We need to start a movement to legalize the nomadic lifestyle

[RoadStar66]

Let's face it, the only place a nomad can legally park overnight is the very few businesses that give permission and the ever shrinking public land, which is not evenly distributed throughout the country.

Nomadics need to take into account society's concerns regarding nomadism providing a convenient way of living for career criminals to escape detection and apprehension. Since most nomadics have 'no place to call home' in terms of sleeping there the majority of nights of a year, there needs to be some way that these concerns of nomadics being career criminals can be laid to waste. You can call me a *deep state police state fascist* all you want. But this one issue slimes all nomadics. It puts all in question in the mind of the public, no matter how honest and law abiding. And the voting public can take away all of our rights to the few spaces we now have to legally live a nomadic lifestyle. 

A discussion needs to begin on this matter or more legitimate nomadics will end up under freeways and vacant lots facing police enforced eviction ... (to where?).

 

[B and C]

I am afraid this will be another thread the goes down the politics hole.  I won't be participating.

I didn't realize it was illegal to be a nomad.

 

[RoadStar66]

Well, as I state in the post, in most places it is. And the list is shrinking. Another factor I'm afraid is going to hex nomadism is the types of people taking the lifestyle up. It's getting rare to see the kinds of responsible individuals that attend the RTR. A good reason to attend the RTR if nothing else. But as more people watch the blossoming number of boondocking and stealth parking, the less than responsible to outright criminal elements are blackening their windows and taking the alternative of vehicular residency. Their actions affect the public's view of all nomadics. And the media is already cranking up campaigns against what they term "homeless" or "vagrants" and they make little distinction between them and the more responsible and intentional nomadics. This is unfortunate, but it is a fact that can be witnessed, by listening to AM talk radio in LA if by no other means. Or by reading major newspapers and watching TV stations news, which often have 'special reports' on the "homeless problem".

 

[Seminole Wind]

Let's face it, the only place a nomad can legally park overnight is the very few businesses that give permission and the ever shrinking public land, which is not evenly distributed throughout the country.

that statement is off in so many ways.

can you quote me a statute that makes being a nomad illegal? there are not that many jurisdictions that have laws on the books that make sleeping in your car over night illegal, so long as you are legally parked. i personally have never traveled though one that does. 

no law you can get passed will be able to force a private business owner to let you live or even sleep in their parking lot.

there are millions of miles of public road with curbside parking for up to 72 hours. if the parking is not restricted and you are legally parked on a public road AND there are no statutes making sleeping in your car a crime, then you are not breaking the law. of course making a wise choice in where you park will decrease the chance someone will hassle you. ouside the big city there are uncountable numbers of places to stay the night, or even a few. 

to say the only place is in a few parking lots is way off

when lots of van dwellers get concentrated in store parking lots, it easily becomes a problem, an eyesore. 

many of the parking lots that have been shut down, are because groups that represent the RV park industry wants the RV people to spend money to overnight in their parks and dont like walmart and others "stealing their business" these groups go to the local government   and complain that said store is "operating an RV park" with out proper permits and licenses. we cant expect the local government to pick and choose who has to follow the law and who gets to break it.

if we want less regulation from the government, we as a whole group need to stop giving them reasons to do so. i dont see that happening. to many entitled people out there will continue to abuse lax enforcement until the powers that be crack down

there is even a recent (last couple years) move of over turning laws restricting sleeping in your car. some southern california areas that had tried to outright ban sleeping in your car have started providing areas where it is legal.

 

[RoamerRV428]

nomadic lifestyle is not illegal at all so you are out of joint on that one to start

I get ya wanting more private property and city/county/state lands to allow parking overnight or long term for car/van/rv/vehicle type dwellers but it loads into a lot about safety, resources, original zoning laws and more.

I get what you are saying, just you won't win with a movement saying 'accept ALL vehicle dwellers of any kind' on any property situations they want to live their lives as they see fit' just will never go down.

I also don't think nomad is associated with pure criminal activity at all...so...

 

[kaBLOOnie Boonster]

The nomadic/mobile lifestyle is indeed on the way out. How can it be preserved in a democracy where the non-nomads have most of the votes?

Unpopular minorities (like us) can survive in a democracy if the minority is highly organized, politically. There are several prominent examples of this.

But are mobile/nomads willing to get organized? We are not. People are attracted to the romantic escapism of travel, which I sometimes mock as "Sacred Solitude" and "channel surfing with gasoline." People go into this lifestyle thinking they will experience perpetual euphoria, just by looking at some new pretty scenery every day.

Perhaps we should look at it from an evolutionary point of view: nomads are an animal species that is not fit to survive. We should just laugh at them as losers, and say "Good Riddance."

 

[badmotorscooter]

Not being a nomad yet, I'm not sure how illegal the nomad life is or how it is protecting and hiding a large criminal element.

If this forum and the RTR are an accurate representation of the morality and attitude of most nomads, it seems to me that this lifestyle is a much more desirable flavor of society than a normal or mainstream one.

An attempt to "legalize" this lifestyle will most likely mean special licensing and identification fees, more regulations and codes, some ongoing accounting on actual location and travel, ect., ect.

Seems like this would restrict the very freedoms that are the main appeal of the nomadic lifestyle.

 

[lenny flank]

Meh, in four years of urban vandwelling all over the country I have had only one cop encounter, and he was just checking up on me because someone had reported "somebody breaking into a vehicle".

I have found that the vast majority of people who have cop troubles routinely, bring it on themselves.

 

[RoamerRV428]

The nomadic/mobile lifestyle is indeed on the way out. 

It depends on your personal definition of nomad/nomadic lifestyle
I see it ramping up instead of dying out
I must be defining it different and make it suit/truly fit/live it as a lifestyle in my own personal way as I would think all of us would

I guess I don't care what ya call it in the end I think anyone on the road is gonna find what suits them as they need it or require it for their lifestyle/survival out there while wandering, best any of us can do

 

[maki2]

You have made a wide sweeping false assumption about the laws regarding parking regulations. I really dislike it when persons resort to fear mongering to try to make a point most especially when what they are saying is nonsense to begin with.

I am currently living in Seattle, a major metropolitan city and it is not illegal here to sleep or live in your vehicle. While there are some areas that restrict parking between 2:00 to 5:00 am it is not that widespread. There is a restriction in Seattle for the residential neighborhoods that does not allow vehicles wider than 80 inches to be parked there between midnight and 5:00 am. However they are allowed to park in industrial zoned areas during those hours unless there is a sign restricting that. The no wider than 80 inch restriction for residential areas is one based on safety as many of those streets are very narrow and the home owners need the street parking at night which would not leave enough room to safely get around wider vehicles. That is not so much about passenger cars of the residents it is so that ambulances and fire trucks can reach people in case of emergencies. If you do not take the time to understand the foundation of the parking regulations then your ignorance will lead you to wrongly assume it is all about preventing you from doing what you want. The fact is that is not all about you has totally escaped you in your analysis of the regulations.

 

[geogentry]

But it is legal. That revolution was already fought and won.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. 



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[lenny flank]

I am not a believer in the conspiracy theory that Walmart bans overnighting because "Big RV !" doesn't want to lose profits.

Whenever Walmart (or some city government) bans overnighting, they are always excruciatingly clear about why they are doing it, and they always cite the same things: (1) people who park there forever without moving, (2) people who dump their shit (literally) in the parking lot, and (3) people who panhandle everyone in the vicinity.

Anyone who has regularly overnighted at Walmarts can confirm for themselves that these are all routine and regular problems at Walmarts all across the US. It is utterly no surprise to me at all whatsoever that Walmart takes steps to prevent it by kicking everyone out on their ass.

As for whose fault it is, well, that's pretty easy: it is the fault of the people who do one or all of those things. Yes, that is just a small percentage of dwellers. But alas, we ALL get caught in it anyway and end up paying the price too. Just because a small number of us can't stop being shitheads.

C'est la vie.  (shrug)

 

[user 423]

It's a big country. Get out of the cities.  In most other areas, you're fine unless you act like a fool.

On a side note, I've stayed at a WM in Cheyenne for the past week where there are big "No overnighting" signs all over the lot.

And there are many other RVs and vans every night. It's all dependent on location. WM's nearer big cities will have more problems with long-timers who trash the place.

Hit the road jack and have a good time...

 

[cyndi]

I suggest the OP join or at least follow escapees. The Escapees follow the trends and are active in protecting full timers rights

 

[jeanmarie]

I have no idea what a"deep state police state fascist" is. None at all. What are you actually talking about? Fulltime RV/van dwellers or nomad? They are not necessarily the same. Which one are you?

 

[WalkaboutTed]

Unfortunately, with the increased housing prices, un/underemployment, inflation and a whole host of other causative factors, "vehicular homelessness" will become more and more prevalent, especially with the younger people who can't break into the housing market and the older folk who are being pushed out of it.

Those of us who are able to live out of the city (as I look over a meadow, camping free at 10,000') will always be able to find a place, as long as we can keep our vehicles in adequate repair and afford the gas.

The souls who are forced to live in the cities will have to stealth it or constantly be told "move along". Eventually, though, the numbers of the vehicular homeless will become great enough that cities will have to deal with it as are some of the cities on the West coast are doing now, with dedicated parking lots.

The city of Boise is appealing the Ninth Circuit 's ruling that municipalities cannot criminalize activities of daily living like sleeping, camping, etc. If the Supreme Court invalidates that ruling, the homeless in this country are in for a rough ride.

But, something will have to be done about the elderly and children. They cannot be written off wholesale as drug-addicted and mentally ill as the anti-homeless contingent maintains that all of us are. And much as the prison-industrial complex wants to make money on jailing the homeless, jailing Grandma who lives in her van ain't gonna fly. Paying for foster care for all of the kids while jailing their parents who live in a van ain't gonna fly either.

Nimbyism, paying for the disaster caused by the 1% getting their way, coping with the social fallout, it's all gonna cost a pile of money. But given the dog eat dog, cruelty and bullying inherent in the American econmy, nothing will be fixed anytime soon. As some point, however, those voting with their wallets may decide that the American Way is broken.

Yes, we are living in interesting times.
Ted

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

I am not a believer in the conspiracy theory that Walmart bans overnighting because "Big RV !" doesn't want to lose profits.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]no "conspiracy theory" [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]i have taken the time to read the signs in the lots that warn of no overnighting. they almost always ( the ones i have seen) quote a couny, city or state statute. i then look up those statutes and with out fail on the ones i come across are always pertaining to it being illegal to operate as an RV park with out proper permits, sanitary facilities and so forth. i am sure there are many, maybe more so in big cities where i dont go, that the store/management has made a choice to not allow overnight parking/camping. i just have not come across that in the dozen or so spots i have come across that had a restriction. [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]for example, the city of grants pass in south west oregon has such regulations. they tend to only enforce it when there are lots of rv's in a parking lot. but i have been in the lot when cops came in and gave verbal warnings as they drove through the parking lot at 2am stating it was ilegal to camp in the parking lot and they would be back in 20 min to start writing citations. [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]the city of grand junction colorado had legislation in place to prevent overnighting in parking lots when i passed through the area frequently around 2004-2005[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]i have been personally asked to leave the walmart in Coos Bay oregon around midnight as a walmart employee made the rounds knocking on windows and making everyone leave. i asked him what the problem was, that i though walmart corporate encourged travelers to sleep over. he stated he wished they could but the city had started forcing them to run off campers.[/font]

 

[jeanmarie]

Kenny, Ted, that's why I asked the op what he was talkibg about. Fulltimers are one thing, nomads are another. People can be both, but they don't have to be. A fulltimers who wants to stay in one place is not a nomad. A nomad can travel and still have a home base. The issuesboth may have are not the same.

 

[jeanmarie]

Per above, that's why I asked for clarification. You can be a fulltimer without being a nomad and you can be a nomad without being a fulltimer. Or you can be both. The challenges are going to be different.

 

[lenny flank]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] he stated he wished they could but the city had started forcing them to run off campers.[/font]

And he was entirely correct--many cities have passed such laws. But as noted, they are always excruciatingly clear about WHY they do it--and it's not "Big RV Profits!!!"  It's the same things that have ALWAYS been problems: people who park and never leave, people who dump their shit and make a mess, and people who panhandle everyone in sight.