VIKINGS!

[Ballenxj]

We started having a great conversation about Vikings in the no refrigeration thread and got a bit carried away before we realized we were hijacking that thread.  
So, can we continue here?

 

[gargoyle]

Only if we can see Dune Elliot's trailer?

 

[AbuelaLoca]

My interest in Vikings comes from genealogy and DNA... several family members have had their dna tested and we have "Scandinavian" blood... here's an interesting article on the DNA and a snip of some history:

"There is a strong desire in all of us to find simple explanations, simple histories. But it is good to remember that the peopling of Europe is a complicated web of historical events, migrations and stories along many different timelines. The migration of Norse Vikings to Britain and their control of the Danelaw is one such event. But there are others. For example, from the 5th century there was also the Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain. The Anglo-Saxon migration is relevant because some of the Germanic tribes involved in that migration (such as the Jutes and Angles) have their origins in what we refer to today as Denmark, a part of Scandinavia."

https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/06/23/ancestrydna-the-viking-in-the-room/

 

[Gary68]

the vikings didnt really migrate,they conquered

the rosie cheek red haired irishmen of today are really descendants of the vikings who conquered gaelic ireland

i have viking from when they invaded britain(seems the scots and viking got along) and then some norman(vikings via france) from around 1100 ad,once again the scots and normans got along  

my surname originates there john(the first to take a christian name) de(french norman) tun/toun (gaelic/old english for settlement/land)
so his name was john and his son was gilbert de john's tun or as we say it now johnston/johnstone

http://www.johnston.org.nz/historystd.htm[/url

my ancestors include Bethoc Bane(princes of scotland),Judith de Lens(niece of William the conqueror),Robert de Bruce and William Wallace(he was raised amongst my clan then my u.s. civil war era ancestor married the decedent of his aunt

the dark eyed brown haired members of my family are pretty mellow,the light eyed blonde/red haired ones are crazy(viking blood)

good luck trying to get me to bow,obey or do what you tell me to do

 

[DuneElliot]

Only if you get rid of the Viking with the horned helmet...Viking helmets didn't have horns, that was the artistic imagination of Carl Emil Doepler who horned helmets for the first Bayreuth Festival production of Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I don't know much about vikings but I think they'd appreciate your decor and enjoy staying with you, if one were to come from the past and into the future

 

[Gary68]

a chic that keeps a short sword on the side of her desk,now thats awesome

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I read that the Native Americans were never able to be conquered by the vikings and wasn't from a lack of trying. They'd come down from Greenland and get wiped out every time they tried for some 500 years. There was a plague here similar to Europe that wiped out the majority of the natives and that's the only reason the English and French were ever able to get a foothold in America

True or not? I have no idea. Sounds good though.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The great naval historian, Samuel Elliot Morrison, suggests that the norse who made it as far as L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland weren't vikings, they were just norse farmer/fishermen.  By the time they made it here, the great viking age was long over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings#End_of_the_Viking_Age

 

[DuneElliot]

Leif Erikson and his crew/ships were the ones recorded to have made it to Newfoundland. They built settlements and a forge, built walls and homes in order to start a life. The word Viking is a misnomer...it is actually an adjective...."to go Viking". Most vikings were farmers also...it wasn't all blood and guts and raping and pillaging....that was a seasonal thing, and even then it wasn't as crazy and wild as some would have you believe. 

They conquered places and moved in in much of a similar manner to any other conquering army. The city of York in england has a long, rich and interesting history with the vikings...and the city wouldn't have been half so successful without them. They were traders and merchants and skilled craftsmen as well as farmers and fishermen and warriors.


Edited to remove unecessary quoting

 

[DuneElliot]

I read that the Native Americans were never able to be conquered by the vikings and wasn't from a lack of trying.True or not?  I have no idea.  Sounds good though.

It is believe the Danes were only in Newfoundland for 30 years or so and there is little to suggest they had many, if any, dealings with the natives.

 

[Ballenxj]

 Most vikings were farmers also...it wasn't all blood and guts and raping and pillaging....that was a seasonal thing, and even then it wasn't as crazy and wild as some would have you believe.

Blood and Guts sells, farming, not so much. This train of thought influenced most movies or TV shows.

 

[Gary68]

they were selling irish slaves in the middle east so...
http://www.historyireland.com/medie...slave-trade-entrepreneurs-or-heathen-slavers/


and the north american indians are not 6 inches taller than the people to the north and south of them by accident,something went on

 

[IanC]

Blood and Guts sells, farming, not so much.

If they hadn't been out conquering and pillaging they would have never had the legendary status that they do. They would have been just one more agrarian tribe and probably would have faded into history until modern archeologists discovered remains of their settlements.  All the legendary men of history were known for their fighting and conquering ability, from Alexander the great to Genghis Khan to the Spartans, Roman emperors and on down the line.  I doubt historians could name (by name) any legendary farmers.  We are a world that was built on warfare (unfortunately) and not peaceful co-existence and it will probably be that way until humans are no longer around.

Gary68 "and the north american indians are not 6 inches taller than the people to the north and south of them by accident,something went on"

I met a woman from Norway on the train to New York once. She was in the states accompanying a 1/2 scale model of a Viking ship and exhibit on a museum tour. I brought that exact topic up. I'm half Dane and half Scot and wondered if my height was somehow related to Viking blood. According to her, the Vikings were short, red headed men and not the tall, blond Danes of today. I was disappointed.

 

[Ballenxj]

IanC
If they hadn't been out conquering and pillaging they would have never had the legendary status that they do.

Don't get me wrong, Vikings were most definitely Bad Ass! I'm not sure about that lady's comment on height though. Most Norse that I have known are usually tall, myself and brothers included. My best friend is Danish/Irish, and he's pretty darned big as well. Definitely Blonde hair running in the family as well. The Viking descendants are a mixed bag I think. A friend that studies where people came from theorized that some North American Indians may also have Norse Blood.
Food for thought, Vikings had sweat lodges, and some North American tribes had similar structures. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. Lets compare basic design of a long boat to a canoe, albeit scaled down. Another coincidence? Again, maybe. There are probably more people with Norse Blood than a lot of us realize. Same thing goes for Europe. The Vikings may have had more influence on modern society than people realize.

 

[IanC]

The discussion got me checking out a few docs on Youtube. This one is interesting and well filmed

 

[Ballenxj]

Yes it is both interesting, and well filmed. Also the reason I was gone for just over forty minutes.

 

[LeeRevell]

There actually is plenty of evidence for horned helmets among the Vikings, from burial relics and artistic depictions dating from that time. Might have been for ceremonial use only. The whole "no horns on helmets" thing is another example of modern opinion taken as fact.
One important reason for the Viking cruises was their limited land and ever increasing number of young princes with their retinues. They needed to expand. Thus, their trips to the New World.
They weren't the first Europeans to come here, this land being known by far ranging fishermen since antiquity. When Chris Columbus sailed here, the Portugese fishermen provided him a map already dating from centuries before. His only mistake was believing the New World was Asia.

 

[DuneElliot]

I met a woman from Norway on the train to New York once.  She was in the states accompanying a 1/2 scale model of a Viking ship and exhibit on a museum tour.  I brought that exact topic up.  I'm half Dane and half Scot and wondered if my height was somehow related to Viking blood.  According to her, the Vikings were short, red headed men and not the tall, blond Danes of today. I was disappointed.

This was documented by skeletal remains also. 

Some links to the myth of horned helmets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_helmet
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/29/11526568/vikings-horned-helmets

It is possible they occasionally wore them for ceremonial purposes but never for warfare. The only surviving helmet to be un-earthed did not have horns, and in my searching all art from the Viking period does not have them wearing horned helmets:

 

[DuneElliot]

There actually is plenty of evidence for horned helmets among the Vikings, from burial relics and artistic depictions dating from that time.  Might have been for ceremonial use only.  The whole "no horns on helmets" thing is another example of modern opinion taken as fact.

One important reason for the Viking cruises was their limited land and ever increasing number of young princes with their retinues.  They needed to expand.  Thus, their trips to the New World.  

They weren't the first Europeans to come here, this land being known by far ranging fishermen since antiquity.  When Chris Columbus sailed here, the Portugese fishermen provided him a map already dating from centuries before.  His only mistake was believing the New World was Asia.

Please provide links to these claims. I agree with the middle paragraph, except for the fact that the Danes/Norsemen didn't have kings and princes.