What replaces oil?

[Conundrum]

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Thank you for the reminder...
Okra!
I use both okra and soaked chia for my no-grain 'bagels'.
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Although, I bet a nickel both contain oils and fats.
Is there any hope for our oilless seeker!

A while back I was reading about the history of famines in Europe and oil as we know it today and animal fats such as lard and butter were in extremely short supply including in the country. People would go for weeks and months without any added fat. Just water and vegetables. They had many health problems due to malnutrition but cancer and heart attacks were not part of it. These two appeared and grew following exactly the increase in meat and fat consumption.

 

[Conundrum]

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re -- kitchen portrait
Thank you for your transparency.
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How are you preparing your plantains?
I slice them lengthwise, and fry them face-down in the cast-iron skillet.
Coconut oil is my lube [cue Bevis&B**thead snarking].
I suppose I could bake them, but I think they need an oil to complete the 'mouth-feel'.
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re -- nightshade family
I cannot eat nightshades -- tomato potato peppers eggplant -- so I have no suggestions for you there.
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re -- canned soup
I thrive through the creative process.
Opening a can of OPS (Other People's Soup) goes against my better nature.
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Contemplating this, I remember the Campbell Tomato Soup factory in Sacramento, California...
Wrapping around the block, vast trains of semi trucks idling in the summer sun, waiting their turn to dump their loads of hot smoldering summer tomatoes, tubs atop crushing those underneath, the fetid and festering juices squished out onto the pavement to dessicate into a tire-grabbing ooze.
Yum... not.
But you go right ahead.
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re -- 'vegantarianist'
Blindered cult, or just plain old run-of-the-mill masochists?
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re -- green bowl of black stuff
Cocoa powder?
Mole!
Carnitas!
I add weird stuff to weird stuff, and I don't care about the nay-sayers.
If it works...
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But cocoa has oils.
Bummer.

"Wrapping around the block, vast trains of semi trucks idling in the summer sun, waiting their turn to dump their loads of hot smoldering summer tomatoes, tubs atop crushing those underneath, the fetid and festering juices squished out onto the pavement to dessicate into a tire-grabbing ooze."

Nice piece of writing. NY Times quality.

 

[user 22017]

Criticism of Dr. Campbell's 'China Study' paper, if you are interested:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

 

[Conundrum]

Criticism of Dr. Campbell's 'China Study' paper, if you are interested:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/385/

Thank you. I read it. I remain unmoved by it because the intended approach seems to have been to find something to criticize at any cost, for any reason. It feels as if she was told see what you can come up with to discredit this China Study. Maybe she was paid by the meat lobby, dairy lobby, restaurants lobby, food industries lobby. She never mentions any positives or interesting contributions of the China Study. It seems her single goal was to undermine. Her qualifications are underwhelming. You are not involved in any kind of research when you are an Air Force "family practice" MD.

 

[Conundrum]

Another brand of soup to try is McDougall. He is also a book writer that I’d trust.

I don’t argue with the China study, in fact I recommend it myself!

And why don’t you cook? I don’t cook a lot myself, but it isn’t that hard. Some veggies are more nutritious when cooked than they are raw. There is pretty good evidence that cooking was a major factor in human evolution. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...s-cooking-a-pivotal-step-in-human-evolution/#

There is not enough time for everything and everyone. You have to decide how much time you want to devote to the study of the life of hummingbirds, to volunteer to pick up garbage at the beach, to write to your senator, to increase your income or to cook.

 

[LargeMarge]

... oil and vinegar and make an emulsion, I believe the emulsified oil is... helping...sticking to the leaves...

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To keep the emulsion -- avoiding its inherent tendency to separate -- whisk in a squeeze of mustard.
According to the science, mustard somehow miraculously bonds the perpetual opposites of oil and vinegar (water).
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Say... I wonder if a nice squeeze of mustard could bring our nation together, forging new bonds as we set aside our differences.
Do we have any volunteers to stand under the mustard spigot?
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Yeah, I thought not.
Worth a try.
As I suspected, just another of my weird wishes.

 

[LargeMarge]

...people who eat very differently from the way we do in contemporary America, don't have many of the worst diseases we have in abundance. Heart related and cancers in particular but also old age diseases. Some of the worst foods have been identified and one of them is oils.

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Broad brush.
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a)
My healthy oils include:
* fresh-squeezed olive
* coconut, and its off-spring MCT (Medium-Chain Triglycerides).
As you might expect, my cooking is organic.
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I avoid petroleum-based anything -- except for diesel and tires -- so factory-farm oils loaded with petroleum-based pesticides and fertilizers are 'out!'.
My 'exclusions' are:
* soy and toe-foo
* sunflower, safflower
* rape, marketed with the catchy gimmicky invented name of 'canola'
* and the rest of the seed oils such as grape.
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To extend their 'shelf-life', some oils are manufactured into something with zero resemblance to their source -- 'hydrogenated'.
According to the science, that turns a rancid poison oil into a killer.
The user's death may take decades, while the quality of life suffers so much, people often wish they were dead.
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Based on everything I read, the **DECLINE** in American health is in direct correlation to the **INCREASE** in hydrogenated oil consumption... and the use of petroleum-based pesticides and fertilizers.
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During farming, during growing, where do those petroleum-based pesticides and fertilizers reside?
In the oily parts of the seed/bean.
Then the seed/bean is squeezed, extracting the desired oil... and with it, the residual petroleum-based pesticides and fertilizers.
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Good oils and fats are essential.
Bad oils and fats are deadly.
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b)
Do not get me started on the most sprayed crop on the planet -- cotton -- and cottonseed use in feed-lots to increase inflammation in cattle and swine.
Why intentionally induce inflammation in an animal headed to slaughter?
To increase its weight, to increase the price per ton.
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Cottonseed is probably the worst of the poisonous oils.
Check out a handy can of smoked oysters.
Does that label proudly proclaim 'Cottonseed Oil!'?
Caution -- after handling the can, worsh your hands.

 

[jacqueg]

There is not enough time for everything and everyone. You have to decide how much time you want to devote to the study of the life of hummingbirds, to volunteer to pick up garbage at the beach, to write to your senator, to increase your income or to cook.

This is all true. But people do tend to find time for what is actually important to them. Your stated goal is to avoid all added fats and oils in your food. And cooking your own food is the best way to do that. Otherwise you are at the mercy of commercial food processors, and as you have noted, their definition of healthy is not necessarily the same as yours. And, oddly enough, they pretty much all claim to be selling healthy food.

 

[tamino]

The next time I go to the store I might get some [applesauce], and add garlic and tarragon to it and see how well it works.

I tried this. I definitely wouldn't have wanted to be using the regular (sweetened) kind. The unsweetened kind was sweeter than I was expecting. Apples aren't even that sweet! Go figure.

I had to add almonds (not shown in the picture) in order for my brain to perceive it as something tasty and good to eat. I did enjoy it, with the almonds.

If I hadn't had nuts on hand, I might have used crumbled up plain matzo cracker. (Ingredients: flour, water). I think it might have just been a texture thing. I felt like I was eating wet sticky lettuce. The nuts added an interesting texture that I liked. Crumbled matzo might do the same.

Me? I think I'll stick with olive oil and lemon juice. But it wasn't bad after I added the almonds.

 

[StacyK]

I wonder if something tomato based would work? (To return to your original question.) I just experimented with some tomato powder, adding water until it was the consistency I wanted, then salt, pepper, garlic powder, and dill weed. It worked pretty well. You could probably do the same with tomato paste—a tube would keep just fine in a fridge.

 

[LargeMarge]

I tried this. I definitely wouldn't have wanted...

If I hadn't had nuts...

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To your lovely mescluns salad bowl portrait, I would add:
* sardines
* chopped sprouted pumpkin seeds
* cashew cheese
* plus a nice olive oil and coconut vinegar with a squeeze of mustard with fresh chopped erbs (no 'h', I will probably get my share of that after getting booted out of TheGreatBeyond©) sauce.
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But everything I would add is on your 'off' list.
Shucks.

 

[Happy Camper]

I'm always curious when someone I know goes all in on something. Exercise, mental health, certain foods, etc.

This no oil thing is obviously something you're serious about. Is this quest and this question something they takes up a lot of your time or thoughts? Or is it just something minor you want to do and you have a lot of other things going on?

When asked in a forum like this, every question can seem like it's THE question for that person, even when it's not. It might just be a simple question for something you're trying.

I have seen people go whole hog on things. And some people only like bacon.

 

[Conundrum]

I wonder if something tomato based would work? (To return to your original question.) I just experimented with some tomato powder, adding water until it was the consistency I wanted, then salt, pepper, garlic powder, and dill weed. It worked pretty well. You could probably do the same with tomato paste—a tube would keep just fine in a fridge.

I poured a can of tomatoe soup -one of the better ones sold in glass jars- over a lettuce salad and it was barely edible.

 

[Happy Camper]

I use ranch or blue cheese on my salad. Would they work?

 

[Conundrum]

I'm always curious when someone I know goes all in on something. Exercise, mental health, certain foods, etc.

This no oil thing is obviously something you're serious about. Is this quest and this question something they takes up a lot of your time or thoughts? Or is it just something minor you want to do and you have a lot of other things going on?

When asked in a forum like this, every question can seem like it's THE question for that person, even when it's not. It might just be a simple question for something you're trying.

I have seen people go whole hog on things. And some people only like bacon.

A couple years ago when I read the China Study it showed the statistical link between nutrition and diseases such as cancers and heart related, and for the elderly, dementia, Alzheimer and perhaps even Parkinson’s.

The only way to explain why so many people get these diseases here, and nearly nobody does in countries that eat differently, is the food.

I decided then that I don’t want to be part of the 75% that will die of heart disease or cancer. It meant that I had to change my eating habits completely. I had to eliminate meat, dairy, sugar, processed food which includes refined flour and therefore pizza, white bread, pasta, cookies, pastries, doughnuts, bagels, muffins, croissants, and also on the list was oil.

Obviously I could not change everything overnight. I eliminated bad food one at a time, progressively, so that it was sustainable.

It was easy to stop cooking with oil, frying, sautéing, all of that. Where I am stuck is with salads. I have just not been able to find a good replacement so far.

 

[StacyK]

I poured a can of tomatoe soup -one of the better ones sold in glass jars- over a lettuce salad and it was barely edible.

No, I wouldn’t think soup would be nearly acidic enough to work as a dressing.

If I understand the Forks Over Knives approach correctly (which seems to be the rough approach you’re using?), they recommend avoiding oils, not fats. The idea is to eat the highly nutritious, fatty foods those oils came from—e.g., avocados rather than avocado oil, olives rather than olive oil, peanut butter rather than peanut oil. You can still make perfectly good dressings out of fatty foods, with some mashing and mixing. As jacqueg said, plenty of recipes can be found online.

My own (unasked for) two cents? The modest amount of fat in salad dressing isn’t worth the hullabaloo. Enjoy your dressing, enjoy the greens. Puritanical approaches to eating can remove so much pleasure from foods that they become subconscious stressors. “Rest and digest” is an often-overlooked part of good nutrition, and it begins with our pleasurable anticipation of the food we’re about to eat.

 

[Conundrum]

No, I wouldn’t think soup would be nearly acidic enough to work as a dressing.

If I understand the Forks Over Knives approach correctly (which seems to be the rough approach you’re using?), they recommend avoiding oils, not fats. The idea is to eat the highly nutritious, fatty foods those oils came from—e.g., avocados rather than avocado oil, olives rather than olive oil, peanut butter rather than peanut oil. You can still make perfectly good dressings out of fatty foods, with some mashing and mixing. As jacqueg said, plenty of recipes can be found online.

My own (unasked for) two cents? The modest amount of fat in salad dressing isn’t worth the hullabaloo. Enjoy your dressing, enjoy the greens. Puritanical approaches to eating can remove so much pleasure from foods that they become subconscious stressors. “Rest and digest” is an often-overlooked part of good nutrition, and it begins with our pleasurable anticipation of the food we’re about to eat.

Eating does not have to be viewed as a pleasurable activity anymore than brushing your teeth, combing your hair, getting dressed, doing laundry, vacuuming or putting gas in your van.

These -including eating- are all things we are FORCED to do.

You are not forced to play golf and this is why it’s in the “pleasure” category.

What happens when you begin to look at food technically -hmm the people that eat a lot of this die from cancer- is that you re-categorize eating from being a hobby to being a practical necessity.

Once you stop thinking about eating as a pleasure, but instead as something you have to control and manage to be healthy and fit, you never return to the old way of thinking of food as a pleasure.

It just has to be edible enough that you can eat it, and so far I find it impossible to eat a Romaine salad without oil.

 

[Conundrum]

No, I wouldn’t think soup would be nearly acidic enough to work as a dressing.

If I understand the Forks Over Knives approach correctly (which seems to be the rough approach you’re using?), they recommend avoiding oils, not fats. The idea is to eat the highly nutritious, fatty foods those oils came from—e.g., avocados rather than avocado oil, olives rather than olive oil, peanut butter rather than peanut oil. You can still make perfectly good dressings out of fatty foods, with some mashing and mixing. As jacqueg said, plenty of recipes can be found online.

My own (unasked for) two cents? The modest amount of fat in salad dressing isn’t worth the hullabaloo. Enjoy your dressing, enjoy the greens. Puritanical approaches to eating can remove so much pleasure from foods that they become subconscious stressors. “Rest and digest” is an often-overlooked part of good nutrition, and it begins with our pleasurable anticipation of the food we’re about to eat.

PS

The “Puritanical approach” makes it easier to stick to the rules. For example it’s easier to stick to a rule that says you can’t eat anything on Saturdays, than to a rule that says you can’t eat more than 6oz of food on Saturdays.

This is why fanatical beliefs, sects and so forth do so well. Strict rules, no exceptions, and severe enforcement, are surprisingly effective.

If I were to say “Oh, I’ll just have a bit of oil” this would be the end of it. Next thing I know I’d be frying a piece of fish, sautéing some potatoes, frying onions. There is a universe of temptations and excuses the moment you open the door a crack.

So yes, you need the “Puritanical approach”. This is why the Puritans were so successful for so long.

 

[Frood]

I poured a can of tomatoe soup -one of the better ones sold in glass jars- over a lettuce salad and it was barely edible.

That sounds like a truly horrifying flavor combination...

From reading your posts it sounds like you are trying to make logical data-based decisions... But it also seems like you are overly relying on only one study that was conducted over 30 years ago (based on data collected over decades earlier than that). Our knowledge base has grown significantly since that time and our understanding of biology, genetics, and chemistry, has increased as well. There have also been improvements in basic methodology and data standards. It's an over-repeated saying, but it does not necessarily change the truth of it that "correlation does not equal causation"

There are lots of studies out there, some good and some bad. Many that were considered gold standard have been debunked over time (the link between Inuit/Aleut omega-3 consumption and massively reduced risk of heart disease for one).

You may find the site interesting...
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/
As for a puritanical approach dedication... your premise only works if the approach is sound. One flaw with your system and by being puritanical you may be inadvertently removing a necessary element from your diet. From everything I've seen, moderation is better than absolutes (with the exception of certain definite carcinogens) when it comes to diet.

In the end, though, as long as you are satisfied with the results of your system that's all that matters. Keep educating yourself with accurate and reliable sources of information and refining your diet!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

One must be very careful basing diet requirements on a single study or a small group of studies. Since at least the 1960s nutrition studies have been more about proving 'my diet is better than your diet' than real scientific discovery. That builds in a bias that highlights some data and discards other data.

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The only way to explain why so many people get these diseases here, and nearly nobody does in countries that eat differently, is the food.

The biggest determiner of your predisposition to disease is genetics. If a study does not take that into account the results probably won't be the same as for the population group the study was based on. Ethnic diets developed over millennia to counteract the risk factors for disease in that ethnic group (among a lot of other things).
Stress and environment are other factors that need to be accounted for.

..... It was easy to stop cooking with oil, frying, sautéing, all of that. Where I am stuck is with salads. I have just not been able to find a good replacement so far.

So learn to eat your salad without dressing. I found after I purged 'flavor enhancers' from my diet natural foods have an amazing variety of flavors and textures.