyone took their own interpretation. Some were good, and some responses were disgusting.
Did you pay for their AA degrees at a Community College or did you send them to a University? I mean, that's great if you paid for it all with out loans but somehow I doubt they all went to Universities. Correct me if I'm wrong. And second, do you have any I idea how expensive an education has become? And third, just because YOU didn't get into debt from paying their education, your basically putting everyone in your own shoes and not seeing that maybe not everyone had your exact situation. 
The other odd thing here is so many have said they need to work more yet so much of the concept with this whole forum/website is too not work as much and enjoy life. 

I was able to to stay completely debt free for three and half years going to Community College. Once I was excepted to the University I had to get loans. When done I'll have a touch over 60 grand I have to pay back. Fortunately I have no other debt and I really like living in my van. I'll have to pay back everything as I'm not going to mess up my otherwise good credit score...even though I don't intend on financing anything. Do you guy s know that employers can check your credit score. Even if you don't finance stuff a good credit score is kinda important.
 
Easy answer.
2 oldest graduated from University of North Texas
Oldest son, University of Texas at Arlington
Youngest son Texas A&M
Second set of kids.
University Texas at Arlington
Last but not least, Rice University, currently at University of Texas Southwestern Medical School.

You can doubt all you want. I don't lie and I REALLY don't like being called a liar.

The son who graduated from A&M did go one year of Community College before transferring.

If you think being told to grow a pair is disgusting, PM me and I will be glad to further your education.
 
AngryVanMan said:
 The 40 hour week is already over double the amount of labor required to subsist in primitive agrarian societies.

Yeah.  Subsist in a mud hut.  If that is the life you want, go for it.
 
This thread is crossing some lines with regard to our,"Play nice," rules. It's a hot topic with many sides. I'm going to close it, for the time being.
The admins and mods will decide what stays and what goes.
 
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