Electrical install near Barstow CA

[benghockey]

PREFACE: This post went on longer than planned, so skip to the final paragraph for specific questions to avoid the introduction.

Hello all-

I have been lurking around for a while, and I am about 70% complete with a van conversion project. I am planning on writing up my conversion to share with everyone when finished, but I am in need of some technical advice. To make a long story short- I will be moving in to my van temporarily (3-6 months) due to unique circumstances, after which time it will become a vacation camper. Due to outside circumstances I have only had about a month and a half to complete this job, and as with any project there have been plenty of bumps along the way that have set me back a bit. Today I found out I will need to move in to my van about a week sooner than anticipated, so I am trying to kick things in to high gear. I've had to cut back my plans considerably due to time constraints, and I consider the initial 3-6 month period to be "Van 1.0", after which I can take that experience/ lack of time constraints to complete a prettier final product. I have the basic interior built to a "tent on wheels" level that will certainly be ready by move in day as a worst case. Unfortunately, I am running out of time for the electrical build. To compound this, I have just moved near Barstow, CA for work and left my "electrical advisor" behind in Alabama. Through research online and his advice, here is what I'm currently working with:

~ 250 W Renogy Panel (originally ordered two, one was broken in shipping so I had to return it and don't currently have an address for another to be shipped)
~ 2 x VMAX 6 v 225 ah AGM batteries (planned for four, but with only one panel for the time being I'm sticking with two)
~ Tracer 321RN 30 A MPPT controller
~ Renogy 1000 W pure sine inverter
~ TM 2030 Battery Monitor
~ SC- 10030 Battery Charger (Backup charger for poor-weather use with shore power, and to get the batteries ready to go initially)
~ Blue Sea 12 circuit fuse box

Currently the only wiring I have is a 4 gauge inverter cable kit that I bought bundled with the inverter. I'm not too worried about the wiring of the smaller DC components off the fuse box, but for information purposes I'm currently planning four muffin fans, two LED lights and two 12v outlets during Van 1.0 with more expansion in the future (that will better justify the original system size I had planned). My sticking point right now is the actual wiring for connecting the batteries, the charge controller, and the inverter. I've read many helpful guides here and other places, but I am concerned about my craftsmanship from a safety perspective when it comes to cutting and joining wires, installing in-line fuses on the inverter lines, etc. Specifically I am wondering:

1) Is there anyone in the Barstow area or a couple hour radius available on an upcoming weekend that might be willing to help guide the installation of these components (and of course, I will compensate you for your time)? I definitely want to be a part of the process so that I can make modifications and expansions in the future, but I don't want to risk a short or fire due to shoddy technique. I'd like to complete this as soon as possible. At the very least, maybe someone to look at everything afterwards and point out flaws/ shoddy workmanship?
2) I also am looking for any information on preferably local sourcing for custom runs of the heavier duty wiring (specifically for the battery circuit itself, and a run to the alternator if I go that route) or online options that will deliver to a PO box (so far other options I've found searching here haven't been able to ship to my box).
3) Failing #1 and #2 above, is there anyone willing to accept PMs pertaining to a more in depth look at each wiring section, for example someone I can bounce off wire gauges and fuse placement after going in to the exact dimensions and lengths of everything inside.


I look forward to hearing back from anyone out there.

Ben

 

[akrvbob]

It's all surprisingly easy to do. Every step of the way is just positive to positive and negative to negative. It really is that simple. The two big things are getting a big enough cable and getting good crimps. If you can do that, it's easily within your reach. You aren't dealing with lot of power, so the crimps don't have to be perfect. If you can afford to buy a quality crimping tool, then it becomes pretty easy.

I didn't think Renogy made 250 watt panels, but I'm no expert. What's the voltage of the panel? You need to know that to know the size of the cable. As long as everything is close so you have short wire runs, I think 10 gauge from the panel and 8 gauge from the controller would be fine. It's not hard to get a good crimp on that small a wire.

I think there is a good chance you can do it and if you can post pictures as you go along we could walk you through it.
Bob

 

[benghockey]

Thanks for the quick reply Bob. I think I will give it a go then. I'll start posting some pictures tomorrow when I have a better internet connection.

The panel is 250 W and 24 v (http://www.renogy-store.com/Renogy-250W-24V-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel-p/rng-250d-bk.htm) . It came with some 10 gauge wiring that is compatible with their connectors, but I think I will need to order a longer version to keep the charge controller closer to the batteries.

I guess my biggest concern is the wires that will connect the batteries themselves as well as the grounding wire, and eventually a wire running to the alternator (with a switch). Should I look in to having these made specially, or would setting them up myself be an option?

 

[rvwandering]

Hi Ben, we just passed through Barstow last weekend. If you'd just posted a bit sooner we'd have been very close and able to help. We're going to be around Hanford, California through this weekend. It's kind of far from you but if you're willing to drive up Tony could help with the install. Compensation isn't necessary. Send us a private message if you decided on that and we can figure out a place to meet.

But as Bob said in his post above, it's not difficult and you can do it on your own. Posting pictures as you go along would work great.

 

[akrvbob]

Being 24 volt means that 10 gauge ill work from the panels to controller and 8 gauge should be fine from controller to batteries, just keep it close.

You're right to be concerned about the cable from alternator to house battery. It should be 4 gauge and it's harder to crimp them that big. I would have that made by a pro with better tools. We have a thread going now about where to get your wires. If you can't find someone local to make you can order it. The ground wire should be as large as your largest wire to the inverter. With a 1000 watt inverter I'd use 0 gauge depending on length and 0 gauge for the ground also. That might be a little large but better too large than too small. Again, I'd get those professionally made. It should be fused at the positive post with a 150 amp fuse.

The connector on the panel is an MC4 and they are commonly availabe as extensions. You need to buy one twice the size you need for the run and then cut it in half. That will leave you with a male and female to connect to the panel and the other end will be bare to strip and crimp to the controller.
Bob

 

[LoupGarou]

IMO, selecting the components you want to use is the easy part. Its connecting them all together that's hard. Each component can have different connection types and sizes that need to be researched. There could be a mix of both 5/16" and 3/8" studs that need to be thought out.

I attached some JPEGs of a design I'm currently working on, it might give you some ideas or it may add more confusion. I think adding additional bus bars as circled in the photo is a great way to add connections for your 12VDC fuse block, alternator and solar connections. Keep in mind that my design may not work for you, but is an example of how I attacked it. The documents that came with ALL your components should have examples on how to connect them up. I would recommend pulling them together for a very high level block diagram, then fine tune it from there. A virtual build on paper will result in a component list that brings it all together.

 

[LoupGarou]

I almost forgot; does the TM 2030 Battery Monitor come with a shunt?

If not, you'll need to source one.

 

[VJG1977]

I did a quick search for "UPS Store" near Barstow and came up with this location about 35 miles away.

20258 HWY 18 STE 430
APPLE VALLEY, CA 92307


Four other locations near by.

http://http://applevalley-ca-5925.theupsstorelocal.com/

1. 
   At The UPS Store®, you can get a mailbox with a real street address and secure 24-hour access* to mail and package deliveries. Additional services include mail forwarding**, fax receiving and the ability to call in and check for new mail. We can even text or email you when your mail and/or packages arrive.

 

[MikeRuth]

This one works

http://applevalley-ca-5925.theupsstorelocal.com/

Link above is bad!

 

[benghockey]

IMO, selecting the components you want to use is the easy part. Its connecting them all together that's hard. Each component can have different connection types and sizes that need to be researched. There could be a mix of both 5/16" and 3/8" studs that need to be thought out.

I attached some JPEGs of a design I'm currently working on, it might give you some ideas or it may add more confusion. I think adding additional bus bars as circled in the photo is a great way to add connections for your 12VDC fuse block, alternator and solar connections. Keep in mind that my design may not work for you, but is an example of how I attacked it. The documents that came with ALL your components should have examples on how to connect them up. I would recommend pulling them together for a very high level block diagram, then fine tune it from there. A virtual build on paper will result in a component list that brings it all together.

Thank you for the design picture. I've been working on one lately but I definitely think adjusting some things to more closely mirror your diagram will make things easier in my set up.

The battery monitor does require a 500 A/ 50 mV shunt that it didn't come with, so I will have to add that to the shopping list. Looking at the installation instructions I will have to have at least one bus if not two to keep things clean/ get the full functionality of the monitor.

I was able to find an address to ship things to today, but I appreciate all the help with the UPS store options above- definitely a good backup plan if my current arrangement falls through. I also have found a temporary set up with relatively affordable shore power for the time being, so I can take a step back and take the time to do everything right before heading off grid.

 

[highdesertranger]

well you are about 2 hours(depending on traffic) from me. I am in orange county. low tech another member here is out that way, I believe 29 palms. some friends of mine were heading out to Barstow this week end I wish I could have gone. anyhow like bob said it's not that hard. if you need a hand and if I am free I will lend a hand. highdesertranger

 

[benghockey]

Okay so I apologize, but I am back for more.

Attached is a (very) rough sketch of what I'm looking to do based on the advice in this thread/other threads and the wiring instructions for the different components. Please let me know if anything looks out of place, and where I can improve. I have a few specific questions as well (bear with me, I hope they are not too ignorant):

1) How should I go about sizing the solenoid? I have an '06 E-150 and from what I can tell the alternator puts out 95 amps, so a 100 amp solenoid should work, correct? Additionally, should I fuse the connection between the solenoid and the alternator at that same 100 amps? Will this set up allow me to use the house batteries if my starting battery drains while stationary, and if not what am I missing? Lastly, do I need a smaller wire running from the negative bus to power the solenoid or is there a better way (perhaps off the alternator - or something?)
2) The manual that came with my charge controller says to fuse the positive wire, but does not give a size for the fuse. Since it is rated at 30 amps, would it then follow that the fuse should be 30 amps as well?
3) The inverter has a separate ground on the AC side of the device. How should I go about grounding it? Since it is on that side of the device is it indicating it needs a true ground?
4) For fuses on bigger cables that I am not making myself (specifically the 150 amp fuse on the inverter wire, and), are there manufacturers that can build that in or do I need to buy a length of cable, a fuse holder with ring terminals, and then a short length afterward?
5) For the bus bars themselves, does it need to have a separate terminal for each connection or could I use one that has four 5/16 in posts and put two ring connectors on one post (with the same wire gauge going to each component coming off.) An example would be the 2 gauge ground wire and the 2 gauge negative wire to the inverter leaving from the same post of the bus.

Thanks everyone for all the help thus far. I am hoping to get all the components this weekend and be able to install next week/ weekend so that I can move off the shore power I'm currently relying on.

Ben

 

[highdesertranger]

ok I will try to answer.
1 I would go higher like a 150 amp. but that's me, I believe it's 10% more is what is recommended.
2 you choose the fuse to protect the wire. for 8g I would go bigger.
3 ground to frame.
4 yes you need 2 separate cables.
5 no you don't need separate terminals for every wire. you can piggyback. however don't exceed the amp rating of the stud.
hope this helps. others might chime in with more refined answers. highdesertranger