Wiring panels

[Oopslala]

Although my purchasing of solar panels is far away, I do plan on getting as much knowledge on them as soon as possible so when the moment comes I can do everything flawlessly, if possible.

I planned on using a pop up I own to do some long term boondocking, but opted not to do that, because there can be some terrible winds everywhere, which will lead to canvas problems quickly.  As of this moment, I will be purchasing a travel trailer or fifth wheel, along with that I plan on getting 4 renogy 100w solar panels to start with (potentially more if needed).  

Obviously when you buy a camper, you have lots of accessories that come with it! Fridge, freezer, and all of the other goodies.   Is there anyway to wire the solar panels to the to all of the accessories at 1 access point so I don't have to do each individually?

Also, as I understand, a/c and heat can do some major damage when it comes to amps/hour.  The camper I'll be getting most likely will have ducted a/c.  I do not believe it will have electric heat, as it's not listed.

Have any of you ever wired your panels to all of the already existing appliances at 1 access point?  

Do any of you use a/c, if so, how many more amps/hour does it use?

If I've left out information you need, feel free to ask.  Better to feel like an idiot now, rather than an idiot later minus thousands of dollars!

 

[SternWake]

You do not wire solar panels directly to appliances, though it is possible in some instances.

You wire them to the battery bank to recharge it. The battery than powers the devices.

Basically when the sun is shining the current needed by the device, is less than the solar output, the current does not pass through the battery,

But don'k of it like that. the battery powers the devices/appliances, the solar recharges the battery.

 

[Oopslala]

You do not wire solar panels directly to appliances, though it is possible in some instances.

You wire them to the battery bank to recharge it.  The battery than powers the devices.
 
Basically when the sun is shining the current needed by the device, is less than the solar output, the current does not pass through the battery,

But don'k of it like that.  the battery powers the devices/appliances, the solar recharges the battery.

I think I worded what I meant pretty badly.  I understand for the most part that panels go to the batteries/inverter etc, then would have to go to the appliances.  I just don't want to have to wire the microwave, fridge, freezer, and everything else individually if its possible to avoid it.  Everything should meet at 1 point, normally around the fuse box correct?

I'm hoping to easily be able to send electricity to all of the appliances already wired into the camper without having to do any remodeling or tearing out of anything.

 

[LoupGarou]

You shouldn't have to wire anything but the solar panels and a controller to the RV's battery bank.

RV's have two electrical systems, AC power and DC power. AC power comes from a shore power pedestal, a generator or from the inverter. DC power comes from a converter or battery bank. A DC system that requires any considerable power (amps) will need a battery bank, its this battery bank that's charged by the solar panels via a charge controller.

Some RV appliances can run off AC or DC power. A roof mounted A/C unit will require both AC and DC power, (for thermostat control).

Buy your trailer, add your solar panels and controller and connect the controller to the battery bank and you should be good to go. Run any high power AC loads, like the A/C unit, only off a shore power pedestal or generator.

 

[TMG51]

I think I worded what I meant pretty badly.  I understand for the most part that panels go to the batteries/inverter etc, then would have to go to the appliances.  I just don't want to have to wire the microwave, fridge, freezer, and everything else individually if its possible to avoid it.  Everything should meet at 1 point, normally around the fuse box correct?

I'm hoping to easily be able to send electricity to all of the appliances already wired into the camper without having to do any remodeling or tearing out of anything.

Any appliances in the RV that already run off DC, are already wired to the battery, and you will not have to wire them. You just wire the panels and controller to the battery.

Items like the microwave are AC and will only run off the battery if there's a power inverter present. As others have pointed out, it's not generally feasible to run an air conditioner without plugging into AC power somewhere (shore power, generator).

 

[Oopslala]

Any appliances in the RV that already run off DC, are already wired to the battery, and you will not have to wire them. You just wire the panels and controller to the battery.

Items like the microwave are AC and will only run off the battery if there's a power inverter present. As others have pointed out, it's not generally feasible to run an air conditioner without plugging into AC power somewhere (shore power, generator).

My rig won't be an actual RV, it's a fifth wheel.  As far as I know, it won't have a battery bank already, so I'm not sure how I could wire it all if there's no specific point where all the wiring for appliances converge

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

My rig won't be an actual RV, it's a fifth wheel.  As far as I know, it won't have a battery bank already, so I'm not sure how I could wire it all if there's no specific point where all the wiring for appliances converge

Commercially built travel trailers and fifth wheels all have a least one house battery.  They all have converters, too.  (Not that anyone here thinks much of converters.) Larger battery banks are frequently an option.

Regards
John

 

[WheelEstate USA]

You may be asking a lot from a 400W setup and the batteries it will support.
Assess your power needs and start there to determine how much solar/batt.
Otherwise, install all you can afford and learn live with what it produces.

 

[highdesertranger]

2 systems in an RV(yes a 5th wheel or travel trailer is a RV). you have 12vDC and 120vAC. your higher draw items will run on 120v. you will need a high output pure sine wave invertor and a huge battery bank to run the 120v side, big bucks(not the antlered type). 400watts solar is going to barely do the micro and will not do the A/C. as far as the refer goes running off electricity if it's an absorption, is not efficient at all. as far as your pop up goes, is it a tent trailer or a pop up camper? if it's a pop up camper you could replace the canvas with impregnated material, like what they make rafts out of. this is tough stuff, 100% waterproof and you can laminate thinsolite insulation to it for some insulation and condensation control. I say a tent trailer built this way. it actually had three layers the outer skin, the thinsolite, and an inner material. unfortunately I don't know the name of the company and only have seen one. highdesertranger

 

[Oopslala]

That's the thing, I plan on getting the rig set up and being 100% ready to go and debt free before I take off on my adventure.  I'm really hoping i can get it all done within the next year if I bust my butt.  I've pretty much got the camper locked down.  Next will be getting the solar panels and batteries.

I understand I won't know exactly what I need until I get some panels, turn everything on I want to use, and see what I need from there, but from what I've read you can have a rough estimate of panels etc you'll need.  

As I don't have the camper, I don't have measurements of the roof so I don't know the maximum amount of panels, but I know for a fact I could fit at least 6 on there, possible 8-10.  That's a lot of dough, though.

Do any of you run your entire camper off of solar, if so how many panels/watts do you use?

 

[Canine]

The only things you want to run off solar are the 12 volt things.Otherwise you need an inverter to run 115volt appliances like a tv or clock.AC will suck your batteries dry fast and you will need extra heavy wire between the batteries and inverter.Most roof mount AC's are 15000 btu,which will pull 10-12 amps of alternating current.Which translates to 100-120 amps of direct current.For Air Cond. you would be better off buying a 2000 watt genny.Of course this is just my opinion,and you know what they say about opinions.

 

[Luisafernandes]

I believe you're thinking of something like this;

All my 12v stuff goes to the fuse box. The TV plugs into a surge protector, which in turn plugs into a 1500watt inverter.

 

[Seraphim]

It's easy to run you're camper off solar if you control your usage. No AC, minimal microwave, propane powered heat, stove and fridge, and LED lighting. We don't watch TV in the unit. 400 watts is overkill for us.

 

[Seraphim]

Your electrical panel has two sides: AC (110v) and DC (12v). When you plug into shore power, current goes to the AC side. From that side, all 110 volt devices are powered. There's also a converter coming from the AC side, which converts AC to DC and sends it to the DC side. The battery also sends DC power to the DC side of the electrical panel. All 12v devices are powered from that side. Adding panels and a solar charger sends DC power to the battery. Everything is already set up in your fifth wheel, except the solar panels and the charge controller. You don't have to worry wiring any devices: it's already set up.

 

[Oopslala]

Thank you to everyone giving replies and advice.  It's definitely helping me quite a bit in getting the idea in my head. 

I'm contemplating anything from 400 watts to 800 watts of panels at this point.  The biggest reason for considering more panels if the refrigerator, and peace of mind knowing I won't run out of power on those gloomy weeks.  Mostly the refrigerator though.  

I'm also undecided whether I'll go with MPPT or PWM panels.  The more I read, the more I see mixed reviews (obviously).  From reading a lot on HandyBob's website, I get the image that on RV's, especially smaller RV's, MPPT may not be worth the extra dollars.

What appliances are generally DC in RV's?  

I'm hoping to have the 5th wheel within a week or so, then I'll really be able to get a diagram going and figure everything out down to the T.

 

[Seraphim]

It's the controller that's PMW or MPPT. If you're concerned about the power, go MPPT, or you won't get full amperage from the panels.

 

[Oopslala]

Wow, I feel like an idiot haha.  That makes so much more sense now, reading a bunch of forums and threads I was so confused about that.  That definitely helps a lot!

Definitely going to go with MPPT then, i'll probably end up going with a morningstar.  If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it right while I still have a good income.

 

[highdesertranger]

oopslala. what type of refrigerator do you have? you should have a 2way(propane and 120v) or a 3way(propane, 120v, and 12v). either way when camped you want to run it off propane. the electrical side off those is very inefficient. the only time you want to run off 12v is when your alternator is supplying the power. it is also illegal to run off propane while on the road. highdesertranger

 

[Oopslala]

I'm not 100% sure whether it is a 2way or 3way. I know it auto kicks to propane if there's no electricity to it.

Propane might be the better way to go, with money in mind. I'll definitely do some testing once I get the fifth wheel within the next week. It will almost certainly be cheaper to spend the money on propane every 2 weeks or month rather than dropping another $2000 on adding to a solar system, which may not even be enough juice for the fridge/freezer. I'll also be using propane with the oven and stove top as well. May have to pick up a couple propane tanks just in case.

That means I should be able to manage off of 400 watts easily then! That makes this a lot cheaper and easier.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Wow, I feel like an idiot haha.  That makes so much more sense now, reading a bunch of forums and threads I was so confused about that.  That definitely helps a lot!

Definitely going to go with MPPT then, i'll probably end up going with a morningstar.  If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it right while I still have a good income.

A couple of comments:

1. It isn't that the panels are PMW or  MPPT.  But the way you WIRE them affects your choice.  If you wire them in parallel, you can use either, but if you wire them in series, you MUST use MPPT to step the higher voltage down.

2.  Given the price difference between PMW and MPPT controllers, (45 amp Morningstar PMW = $160 vs 45 amp Morningstar MPPT = $410) it can sometimes be a smarter choice to just buy another panel (if you have the room for it).  3 panels with a PMW controller, will give you more usable power than 2 panels with an MPPT controller will, and probably cost less as well.

Regards
John