Van Mechanical Issues Are Taking the Wind out of My Sails

[drewker]

Hi Vandwellers, 

I've been a vandweller since 10.15.15 -- It has been a grand adventure as advertised ... I started in NC and have been out west for about 4 months now. I've been able to find work everywhere I go and that is great, but my van, who I affectionately call, "Big Bertha" has been draining me financially and emotionally for about 2 months now. I've really found my stride with this lifestyle but the beautiful mountains of the west are just killing Bertha and killing my happiness as well.  Doesn't matter if I avoid the mountains at this point, the damage is already done it seems. Its a 1998 Dodge Ram 1500 3.9 V-6 with 165k miles...

Amazingly I have been to 8 different mechanics now to diagnose a cylinder misfire problem. I am shocked that nobody has been able to put this to bed for me to date, and of course this has become very expensive, and I am doing this lifestyle to actually SAVE money! I just keep throwing money at it and hoping something will work. I can list everything we've done so far, but its exhausting to even think about it any more. And Big Bertha is not exactly a clunker - most of the mechanics say it looks like its in really good shape for 165k miles. 

Intermittently and totally out of the blue, the van will backfire horribly, shudder, hesitate, lose power and then completely stall out. Then I have a tough time starting again. Could happen on the interstate, a parking lot, or at a red light. I cannot make any firm plans because I just never know what this thing will do. I have had to give up on several job opportunities because of this as well. Some days she will run like a champ and then out of the blue, its chitty chitty bang bang from hell. Stalling out and having problems starting again is by far the most stressful part of this. I'm especially anxiety prone at red lights - this has been very stressful for me and I've started smoking again because of this to relieve my anxiety. 

Any insights or suggestions will of course be appreciated. I'm currently in the Bay Area of California, hoping for a miracle. I could go on talking about some of the low points of this but I don't even want to think about it right now. There has been a lot of cursing, a lot of walking, a lot of grime, anxiety and sweat is the bottom line. I did bankruptcy in 2015 so I cannot just "throw this on the credit card" either.

 

[Richard]

Intermittently and totally out of the blue, the van will backfire horribly, shudder, hesitate, lose power and then completely stall out. Then I have a tough time starting again. Could happen on the interstate, a parking lot, or at a red light. ... Some days she will run like a champ and then out of the blue, its chitty chitty bang bang from hell. Stalling out and having problems starting again is by far the most stressful part of this. ... Any insights or suggestions will of course be appreciated.

I'm no mechanic but I get some good use out of the Internet. So far, this is the closest thing I've found to helping diagnose your symptoms:

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faqs/faq-51.htm

It seems mostly focused on determining whether the problem is fuel or spark. Knowing that will help narrow down the field of possible causes. In fact, clicking on the link at the bottom of that page, the one that says, "Back to FAQs Index" takes you here:

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faq.php

Scrolling down the questions & answers on that page may offer further insight to help you, or a trusted tech, to more quickly identify the cause.

Sorry to hear about your vehicle troubles. I hope this helps a bit, and hope that you'll let us know what you find out if/when it gets sorted out. Best wishes out there!

 

[GotSmart]

There are only two reasons a vehicle wont run.  Fuel, or fire.  

What you are describing with the backfire, sounds like electronic in nature.  

My daughter had an EGR and 02 sensors go out and it did this.  

Nobody had it on a diagnostic computer?

 

[skyl4rk]

Check the fuel tube from the fill opening to the tank. They crack and water gets in.

 

[highdesertranger]

does it backfire out the exhaust or though the air intake? is the backfire a loud crack, like a gun shot? or more of a muffled pop? is the check engine light on? does the check engine light work? has any of the mechanics had the van when this happened? what has been done to try and rectify this? highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

Hi Vandwellers, 

I've been a vandweller since 10.15.15 -- It has been a grand adventure as advertised ... I started in NC and have been out west for about 4 months now. I've been able to find work everywhere I go and that is great, but my van, who I affectionately call, "Big Bertha" has been draining me financially and emotionally for about 2 months now. I've really found my stride with this lifestyle but the beautiful mountains of the west are just killing Bertha and killing my happiness as well.  Doesn't matter if I avoid the mountains at this point, the damage is already done it seems. Its a 1998 Dodge Ram 1500 3.9 V-6 with 165k miles...

Amazingly I have been to 8 different mechanics now to diagnose a cylinder misfire problem. I am shocked that nobody has been able to put this to bed for me to date, and of course this has become very expensive, and I am doing this lifestyle to actually SAVE money! I just keep throwing money at it and hoping something will work. I can list everything we've done so far, but its exhausting to even think about it any more. And Big Bertha is not exactly a clunker - most of the mechanics say it looks like its in really good shape for 165k miles. 

Intermittently and totally out of the blue, the van will backfire horribly, shudder, hesitate, lose power and then completely stall out. Then I have a tough time starting again. Could happen on the interstate, a parking lot, or at a red light. I cannot make any firm plans because I just never know what this thing will do. I have had to give up on several job opportunities because of this as well. Some days she will run like a champ and then out of the blue, its chitty chitty bang bang from hell. Stalling out and having problems starting again is by far the most stressful part of this. I'm especially anxiety prone at red lights - this has been very stressful for me and I've started smoking again because of this to relieve my anxiety. 

Any insights or suggestions will of course be appreciated. I'm currently in the Bay Area of California, hoping for a miracle. I could go on talking about some of the low points of this but I don't even want to think about it right now. There has been a lot of cursing, a lot of walking, a lot of grime, anxiety and sweat is the bottom line. I did bankruptcy in 2015 so I cannot just "throw this on the credit card" either.

Is the van easy to start in the morning? Or is it hard to start, but one it gets running everything is OK until it starts to misbehave?

 

[29chico]

Why you are not getting results by throwing money at your van to solve this issue is at that the majority of auto mechanics are really not auto emissions/ drivability trained diagnosticians.  A skilled diagnostician would get to the root of your problems quickly without guessing and throwing part after part at your van with the hope that something will work.  Then, of course, they usually expect you to pay for their inflated parts prices for components that you did not actually need and also for the labor to not fix the problem. This is called serial replacement of parts in the auto industry and is the surest mark of a wannabe diagnostician. 

I can make the above statements because I have had the formal training in the California Smog tech license program.  I took and passed the course.  

Is the computer in your van reporting diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's)?  If so, what are they?  Does your rig display the problems only when fully warmed up?  More often on hot days or cold days?

The good news is that since you are in California I can point you to your best chance at finding a qualified diagnostician.  The best diagnosticians are often employed in a licensed test and repair Smog station that has Gold Shield status.  The CA BAR holds Gold Shield smog stations to much higher standards in many areas of their business.  

For example, they act as the technical gateway into the  Consumer Assistance Program (CAP)  link:  http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/consumer/Consumer_Assistance_Program/index.html     Only  a Gold Shield station can diagnose and/or repair a car for a low income owner who is trying to get the state to help to pay for repairs to their vehicle so that it will pass smog and be registered and driven again.  For good reason, the state will not put up with a lame tech who gets this important diagnosis wrong frequently.

If you are willing to do a couple of inexpensive things on your van yourself that might solve the problems you are having please let me know.   Even if these tasks do not solve your current problems, they will greatly reduce the probability of future electrical gremlins cropping up.  No serial replacement of parts will happen.

 

[SternWake]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Stalling out and having problems starting again is by far the most stressful part of this."[/font]




Your ECM/PCM is the likely culprit.  You can throw every part at this that you want, until the ECM is the only thing left to replace, and that is how you diagnose a bad ECM/PCM, it seems, unfortunately.

These dodge ECMS are so prone to failure as they are located at the very top of the engine compartment, baking, and the 90+ wires in bundled connector's  weight  is effectively leaning on the solder joints inside the PCM's circuit board with not nearly enough strain relief.

Sometimes the wire pressure is just so...... so that a broken solder contact that was touching enough to pass current 99.99% of the time, hit that specific threshold of temperature and flexibility where contact is lost, and a stall occurs, and it will not restart until the ECM connector is wiggled just so, to reestablish contact and allow normal engine function, until the next time, when clinching your butt cheeks mid intersection in the bad part of town.

Next time it stalls, put it in park, leave the key on, and go wiggle the connectors at the ecm/PCM.  Do you hear relays click on and off?  If so, bingo.

Disconnect battery, 

Remove ECM connectors and inspect wires or contacts for anything obvious.  Look closely at the pires and pins/sockets on the edges  or the top of the ECM connectors
Flush out old dielectric grease with crc QD cleaner or similar  economical electronic connector cleaner sold in auto parts stores,  and mechanical means of dental mini bottle brushes.

Reinspect connectors, pins and barrell/ sockets with strong light and magnification.  See if any of the pins can be easily wiggled more than 1 mm in any direction with tweezers.  If so, it is likely the solder contacts on the circuit board are compromised.

Use Caig DeOxit d5 spray on this cleaned connector to remove the oxidation from the conductive surfaces.  It might look clean, but unless it gleams like oiled chrome or Brass, it is oxidized and causing resistance or even causing an open circuit/ no conductivity.
  Inside the sockets there are little spring arm/ claspers designed to grab the pin tightly.  You can carefully rebend these inward slightly  with a fine sewing needle to exert more pressure on the pins, ensuring better contact.

If the Van still stalls after this, then the solder contacts inside the PCM, where the connector pins mate to the circuit board, are compromised, and need to be resoldered.

Sometimes Zip tying the connector  or wire bundles tight to the ECM body can seemingly eliminate the issue, for a while, but eventually those broken solder contacts cannot be assuaged to cooperate.

I was dealing with a bad PCM issue from November too January 2015.  I could not find anybody who would resolder my PCM's pins, So I learned how to do it myself. But basically this was originally a connector issue, that progressed into a solder breaking issue over 8 to 10 years of 'Zip tying' the connector.

Not a single stall since January 2015 and my resoldering, but I still say I am going to get a backup PCM just to have, not only for diagnostics, but for the reason that to find a good remanufactured ECM/PCM when necessary, is not necessarily possible or convenient when necessary, and as time goes on, perhaps less likely.

Try the ECM connector cleaning.  Do not disregard the necessity of the Caig DeoXit d5 contact cleaner after cleaning out all the old crusty dielectric grease from the connectors No other product can compare.  This stuff is magic electrical contact juice.  I never open any such connector without a can of Caig DeOxit d5 spray and some precision swabs to ensure good conductivity, and how I wish they compensated me for this praise of their product.

http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxit-Cleaning-Solution-Spray/dp/B0002BBV4G

http://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Cotton...&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tamiya+precision+swabs

http://www.amazon.com/Dentek-Slim-B...=1462604479&sr=8-1&keywords=dentek+slim+brush


The following is a sample pack of most of their products, with a few precision swabs and brushes/ applicators.  Try cleaning, lubing the USB contacts of your phone or other devices with Gold g5.
 
http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-Ind...id=1462605355&sr=8-9&keywords=caig+deoxit+kit

Do not fall into the trap of seeing dielectric grease inside the connector, and declaring the connector fine and dandy.  I found hideously oxidized contacts in my 89 dodge van despite them being  firmly immersed in dielectric grease their whole lives.

Do ensure the main battery cable (-) to engine and to firewall shine like silver  on their mating surfaces, and are tight.

Any signs of green or white corrosion on the battery  terminals/ cables or creeping up the wire insulation, and replace them. Do not do anything until you eliminate the battery cables and main grounds.  Then use Deoxit in the pre cleaned connectors.  If that does not work, then you need to get a new PCM, or have yours resoldered/ fixed.

Make sure the rather massive wire bundles to the engine computer connectors cannot put their weight on the ECM, transmitting vibration to it and fracturing those solder joints.

Really if the ECM is the issue, wiggling the connector should produce some result indicating it is the issue.

Stock up on Zip ties, long enough to wrap around the whole ECM, and prepare for some trial and error when exerting pressure on a corner of a connector  in a certain manner, until the relays click on, and stay on, then see if the engine starts

Good luck, let us know what you find.

 

[ccbreder]

It all comes down; what are the diagnostic codes?

 

[highdesertranger]

the situation that Stern is talking about will not set trouble codes. this is a common problem with Dodge/Chrysler vehicles not just vans. highdesertranger

 

[29chico]

If you want some options to get your PCM, powertrain control module AKA engine computer AKA ECM, repaired or buy a repaired one google "pcm repair".

 

[Goshawk]

drewker - aka OP, please get back to this message thread and post what you found. Since you just posted yesterday you would be expected to respond in a few days of consulting with a mechanic to determine what is the root issue. Looks like some great advice was given.

 

[SternWake]

Yes, when the ECM loses power, it will not set or remember any codes other than the battery was disconnected within the last 50 key starts.

When it stalls due to connector/ecm failure, the check engine light will not even illuminate. The Oil pressure idiot light will come on though, if it still works, at least on my 89.

Can't say for sure about a '99, only that the ECM failures are common and cause the owners to start throwing parts at it hoping.

If it does not start when cold, try heating the ECM with a hair drier. If it does then start, bingo.

Wiggling the connector(s) at the ecm with the Key on, if it causes the relays to click on and off, or th eidle speed actuator motor to engage or disengage is another sure sign this is where the issue lies.

Often techs probe the ECM wires right at the base of the connector, and this compromises the insulation, which allows corrosion to set in, and then it is just a matter of time before this occurs.

I had to goto a junkyard and find another 14 wire connector and splice it in, as it was my connector which compromised the solder joints, compounded by my zip tying it, because the techs had probed the wire insulation and it corroded and broke the copper stranding.

 

[drewker]

I'm no mechanic but I get some good use out of the Internet. So far, this is the closest thing I've found to helping diagnose your symptoms:

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faqs/faq-51.htm

It seems mostly focused on determining whether the problem is fuel or spark. Knowing that will help narrow down the field of possible causes. In fact, clicking on the link at the bottom of that page, the one that says, "Back to FAQs Index" takes you here:

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faq.php

Scrolling down the questions & answers on that page may offer further insight to help you, or a trusted tech, to more quickly identify the cause.

Sorry to hear about your vehicle troubles. I hope this helps a bit, and hope that you'll let us know what you find out if/when it gets sorted out. Best wishes out there!

Thanks Richard I will. Been doing an extreme amount of internet research as it is mostly free... I will investigate. In fact if anyone wants me to share some of the links I have uncovered I will be happy to do so.

 

[drewker]

There are only two reasons a vehicle wont run.  Fuel, or fire.  

What you are describing with the backfire, sounds like electronic in nature.  

My daughter had an EGR and 02 sensors go out and it did this.  

Nobody had it on a diagnostic computer?

still have not replaced the pcm or the fuel pump or the o2 sensors. those are the last things i have not tried actually. the pcm is really hard to find, even at salvage yards or lkq which is surprising because you would think cali would have a tremendous amount of resources for something like this

 

[drewker]

There are only two reasons a vehicle wont run.  Fuel, or fire.  

What you are describing with the backfire, sounds like electronic in nature.  

My daughter had an EGR and 02 sensors go out and it did this.  

Nobody had it on a diagnostic computer?

but every single time its a 6 cylinder misfire code, except when i swapped the injectors - now its a 4 cylinder misfire code every time. and yes i had a new injector installed and its still doing this

 

[drewker]

Check the fuel tube from the fill opening to the tank.  They crack and water gets in.

Ok I will check this. I think I have already because I got under the van with a flashlight inspecting the hoses and connections. Put some HEET in the gas tank to eliminate moisture tho

 

[drewker]

does it backfire out the exhaust or though the air intake?  is the backfire a loud crack,  like a gun shot? or more of a muffled pop?  is the check engine light on?  does the check engine light work?  has any of the mechanics had the van when this happened?  what has been done to try and rectify this?  highdesertranger

exhaust pipe...sounds like a 12 gauge shot gun with a slug in it. CE light is always on. 

several sensors were replaced, spark plugs, cap, rotor, etc... when i read the dodge message boards i see many people have had the same probs with a different solution... for some it was the idle control valve that worked, with others it was the crankshaft sensor, etc

 

[drewker]

does it backfire out the exhaust or though the air intake?  is the backfire a loud crack,  like a gun shot? or more of a muffled pop?  is the check engine light on?  does the check engine light work?  has any of the mechanics had the van when this happened?  what has been done to try and rectify this?  highdesertranger

no they have not. a couple of mechanics were rip-off artists, a couple were genuinely great... a couple did not want to mess with the van because of its age... i am learning that this misfire code is a real toughie for them

 

[drewker]

Is the van easy to start in the morning? Or is it hard to start, but one it gets running everything is OK until it starts to misbehave?

good question... generally speaking it will run great in the morning and then start giving me fits at a certain point, bucking like a mule. i then usually stop trying to force bertha to move on unless i am in a really bad spot to park, which has happened quite a lot actually. there have been many times where she started to break down and i was like hell no, not here...so i forced her to keep on down the road to get to a more peaceful spot to park. but this is not always the case. i have had a few mornings where it was problem city right out of the gate in the morning. 

even though i am having all these problems, i still have managed to cover quite a lot of highway. portland to the bay area, up and down hwy 101 in oregon, etc. but i am playing with fire, eventually i think i will do too much damage to the vehicle by pressing on and then its time to sell it for parts on ebay