Where is the ground for grounding devices?.

[squirbel]

I know it is important, but how do I identify it?

I am planning my electrical system.

While we're at it, what are these "panels" people speak of that the batteries are connected to?

Thanks in advance!

 

[highdesertranger]

are you talking 120v or 12v?  do you mean solar panels or fuse panels?  highdesertranger

 

[squirbel]

Those panels that go from the 12 v (combined) batteries, and divert to various appliances. Like in an rv?

Also asking about fuse boxes <img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Gotta define what you wanna know.<br>If you are talking about 12 volt ground on a vehicle the whole frame and any metal in contact with it is the "ground" or negative which is connected to the battery. The other post on the battery with the red wire is positive. Don't touch the two or sparks will fly and you can blow out some stuff.<br><br>Panels?? These can be fuse panels, but you might be reading about people who use solar panels to produce power to keep up their batteries. This subject can get complicated, but vans are kinda easy to set up for solar with the help of some of the bunch here.

 

[squirbel]

Hmmm. You answered my question about ground, thanks!

Regarding panels, I was kinda referring to ones that provide power to 12v devices and the connection to the inverter, which supplies the 120v. I'm looking to stay organized, and I want to build a full system, akin to what is found in a home. A central fuse box, etc. hope I was clear this time! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> I'm learning as I go so point out my mistakes.

 

[highdesertranger]

ah power distribution panel.&nbsp; on a rv this is like your fuse panel at a house but it's a combo unit 120v/12v.&nbsp; the inverter usually connects directly to the battery.&nbsp;if you don't have a shore power inlet then you don't need a combo unit unless you have a hard wired inverter.&nbsp; &nbsp;highdesertranger

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Yup, you can do that, but it can get a bit complicated for the beginner. Don't let it discourage you tho. Study up and find a friend to to assist if you need help. Cost is a factor, as you need big gauge wire that can cost, so you'll want to keep those "runs" short and connections have to be primo.<br><br>I think Margie just left you something in the Girl's Room <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[squirbel]

Thanks! I plan to hardwire my inverter, that's why. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

Plus install a bunch of house outlets so it looks like a house!

 

[James AKA Lynx]

The batteries can drain quite quickly unless you are plugged in.&nbsp; <br><br>On the high amp loads it is best not to use the body and frame as the ground. Make sure your ground wires cannot come loose. Secure everything close and oversize the wire. <br><br>Study well and start simple.<br><br>Best, James AKA Lynx

 

[coultergeist]

The power distribution panel I'm using is made by wfco.&nbsp; Just look up WFCO on ebay and you should pull up some of the panels.&nbsp; They come in 30 amp and 50 amp versions.&nbsp; It simplifies wiring a good bit.&nbsp; It has a 120v ac side for circuit breakers.&nbsp; The other side is a 12v dc fuse panel.&nbsp; Keeps everything neat and organized.&nbsp; There are terminal lugs on the 12v side for connecting a battery and charger/converter.&nbsp; <br><br>They are a really good deal.&nbsp; You can find them on ebay all the time for $30-$40 including shipping.&nbsp; <br><br>I got a 50 amp panel by mistake, but it is easily converted to 30 amp if that's what you need.&nbsp; Either would work fine in just about any van conversion.

 

[squirbel]

If the appliance is not plugged into the outlet, does it still draw?

 

[squirbel]

Thanks coultergeist!

What drives my decision making between 30 and 50?

 

[James AKA Lynx]

things should not draw current if plugged in. "IF" is a big bad word. ALWAYS unplug things when not in use. That little switch could fail and cause you major problems.<br><br>Panel amp ratings = how many amps you intend to use through the panel. If price and space is not an option, get the biggest you can. Please note that you will have to back up the amps with a power supply that can handle it.<br><br>James AKA Lynx

 

[squirbel]

What little switch?

Does power supply refer to the batteries? i think it does. Will 2 t105 225Ah batteries be good enough for a 50A panel? I may get 2 more batteries as time goes on, if needs exceed my current setup.

 

[blars]

The 30 or 50 amps refers to the AC side, power connections in RV parks are 30 amps at 120 volts or 50 amps at 240 volts.&nbsp; (So the 50 Amp gives you more than 3 times as much power as the 30 amp.)&nbsp; <br><br>The breaker box, fuse panel, and converter were built as one unit in my motorhome.&nbsp; I removed the crappy converter part and replaced it with a moderen 3-stage converter.&nbsp;

 

[squirbel]

?????

I'm talking about internal off the grid power, here. Where do 30 and 50 Amp panels come in regarding internal power to devices? I need to know which to choose, but it seems like 30A is the one I want.

 

[coultergeist]

For most uses 30 amp is more than enough.&nbsp; 50 amp connections are mainly for large rv's with most everything powered by 120 volt ac.&nbsp; In a van conversion or something similar, you will typically only have relatively small 120 volt ac loads.&nbsp; My microwave is my biggest one normally.&nbsp; It draws just over 1000 watts at full power.&nbsp; That is the equivalent of about 10 amps.&nbsp; With a 30 amp connection you would still have about 20 amps available for everything else.&nbsp; A large LCD tv and dvd player together would draw probably in the 1 amp range or less as a comparison.&nbsp; <br><br>The 30 amp and 50 amp services are connections you would have at an rv or camper site at a park if you were to plug into their ac.&nbsp; You can get adapters cheaply to go from one connections type to the other, so ultimately it doesn't matter which you use for a small application.&nbsp; 30 amp cables are far less expensive than 50 amp cables.&nbsp; That is probably the only real deciding factor.&nbsp; <br><br>If you are not at a place where you can plug into their 120 volt, then you will need an inverter to provide yourself with 120 volts from your batteries.&nbsp; If you plan to use a microwave, then you will need one in the 1500 to 2000 watt range for that.&nbsp; Most other devices need far less power.&nbsp; I recommend a 2000 watt inverter for a microwave if you plan on having one and a smaller inverter for everything else.&nbsp; Inverters always use power themselves just by being turned on.&nbsp; The larger the inverter, the larger this standby power use usually is.&nbsp; You are only going to use a microwave for a short period of time.&nbsp; With a larger inverter dedicated to it, you would just turn it on when you need it and leave it off the rest of the time.&nbsp; The standby draw would be very little done this way.&nbsp; <br><br>The 12v side is different.&nbsp; Your batteries will provide you with 12v power directly.&nbsp; How much power you will have available depends on the size and number of your batteries.&nbsp; You will connect this directly (through a large fuse) to your power distribution panel.&nbsp; Your inverters will connect to the battery bank.&nbsp; <br><br>Charging the batteries is always a big question.&nbsp; Certainly you can get a bulk charge from the alternator as you are driving if you hook it up properly to take advantage of that.&nbsp; Unless you drive pretty lengthy distances each day this will not likely completely recharge your batteries.&nbsp; It will help and will probably do a good bit, but it isn't really designed to charge them all the way.&nbsp; <br><br>Solar power is a great option.&nbsp; If you can afford it, about 200 watts or more of solar panels is ideal for most van setups.&nbsp; Should fully charge your batteries every day for the most common items you would want to power, such as fans, lights, and a small refrigerator.&nbsp; <br><br>Most rv's and many campers have what is called a power converter installed in them.&nbsp; Many of the devices in rv's and campers run off of 12v (the batteries).&nbsp; When you are sitting at a campground the vehicle isn't moving and the alternator isn't charging the batteries unless you turn the vehicle on.&nbsp; The power converter is designed to address this.&nbsp; It is similar to a battery charger.&nbsp; You plug it in to 120v ac and it charges the batteries in the vehicle.&nbsp; They are designed to also power 12v devices at the same time.&nbsp; They come in various sizes.&nbsp; They start at around 20 amps of power and go up to about 75 amps.&nbsp; They are usually a better option than a standard battery charger.&nbsp; They typically run between $100 - $200 depending on the size you get.&nbsp; Mine is 55 amps but 40 would be fine for most van based applications.&nbsp; You only need the larger units if you plan on having a really big battery bank or a lot of things that are powered constantly.&nbsp; <br><br>Hope that all helps to clarify it a little bit.

 

[squirbel]

You are so awesome! I looked for a way to friend you but there isn't a way, lol. I value your method of teaching and will bug you in the future (just teasing). Thanks!

 

[coultergeist]

You're welcome.&nbsp; I'd be glad to answer any questions you have.&nbsp; If I don't have the answer this is a great forum to find the person that does.&nbsp; You can always send me a private message if you need to.&nbsp; <br><br>Patrick