Vandwelling is cool, but stealthing = homeless?

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This thread raises the question of whether there is anything immoral or unethical about being homeless.
 
I have an office in Phoenix, the rent is $250.00 a month. Electricity and WIFI included. The owner spent a good deal of money fixing it up and it attracted many young urban men that live in the units in violation of code. Some units have charcoal grills outside the door. The toilets are purposely over stuffed with paper which will clog them and the sinks no longer work.

I have found if people dont have a personal or financial stake in things, there can be a temptation to abuse. Chronically homeless have mental illnesses and chemical deficiencies. They sleep in our parks and trash them.

Bob Wells uses the term houseless which might be a bit more genteel way of saying homeless for those that have choices and common decency.

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perry said:
This thread raises the question of whether there is anything immoral or unethical about being homeless.
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 Unethical... not moraly correct,  immoral ... not conforming to standard of morality.  I guess that begs the question who’s standards of morality are we not conforming to, how far is anybody from being homeless a couple of weeks, a couple of months.
 
If you are on this forum choosing this lifestyle as an alternative to living under a bridge, you are not the problem. Unfortunately, the general public only sees us all as a bunch of losers who have no responsibility, and trying to live outside of the law by stealthing.

I don't give one whit as to what most people think, or say, but I also won't provoke these same people by flaunting my rebellion in their faces (or neighborhoods)
 
I live in a box, often park under a bridge next to the bay in view of the ocean. Eat fresh fish, have a pet pelican named George that I share today's catch with (before cooking) and get to read about folks that are all backed up about silly stuff like life and living choices. Well, got to go, I'm making hush puppies to go with lunch.
 
Say hello to George for me! Have him say hello if he migrates through the Lake Powell area. Had a Roseta Spoonbill come through a few years ago! You have to figure out how to make yourself happy before you start worring about what other people think in my opinion.
 
Is it a Maytag refrigerator box? Those are top of the line to be envied by homeless of every description.

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Had a soldier sneak a hooker on base in one of those once! Might be considered morally wrong but made him happy!
 
People who think the nomadic lifestyle is for homeless people have no idea what their talking about. Homeless people ride around in buses, sleep in parking lots and are usually mentally ill. Van dwellers are people who can still function in society and their home is their van.

Always thought most stealth camping was done as a last resort when no other camping spot could be found. I also wonder why people refer to overnighting in a Walmart parking lot as stealth camping. If you have Walmart's permission then it's not stealth.
 
there are tons of folks that stealth all the time, some are just stuck with nothing but their rig. others are trying to live rent free while they work a nine to five job to save money

there are plenty of walmarts that dont permit overnight parking camping
 
I always think back to 1970 and the "Whole Earth Catalog" photograph of an older skinny, filthy, bearded with long haired man eating ice cream out of a discarded carton he apparently found in a garbage can at a rest stop smiling and supposedly saying to the viewer "Stay hungry and stay free!". Some how the truth of his conviction lives on today.
 
It's that "stealthing" is concealing your presence for a reason. Your presence at a particular time is either illegal or in violation of the property owner's regulations. To many that makes you an outlaw. There is also the image of those who creep around in the dark of night in a vehicle with darkened windows as a thief, abductor, peeping tom etc. In any case, contact with law enforcement is a given on a regular basis. I know there are those who have developed systems which allow them to elude that contact. But law enforcement is rapidly coming up to speed to recognize stealthing sleepers. They know the tricks - commercial signs on the door, construction equipment and ladder racks on the roof etc. It's time for recognition of the large numbers of vehicle dwellers of every economic status and to provide for their legal and safe overnight accommodation. And those who can well afford to pay should be required to contribute their fair share.
 
I've deleted a couple of recent posts. The subject of this thread is *Vandwelling is cool, but stealthing = homeless?*
 
AreWeLostYet said:
It's that "stealthing" is concealing your presence for a reason. Your presence at a particular time is either illegal or in violation of the property owner's regulations. To many that makes you an outlaw.....


.....And those who can well afford to pay should be required to contribute their fair share.
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well since you put it that way, if you are stealthing to be able to park illegally or violate the property owners regulations. then you ARE breaking the law, and as such quite accurately an outlaw. the continued use of "stealthing" to violate laws, ordinances and regulations is exactly what gives all "stealthing" the outlaw stigmatization. if stealthing was just used to not draw attention to ones legal activities that may be unusual or out of the ordinary, then there would not have been such a negative association with the practice.

that is why i dont "stealth" my rig and i stay away from situations where i "need" to stealth.  i still do what i can to not draw attention to many things that i do. like many of my sweet sleeping spots that have yet to be posted "no overnight parking" where i get to park next to the ocean and let the sound of the waves crashing on the shore lull me to sleep. in order to not draw attention i pull in well after dark, when i am done for the day and then go to bed. maybe do a little reading with a small reading light or check some email or internet on my phone. then when i wake in the morning i head to another spot for a beautiful walk on the beach, make some breakfast and get on with my day. that might be enjoying another section of beach or a drive into town for shopping or laundry.

what i dont do is park and secretively live in a "stealth" rig in the same spot for 3 days straight, even if it is legally 72 hour parking with no legal statutes forbidding sleeping in your rig.



as to the second comment, you seriously feel so entitled that those who have money should subsidize a place for you? as distubing as that is, how does it relate to stealthing being viewed (often rightly so) as outlaw behavior?
 
Labels.. The world anf those who participate agree to labeling which is also ameans to DIVIDE .. So...I live as I do because it feels good.. i can scoot off to where ever I choose.. 
I totally get what everyone is saying.. 
I like the world Im creating..thats my only label and its mine.. 
Peace !!
 
JD GUMBEE said:
Seminole Wind Wrote:
as to the second comment, you seriously feel so entitled that those who have money should subsidize a place for you? as distubing as that is, how does it relate to stealthing being viewed (often rightly so) as outlaw behavior?

I don't feel this way about you very often...but if you said this in my presence, I might try to hug you.
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lol... i accept your Hug, thank you
 
Homeowners pay property taxes and renters pay them via rent. The money pays for roads, police, sidewalks, stoplights and all such things. Property values are based on areas and the taxes higher. I understand a Malibu homeowner getting pissed because a stranger makes home in front of their house instead of staying at a paid campground. Would you like a homeless person to camp on the roof of your van because they need a place to stay? These people have a right to feel safe in their homes.

If you want to live the van life that's great but go stay somewhere they don't mind like a WalMart parking lot and not in front of someone's house. Or go to a nice campground, or free BLM.

I am writing this because you asked how we really feel. I'm about to head out full time after waiting 50 years to do so but I won't be parking in front of someone's house causing them to lose sleep.
 
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