Vitrifrigo conundrum

[akrvbob]

Yes, that's the Whytner Dual-Zone. Oddly enough, you can buy it at Home Depot from their on-line site and have it delivered to a local store for free. It may be cheaper; I bought my Whytner from them because they were cheaper than Amazon. Also, if you have a problem with it in the first 90 days you can return it to the store instead of mail.

Two other bloggers I know (Glenn of "to Simplify" blog http://www.tosimplify.net/ and Wayne http://waynewirs.com/ ) have the dual zone and have been pleased with it so far.

Bob

 

[Willy]

One option, with a chest style cooler (top opening), is to mount it on a slide out bracket. I did this with my Waeco a few years ago when I had a smaller camper. Made a locking tab to secure the slide and, here's the kicker, I ended up with MORE space and added an extra shelf to store stuff above it. ..Willy.

 

[Lafnbug]

Bob, how quiet are these units? I definitely want some peace and quiet!

Willy, that is a good idea. Now I gotta go rearrange my floorplan (again)! You got my brain working overtime now!

That may make it difficult to vent the compressor heat out of the van though. Perhaps I can build a flip-down door in front of it, so it can slide into it's own ventilated and insulated home. Sounds complex. I will stew on it for a bit....

 

[Willy]

I didn't bother venting it outside, having the vents facing inward. really, the amount of heat coming off of it is rather small. As for the floorplan.. if you've already factored in a fridge enclosure, then the cooler/slide should take up near nuff the same space, though not as tall. I was using the 'hole' left from where the 3 way fridge was, which was wayyyy more than the Waeco needed. ..Willy.

 

[SternWake]

I have never used a chest style fridge.
How long does it take to access the food within?

Does it require a lot of rearranging?

With my front loader, when I am preparing a meal, I am opening and closing the door a bunch, but only part way open and shutting it as quick as I can. I always wondered if it was more efficient to open and close the door a bunch, or just remove all the food needed for the duration of preparation and allowing it to warm up during. In the end I just go with convenience, and with more battery power than I require and more solar than I usually need, just not worry about it.

Getting something from the back of it can be annoying sometimes as I have a pullout shelf cutting board above the fridge, and If I have a bunch of food or other things on it I got to move them to get into the back from my 3rd chair, from which I do pretty much everything inside the Van. I can contort myself to get under the pull out shelf and get in the back, but I don't contort as well as I once did and it can induce a cursing fit.

If I had to slide out a chest style cooler, I imagine in my setup, it would be more of a hassle.

What I dig most about my front loader is when I've got my feet up on the bed, the third chair reclined, the TV facing me, the laptop on my lap, and I have a hankering for another beer, as long as they are not buried in the back of the fridge, it is a one handed operation I can do with my eyes closed.

Lafnbug, the cooling unit heat generated is not so much that you would really notice it, unless it was blowing right on you.

I intentionally recycle mine back into the Van in wintertime, but I doubt any internal temp increases would be measurable from that heat source. When recycled into the van, basically the advantage is not creating a bit of a low pressure so that cool air from outside needs to force its way in through the conversion van window vents or my very imperfect door seals to even out the atmospheric pressure. When I have everything shut tight in winter, and the fridge is venting air to the exterior of my van, then I can feel cold air start seeping in to replace what the fridge fan forced out.

Very similar to when I have the fridge vented to the exterior and the only other open window is next to my head, the compressor kicking on increases the amount of air coming in near my head. Often as i have other fans on and cannot hear the compressor kick on, I know when the compressor kicks on just by this slightly increased airflow. The effect is minimal, but it gives me the warm and fuzzies, or the cool and ticklyies if you will.

Anyway my point is consider actually using the fridge and preparing food from it, and how it might fit into your floor plan. Little details not foreseen might be very annoying when the time comes to live from it.

 

[Lafnbug]

Agreed. I'm having a blast considering all the different layouts, but at the same time the final product is a big commitment. I'm leaning, for now at least, towards having the bed run lengthwise in the van. I would love to have the 3rd chair option, but I'm trying to come up with a bed arrangement that will double as a couch, or at least a chair, that I can use comfortably when using the countertop across The Aisle. Not sure about any of it yet. I think 3 dimensionally and have a lucid mind's eye, but there's alot going on in this little space! I am trying to plan for economy of motion, short wire runs, ventilation, ample storage, sink/no sink, blah blah. I can BARELY fit across the van width wise, in the rear bed configuration, but I'm worried that it won't be comfortable long term. If I make the bed wider I can lay diagonally to increase my stretch-out ability, but lose floor space to excessive bed area. The jury is still deliberating. Once I nail the bed down, the rest should fall into place.

The other thing I'm considering is the weight balance of the van. That shouldn't be too hard, but still...

1. Wire runs
2. Ventilation
3. Power wall location
4. Battery amount/type/location
5. Bed location/dimensions
6. Fridge size/configuration/location
7. Insulation (I think I have come to terms here)
8. Permanently mounted stove? I am thinking about a range hood in my ventilation system...
9. Sink/water/potable/gray water/12v powered or gravity fed?
10. Lightweight build
11. Weight balance
12. Solar panel orientation (cables at front or rear of van?) Will depend on #3/4.
13. Lighting amount and placement
14. Ciggy and 120v receptacle placement
15. Closet/storage (will probably inhabit wherever they fit)
16. Tool/laptop/shaver/misc charging station
17. I HATE TELEVISION, but may incorporate one in spite of myself...
18. Level of finish. I am a contractor by trade, but have been an auto mechanic, restauranteur, and machinist in past lives. I like nice stuff, and am meticulous, at least for my customers. I guess time constraints will determine this one.
19. I have a nice NOS car stereo lying around, that will probably go in there somewhere, which means speaker placement. Sigh.
20. MUFFIN FAN PLACEMENT!

So, the clean slate is a blessing and a curse. I can't wait to figure it out!

 

[SternWake]

I often think I'd like someone to allow me a blank Slate and a large budget to build up a campervan. I am a finish carpenter by trade, meticulous and detail oriented, but this can also mean time consuming.

Sometimes one must just say GEFWIF, good enough for what it's for.

The Bed is Key. Cant function properly when one does not sleep well. I used to worry about being able to sit on the bed. Then I realized i almost never did. My 3rd chair gets so much use it is ridiculous. I actually need to get to a junk yard and find another, as mine is just stuffed with foam from my old conversion Van Sofa which I replaced in a futile attempt to get it to be comfortable.

When i did my last gutting in '07 and rebuilt the interior, i was going for a fiarly high level of interior trim. Didn;t care much about exterior, I almost wanted it to look like a poor mans van as I was planning on lots of Time in Baja, but I wanted the interior to be somewhat nice and comfortable to hang out in.

At one point I realized I was going way overboard and would never finish and get to Baja,

and then it became about function only, and that was a relief. I've done a few finish details since, but some others I originally planned are still not even contemplated, 7 years later.

One of the best things i did was get the house batteries out from the interior of the Van. I put them under the floor behind the drivers seat, accessible via a hatch from above. Even in this location, 11 feet of cable is required from alternator to house battery switch.

Even with the access hatch, I was bad at watering these in time and it shortened their life.
I realized too I did not need so much battery capacity so I went from 2 group 27 batteries at 115 A/H each to one single group 31. With an AGm starting battery. Shortly after going this route I put the single group 27 AGM in the floor hatch and the flooded 31 in my engine compartment so I can water it easily and check Specific gravity levels to see how effective, or not, my charging regimen is.

My switches allow me to choose either as a house or starting battery easily.

When i look back of photos of my electrical wall over the last 10 years what i am struck by is how simple it was in the beginning. Moving wires required splicing more onto the ends to reach new locations, so in this regard I'd recommend leaving a bit of slack rather than trying for an ultimately clean organized appearance which fights any modification at a later date.

So if time becomes a factor on completion, and it is more work than envisioned in the planning stages, as most carpentry is, leave room to do things later, on the road, and it helps to have something to work on with all the free time you can find yourself with once you begin this lifestyle

 

[Lafnbug]

Did you fiberglass around your rear wheel wells? For insulation?

 

[SternWake]

No, I did adhere some thin outdoor rug, and they are now within some square storage boxes which double as the Bed supports.

I can fairly easily remove the bed and platform , storage boxes and still load sheets of Plywood inside.

But it is easier to throw them over my solar panels on the roof

 

[Lafnbug]

The floor plan you have is basically where I started, with the exception of a sink near where The Third Chair resides. Since then, I moved the sink (if it will remain) in the spot over your batteries, presumably where your Power Wall is. Then I turned the bed along the driver's side, going 30" wide, leaving the center aisle open for plywood/drywall/whatever and the entire passenger side is open for any storage, tools, counter top, or tall closet space if I want. I figure it would be easier to modify one side of the van (passenger side) later if all the electrical and plumbing are crammed behind the driver's seat.

All of this is on paper for now, as I'm still working out of the van daily. My employment situation will be changing one way or the other in the near future, enabling me to gut the van and start tinkering. Pins and needles.

I love the mix of woods, particularly the dark grainy variety for the bed area. Is that stained oak? What about the tall thin closet door? Very cool.

How often have you needed the air compressor? I guess it only takes once to be justified!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[SternWake]

I've got too much weight on the driver's side.

The Compressor, A Chinese Viair clone, is a Q industries Mv-50, modified to accept standard 1/4 inch NPT fittings, and is mostly for my Firestone ride rite air bag helper springs. I like Airing down my tires on washboard roads to about 32 psi and pump them back up for the asphalt. I normally keep them at 46 to 48psi. Sidewall max is 50 for a load range C 30x9.5x15.

I usually put 10 PSI more in the driver's side airbag to counteract the extra weight on that side, and only 15 and 25 Psi is needed to keep the van level front to back and side to side. 100 PSi raises the rear end over 4 inches and makes it ride harsh. But it turns very flat with more than 50psi in them. Rear passengers would find the ride less pleasant than just leaf springs. I never have rear passengers.

I also put stiffer coil springs up front. The Van handles very well for a big heavy lump. KYB gas a just shocks are a big part of that.

The wood for the bed platform is just 3/4 inch plywood, Pine or Fir, but knot free on one side, stained with minwax walnut and a couple coats of clear gloss Poly urinestain.

The front cabinets are some "blonde wood" veneer which Lowes was selling in '07 with poly on it. I was intrigued by the grain when in the store. They are trimmed with red oak, stained with walnut and covered with the same Poly. The same 1/2 inch plywood is used for the sliding underbed storage boxes. I can slide them in or out when lying in bed. They are just resting on the fake wood laminate snap together floor with stick on felt padding in between, which is just on top of some vapor barrier right on the sheet metal. No subfloor. I was unwilling to lose 1/2 inch of headroom.

To keep the boxes from sliding forward when braking I have a 15 inch long white oak wedg tapering from about 3/4 inches to 0 than when inserted locks the boxes against the wheel well storage boxes. These wedges make nice back scratchers too.

The edge of the plywood bed platform is re enforced with angle iron. The hatch of the wheel well box over the passenger side is the same distance as the span between the boxes. I use one of the pieces to extend my bed further from the back wall, which helps greatly when I have company. This piece is also reenforced with Angle iron. so much for the weight savings, but I can sit on it un re enforced from below without worry.

The Wheel well boxes are recessed a bit next to the windows. I like to sleep on my stomach and this allows my toes to dangle off the end of the bed, and works nicely as storage too. I am a little over 5'10".

I also put a second piano hinge on the bed platform so i can lift either end independently or together for easy access below

I kept the narrow Closet shorter as I keep Surfboards inside strapped to the ceiling. Big ones well over 9 feet long, and one in the mid 6 foot range. They live there. Make pretty good shelves too, for lighterweight stuff which does not matter if they get a little surfboard wax on them.

Here is my 7 gallon reliance water tank. You can see the Schrader valves for filling my Airbags. The diagonal bungees are nice to hold things against the side of the closet. you can see an Oak wedge for locking the sliding storage boxes.

I just use a 12v on off jabsco electric pump to move the water to my sink, which is behind the drivers seat. I only use it for filtered drinking water, almost never for washing, and the sink is more used for storage than as a sink, but fully functional. This pump is not self priming where I have it located( behind the fridge on the floor) I use the Compressor to pressurize my water tank to prime the water pump.

The wood around my Windows is White Oak, stained with red mahoganyor walnut, cant remember. They are actually functional and pull the conversion van windows tight to the body. Look much better than the original aluminum trim ring. The Stainless screws were a necessary Evil. The Wood along the upper frame rails is cedar. There is some oak up there too.

A bit more Oak, for the door handles:

Overall I am pretty comfy inside hanging out with my surfboards. Always room for improvements in both function and looks but for now it works.

 

[highdesertranger]

nice stern. on your wood is that stained and clear coated or just something like clear epoxy? it looks really good. also where is that pic with you parked on the bluff above the beach? Baja? sorry for the highjack op. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

That wood is just stained, and then covered with Minwax clear gloss fast dry polyurethane. I used to think this was a good product until I tried Zar polyurethane.

That is Baja. I used to go park there with 300 dollars, spend 6 + weeks and return with 100$.

Too bad the area got infiltrated with meth heads. Been 6+ years since I've returned

 

[Lafnbug]

highdesertranger, no apologies necessary. I hijack my own threads!

 

[Willy]

The chest style refrigerators, especially the dual zone ones, are really simple to organize. They also have a MUCH larger freezer section which, to me, is of utmost importance. They ones in the upright fridges are generally pretty small and I like to buy family packs of meat/veggies with enough frozen to last at least a week or 2.

I had an upright Waeco fridge and, while a pretty nice unit, found that having it severely limited how much frozen food I could have. Also, with an upright, no matter how quickly you open/close the door, cold air is displaced and pouring out, unlike with the chest style. The door, with its' trays 'n such, acts as a plunger and displaces air within the fridge. This then has to be cooled down again. I also travel in some rough country and have a spotty memory.. forget to close the door properly and trouble could very well ensue. With the chest style this isn't a problem.

Another thing I like about the chest style is that it gives me flexibility re. where I wanna put it. Hell, could even just slide it under the bed. Right now I have it in the cab of my F-250 and, in the winter when there ain't as much solar, nature does the work for me and next to no power is needed to run the fridge. ..Willy.

 

[Lafnbug]

Good info Willy, thank you. Can the single compartment chest style boxes be set to freeze near the bottom, but not at the top? Just curious; I don't think I would rely on that even if it could.

I'm starting to think a dual zone chest would definitely be 'skookum'! It fudges up my floorplan a bit, as it won't fit in my designated area, but I think the benefits may be worth it. Besides, it's only on paper now! I will play with this for a while and see what I come up with. Between you and SternWake, my plans are all up-ended! At least I'm getting some practice in drawing again! Thanks guys! =:^)

 

[akrvbob]

Noise hasn't been an issue with either my Dometic or Whytner fridges. I'm aware when they are on but never been bothered by it in any way.

I think the chest is a PAIN in the butt and that's just the way it is. It's one of the few things I'm anal about and the theoretical inefficiency of a front-loader (even if it's not true) would nag at me and I'd never be happy with one.
Bob

 

[highdesertranger]

lafnbug I don't think on the single boxes you can use it as a freezer and a refer at the same time. you can have it in refer mode and put frozen items in and they will stay frozen for days or weeks. even if the ambient temp is in the 90's, on my engel's anyway. they also use very little energy this way. the chest style is a pain because you have to dig around to find items, but they are so dam efficient I will not change. what I do when it comes time to cook is to have a plan, open the refer and pull everything that I need out at once, then close the lid. then I get what I need, eggs, bacon, butter. then put back the unused portion before they get to warm. works good, but sometimes you still have to dig. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

Back when I was shopping for my first fridge in '07, The chest style ones didn't even cross my radar. I had done the block ice and cooler thing for so long, I don't know that even if I were aware of them, if I would have gone that route.

There was a couple one time who was asking me about my 12v fridge and how long it could last on a battery, and then asked to rent it! For a week! I thought they were nutz and let them know it.

I dont think it would have been as easy to turn them down with a portable chest style fridge.

When my Norcold failed and I went back to a cooler for a few weeks, I stored it where my fridge went. It was pretty easy to slide out, and get things from it, but the lid was completely removable.

I was a bit surprised with the internal temps in the cooler taken with my IR gun. I had a small wastebasket on the side to keep items from floating around in cooler water and a method to keep ithe basket from floating, yet even when surrounded by ice water and next to a block of ice, Food inside the basket was sometimes in the mid 50's.

I think I spent 40$ in block ice those 3 weeks, as it was not a very good cooler.

What A relief it was when the Fedex truck delivered the Vitrifrigo.

 

[Willy]

The Waeco CF-50 I have will keep stuff in the smaller 'just cool' section above freezing, while the freezer section is at around -3C. My Engle requires a bit more planning but, at around -2 C, stuff on top can be kept liquid.. but just barely. ..Willy.