What is your opinion on diesel engines verses gas engines? I know nothing about diesels and am intimidated by them.

[magentawave]

I'm not a mechanic but I know enough about gas engines to know the difference between expensive noises and inexpensive noises when inspecting a vehicle to possibly buy. In my search for the right vehicle I've been ignoring diesels because the pockety-pockety sounds they make are counter to what a well running gas engine should sound like.<br /><br /><strong>Not sure if its all true, but this is what I've heard about diesel engines...</strong><br /><br />-When properly maintained, diesels are supposed to last much longer than equally maintained gas engines.<br />-Diesels are supposed to get better MPG than gas engines.<br />-Diesel MPG isn't reduced when towing a heavy load.<br />-Diesel fuel is less readily available in the US but more available outside the U.S.<br />-Diesels cost substantially more to rebuild than gas engines.<br /><br /><br />Can someone please sell me on the merits of diesel over gas engines and especially with someone like me that knows nothing about them? Or if you're against diesels, then please tell me why?<br /><br />Thanks very much.<br /><br />Steve

 

[Mortisha]

I used to have a car that was diesel and I never did like it cause it smelled to high heck LOL I have no clue if the newer models do any better but after that one car I never tried diesel again.&nbsp;<br /><br />I should make a note that I have an OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) when it comes to smells. I love great smells but omg the bad ones make me sick until I throw up YUCKY!!

 

[peacetara]

I'm with magentawave, and pretty clueless about diesels. &nbsp;I didn't know diesel prices were more expensive now, growing up the gas was cheaper than regular, good to know!<br /><br />I've ridden in a few of those TDI VW cars.. the owners always talk about veggie oil and bio-diesel in them. &nbsp;I would guess used veggie oil would be pretty easy to find and dirt cheap (Every street corner pretty much has a fry stand). &nbsp;Maybe there is a lot more to it, I would think at the very least you'd have to filter out the leftover onion rings and french fry bits.<br /><br />Sorry if I'm stupid, I've never done any of this diesel stuff, and know next to nothing, but if it really is as easy as a simple filter from your favorite Fry stand, seems like a pretty easy, cheap way to go. &nbsp;I've never had a diesel, and have no experience, but if I ever ended up with a diesel I'd definitely research it more.

 

[LunaticFringeInc]

I think diesels are best used in applications where you need high amount of torque and need it at lower RMP's. &nbsp;In a P/U truck (one thats actually used for work and not one driven around in to look cool) where your hauling or towing diesel is way more economical than a gas engine.<br /><br />Yes diesel cost more per a gallon but do the math...you were getting about 10% more milage from them than you were from a gas engine in the same application. &nbsp;Now that they have put alcohol in the gas and oxygenated it your getting even less from a gallon of gas than before unless you go to a more efficient engine. To make a fair comparison...compare a 3/4 ton diesel truck with the same transmission and gearing in the rear end to a equally equipped gas engine producing the same level of HP/Torque and diesel comes up with the big end of the stick. &nbsp;The diesel does this by operating at lower RMP's without sacrificing power or low end grunt using fuel that creates more energy per a gallon, than gas does.<br /><br />Your diesel engine will also burn farm grade diesel in most cases as well and its roughly a dollar cheaper usually. &nbsp;Yes its illegal to do this and the authorities will get very upset with you if you get caught. &nbsp;But if your in a pinch you can use it to get you to the next filling station so you can fill up. If you got "farm Plates" for license plates then its legal for you to use this grade of fuel when on the street. &nbsp;If you have a genset you can use the farm grade diesel as there is no need to put the diesel thats been taxed and designed to meet EPA standards in it. &nbsp;<br /><br />Yes you can often run them on Bio-diesel unfortunately most places now have contracts with salvage companys that have rights to that waste oil and collect it on a regular basis for commercial use. &nbsp;Its unlikely you can just run down to the local Micky D's and get a 55 gallon barrel to convert in your garage. &nbsp;If you can then ride that fat cat for all its worth!!!<br /><br />Older diesel engines used to be about as bullet proof as an engine could get and were pretty simple to repair. &nbsp;With all of the added EPA requirements and minumum milage demands due to regulations diesels engines have become every bit as complicated and expensive to repair as your typical gas engine. &nbsp;The engine itself will likely last 3-4 times longer than a gas engine though before rebuild is required.<br /><br />If you live up north where it gets pretty dang cold fuel gelling can be an issue if you dont have a fuel tank warmer. &nbsp;The engines due to their high compression and no spark plug can sometimes be difficult to start in cold weather without a engine warmer or placing a drop light with a light bulb in it on the block to keep it warm. &nbsp;In the south thats genearlly a none issue.<br /><br />I have driven the Jetta VW TDI and if I was going to buy a new car this would probably be the one. &nbsp;They have decent accelleration despite the diesel engine and those things can run for ever on just gas fumes, due to being such misers on fuel consumption.<br /><br />JMHO...

 

[MrWright]

Were it me ... I would go with diesel:
-30% more efficient which more than offsets fuel cost
-longer intervals between scheduled services
-can idle / cruise all day without issue
-can burn a variety of fuels: bio/kerosene/road diesel/marine diesel/agricultural diesel meaning u can barter for fuel
-they can last upwards of 500k if maintained properly
-diesel is the most readily available fuel outside of America

But there's a downside:
-if not properly maintained, setting as simple as infrequent oil changes can drastically shorten a diesel engine's lifespan
-fuel quality varies so bad diesel in Mexico could leave you stranded
-as a result of above, fuel filter maintenance is important
-expensive to work on but easy once you know what you're doing
-rebuilds are incredibly expensive as are replacements
-if the PO didn't maintain it you're in for the longest nightmare of your life
-they hate cold weather and can be impossible to start in sub-freezing temps as the fuel will actually gel - you need one with a good block heater and a place to plug in if you're spending time in AK or northern Canada or Midwest

My experience is based mostly on marine diesels but it's applicable to road vehicles as well. If I were in the market for a new vehicle, I would go diesel first. Sure they cost more and there's less of them but you'll be happy if you do get one. Good luck in your search.

 

[Lostinspace]

As an update on the diesel versus gas question.&nbsp; Over on RvForum.com I read a discussion that more and more the big suppliers are mixing biodiesel with regular diesel and it's causing problems, just like the alcohol mixed in with gas is.&nbsp; The filtering system needs more maintenance on the diesels that use the new mix.&nbsp; Most of the manufacturers of diesel vehicles have a tolerance level for using bio mix but they don't mention the higher filter maintenance.&nbsp; Of course this doesn't answer the question of the older diesels which we would be interested in mostly on here.&nbsp; Flying J is one that includes a biodiesel mix.&nbsp; And they don't show the mix % either, as per the discussion forum.<br /><br />So while I used to want a diesel on my vehicle I'm starting to rethink that want.&nbsp; Vehicles with a diesel engine even used command a premium in price.<br /><br />Wade

 

[peacetara]

I have a diesel van now (Ford E-350).<br /><br />I've had it a few months and I love it.&nbsp; There is a bit of a smell sometimes, but when I run Bio-Diesel (which I do as often as possible), the smell is pretty nice&nbsp; <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br /><br />My understanding around Bio versus Petroleum diesel (after doing lots of research, and talking with lots of different mechanic types).&nbsp; Bio-Diesel is a natural 'cleaner' i.e. it will clean all the junk out of your fuel tank, and that it why you have to replace the fuel filter more often at the very beginning of your conversion to Bio-Diesel. Sometimes the fuel lines on older diesels are made of a cheap rubber, and the bio-diesel can eat thru the rubber, so sometimes you have to replace the fuel hoses.<br /><br />Otherwise, running Biodiesel is in many ways better for your engine, because of it's natural cleaning properties.<br /><br />I usually run B99 (100% bio-diesel) and I love it.&nbsp; One mechanic shop specializing in used diesels said, Fords are totally fine to run bio, but Chevy and Dodge are not ok for running 100% bio-diesel.&nbsp; I believe this is because they have the hose problem mentioned above (apparently fords don't tend to have this problem).&nbsp; I don't know how true that is, because I only care about Ford, since that's what my van is.<br /><br />I was in Montana recently, and had the temperature as low as 0 degrees F, and never had any problems starting my diesel, I just followed the little light on the dash, when is says "wait to start" I wait.&nbsp; when it goes out, I start the engine, and it starts right up.<br /><br />I easily get 17MPG going 55 or 60mph on the freeway, this includes idling sometimes and everything, not just actual driving.&nbsp; I can get up to 20 MPG sometimes.&nbsp; I don't know why/how I get 20 sometimes, but I don't complain at all <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"><br /><br />I got a "winter service" done in the Seattle area (oil change, and whatever, they also had to service the "rear differential" whatever that was, total price $178. ($98 for the rear differential, $80 for the winterizing).<br /><br />Normal maintenance on Diesels (that I know about):<br />&nbsp; 1) Oil Change (every 5k miles for mine)<br />&nbsp; 2) Tire rotation (every 4,000 miles for mine)<br />&nbsp; 3) Coolant change (whenever some test says time to change, mine within the next year probably).<br />&nbsp; 4) Air Filter (whenever the little thingy says to replace it, should be good for the next 6 months or so)<br />&nbsp; 5) Fuel Filter (whenever it gets dirty, and it takes more floor pushing to make it go go, the filter is apparently dirty and needs replacing).<br /><br />My thinking for why Diesel is good:<br />&nbsp;1) You can run Bio-diesel which is better for the planet, and uses up all that waste oil from McDonalds, GO recycling!.<br />&nbsp;2) You can join the truck stop rewards program(s), and use their showers for free, which tend to be nice showers in my experience so far, otherwise they are $10 or $12 a shower.<br /><br /><br />

 

[hyperslug]

I have an 06 ford F250 diesel that I used to pull my fifth wheel since that time. I full timed&nbsp;with it until this last April when a tornado ate my trailer. If I was towing something as heavy as my 30 ft fifth wheel I would buy a diesdel again, I think chevy currently has the edge. But be aware of all the costs invovled, according to Consumer Reports&nbsp;the F250 diesel has the very highest cost of ownership than any other vehicle&nbsp;of about $7k per year. This includes purchase price and everything. You pay a few thousand dollar more for the diesel engine option and you pay about 3 times more of oil changes. Diesels are just more expensive to work on and parts cost more. Diesel engines are heavy and require more suspension so parts for that will cost you more as will the tires that have to support the extra weight. The one thing that the $7000 per year probably does not take into effect is longevity which becomes important when pulling heavy loads. Most will go through a couple of gas engines before the diesel expires.<br /><br />If I could get by with a little wagon then the VW TDI would be on the top of my list because I drive a lot of miles and no other vehicle can match its fuel mileage.&nbsp; I think the cost of ownership would be cheaper than gas but not sure. Alas I am looking for a mini van to convert to a campervan which makes diesel impossible.