Vagabound's Build-Out - 1993 Ford E350 Box Truck

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Don't use silicone caulk. I could go on forever about it, but I'm on my phone. I use sikaflex 221, but almost anything is better than silicone on the exterior of a vehicle
 
I've never heard anything good about silicone for our applications.  Sooner or later, it fails.  And due to it's chemical nature, when it does fail, it's almost impossible to get anything else to stick properly where it was used.
 
Here in the boonies, all they have is a few Sikaflex products, and they're all for use with masonry. Sealants and adhesives. 

What about something like Gorilla Glue heavy duty construction adhesive in a caulking tube? If the packaging is to be believed, it bonds to everything and is paintable.

Vagabound
 
Construction adhesives are too brittle when cured...not good for mobile. I order Sikaflex from Amazon and usually have it 3 days later. If you really can't find a one-part urethane, go with butyl. Lexel white is good stuff and usually filters down to the Ace Hardware level. In general, clears won't perform as well as white/colored...whatever they have to do to make it clear takes some of the good stuff out.

I get that you want to source locally and don't want to split hairs of picking the "best" products which will have to be ordered, but if you can't find stuff like a good UV stable urethane caulk, it's time to hit Amazon. You might also look for builder supply stores...odds are whoever is installing gutters out there has a source for Geocell or something like it...

Eternabond tape works great for roof leaks too btw
 
silicone has some very good uses. using it as a general sealant is not one of them. highdesertranger
 
Nothing else sticks to silicone or where it has been. It won't even stick to itself if the 1st application has cured.
When used on something that moves and flexes it will lose adhesion IE: leak.
Some very good product alternatives already mentioned here.
 
The rain is coming in a day or two and I was hoping to outrun it with a local product (plus convenience). If I can't find something suitable tomorrow locally, looks like I'll have to save that work for after the storms. No major delay. Would give me time to order something through Amazon Prime.

So, sticking to caulking tube products for now, please help me make a short list of suitable products to look for (maybe mentioning which you think is best):

First, we're talking about sealants, not adhesives, right? It would be good to know generically what TYPE I'm looking for.

Sikaflex 221
Other Sikaflex ?
Geocell (which one?)
Geoflex Proflex RV Sealant
What else?

Vagabound
 

  • It's both an adhesive and sealant. btw, I had multiple roof leaks for weeks, plus water coming under roll-up...put a bucket under one and cleared a path to where water wanted to exit for others. Box dries out fine.  Sikaflex 221  isn't cheap, but it's not 5200 prices either, and it's the real deal.
  • Sikaflex is the most well known brand of one component polyurethane sealant/adhesive in the world
  • This fast curing product provides permanent elastic adhesion to a number of surfaces with excellent cut and tear resistance
  • Designed to resist the shock and abuse encountered over countless road miles, Silaflex-221 will maintain its strength and adhesion over the long haul
  • Sikaflex-221 is weather resistant, sandable, paintable and NSF approved for potable water and incidental food contact
  • SikaFlex-221 is the most well known brand of one component polyurethane sealant/adhesive in the world
  • Our workhorse
  • This fast curing product provides permanent elastic adhesion to a number of surfaces with excellent cut and tear resistance
 
Dicor is one my old repairman used, he did the windows and fan with it. He recommended it. Rob
 
BradKW said:

  • It's both an adhesive and sealant. btw, I had multiple roof leaks for weeks, plus water coming under roll-up...put a bucket under one and cleared a path to where water wanted to exit for others. Box dries out fine.  Sikaflex 221  isn't cheap, but it's not 5200 prices either, and it's the real deal.
  • Sikaflex is the most well known brand of one component polyurethane sealant/adhesive in the world
  • This fast curing product provides permanent elastic adhesion to a number of surfaces with excellent cut and tear resistance
  • Designed to resist the shock and abuse encountered over countless road miles, Silaflex-221 will maintain its strength and adhesion over the long haul
  • Sikaflex-221 is weather resistant, sandable, paintable and NSF approved for potable water and incidental food contact
  • SikaFlex-221 is the most well known brand of one component polyurethane sealant/adhesive in the world
  • Our workhorse
  • This fast curing product provides permanent elastic adhesion to a number of surfaces with excellent cut and tear resistance

Just read Amazon's deal on Sikaflex. Check the reviews at the bottom. Basically, have everything you want to use it for ready up front. It is a one-use product. Can be expensive for one small project.
Otherwise, sounds like a great product. I will order some.
 
LeeRevell said:
Just read Amazon's deal on Sikaflex.  Check the reviews at the bottom.  Basically, have everything you want to use it for ready up front.  It is a one-use product.  Can be expensive for one small project.
Otherwise, sounds like a great product.  I will order some.


Not sure what you saw in reviews, but I've had no trouble at all opening a tube, using a little bit, then coming back to it a week or more later. I just carefully cut back the tip without cutting through the dry caulking, so I can grab the dry caulk and pop it out and good to go. I've don't this with the same tube over an over in the span of a month. This is actually why I stopped using 5200...you get two uses, first one normal and second one slice open the tube and scoop.

Oh, avoid the self-leveling...it has it's purposes, but not for what you want to do.
 
BradKW said:
Not sure what you saw in reviews, but I've had no trouble at all opening a tube, using a little bit, then coming back to it a week or more later. I just carefully cut back the tip without cutting through the dry caulking, so I can grab the dry caulk and pop it out and good to go. I've don't this with the same tube over an over in the span of a month. This is actually why I stopped using 5200...you get two uses, first one normal and second one slice open the tube and scoop.

Oh, avoid the self-leveling...it has it's purposes, but not for what you want to do.

I just read the reviews at the bottom. Even the five star raters found it hardened after one use. If your mileage differed, good. Saves hard earned money.
 
DannyB1954:  "Pahrump Home Depot has 61 tubes of the self leveling Sikaflex."  Thanks for checking for me.  I was in there today, saw that, and read the tube carefully.  See below.

BradKW:  "Oh, avoid the self-leveling...it has it's purposes, but not for what you want to do."  I think you're exactly right.  One of my purposes is on the side of the box, around the new bolts and screws as I put them in.  The tube specifically says something like "Not for vertical applications".  That stopped me in my tracks.

I'll likely order Sikaflex 221 from Amazon.

Vagabound
 
Progress Update:  
Rolling, Rolling, Rolling ... Keep Those Doorgies Rolling, Rawhide! ;-)


Although I want to be cutting wood, and banging nails, and screwing screws while the truck transforms in front of my eyes, the unfortunate fact is that there are a few boring, but necessary things that must be done first.  I mentioned three of those in my first main post.

So far, I've completed the first task -- rolling door latch and cable support bracket restoration.  I'll describe what that was like for grins, and in case anyone else attempts this.

Why did I mess with that part when everyone else says to remove and trash the roll-up door?

Well, because I'm keeping the roll-up door.  

Why?  

Because I'm going to make the last 2-1/2 feet of the box into a "shed", giving me much benefit, and eliminating nearly every problem associated with roll-up doors.  You know, mini-garage ... peg board, hanging extension cords, tools, batteries, generator, etc.  At the 2-1/2' mark, I'll build a wall that isolates the shed from the living space.  That will necessitate a door in the side of the box, which is also on the "to do" list.  In any case, back to the rolling door latches, etc.

First, the main door latch was falling off.  That would have left the entire vehicle unsecured.  Thus, the priority.  The rivets holding the latch to the door were rusted through mostly.  So, I removed it (drilled and hacksawed it off), fashioned some steel plates to go under it and behind it on the other side of the door, and bolted it all back on.  That part was not difficult, but was just time-consuming.

Second, I needed to do something similar to the two brackets on the door that hold the end of the support cables.  Those cables attach at the top of the door to a rolling spring bar under tension.  They are what literally pull the door up when you unlatch it.  The door structure around the latches was in poor condition.  So, I did something similar by removing them, adding steel plates to reinforce them, and then reconnecting them.

Well, once you disconnect one of those support cables, the real fun starts.  Allow me to illustrate ... the basic steps to fix one side / one cable:

1.  Raise door to near highest position.
2.  Remove cotter pin holding the main pin in the support cable bracket.
3.  Remove the main pin.  The cable now dangles free, no longer under any tension.
4.  Because the cable is not under tension, the cable unspools from the winding wheel at the top, creating a cable hairball.
5.  Said hairball makes moving the door up or down nearly impossible.
6.  Fight the door to get it down to the near lowest position.

(Insert sub-project here to fix / reinforce the support cable bracket)

7.  When you're ready to reconnect everything, unwind the cable from the bar and wheel above.  Remove the cable entirely.
8.  With the door still down, in exactly the right position to barely allow your hands to access the winding wheel at the top, wind the cable around the wheel again the right number of times (see other side for comparison).
9.  Push the cable out the top of the door crack, so that it hangs down on the outside of the door.
10.  Being unable to lift the door now, crawl out through the pass-through into the cab.  Exit to the rear door.
11.  Now the rodeo begins.  The cable connection point is dangling about 6" above the bracket.  You can't just pull it down.  Doing so requires the force to rotate that entire spring/tension bar mechanism above the door.
12.  Fashion a saddle stirrup gizmo to tie to the cable.  Step into it and use your body weight to pull the cable down, while simultaneously inserting the pin through the cable and bracket at the same time.  This takes a lot of force and luck.
13.  When Step 12 fails many times, bounce on the cable to try to get it to come down enough.  For me, that created at least 250 lbs. of downward force, and that was barely enough to get the cable into position.
14.  When Step 13 finally succeed, put the main pin in, and replace the cotter pin.
15.  Test the door by rolling it up.
16.  Watch as the cable get snarled and create a cable hairball again because a) the tension is wrong, or b) the winding wheel and cable are not in proper alignment.
17.  Repeat Steps 1-14.
18.  Repeat Step 15 & 16.  Curse profusely.
19.  Finally learn how to move the winding wheel to make it align with the support cable bracket at the bottom of the door.
20.  Repeat Steps 1-13.  
21.  Finally figure out that you can put a ratchet rope on the end of the cable, so that when you bounce and the cable goes down, you can tighten it and save your progress.  Repeat this a couple of times until the cable gets reattached.
22.  Repeat Step 15.
23.  Watch as the door finally works.  Release a tense breath.
24.  Notice that the support bracket and the wheel are not really quite in alignment.
25.  Try to adjust them.
26.  Watch as the hairball magically returns.
27.  Repeat whole process about three times until it is finally correct.
28.  Realize that you learned far more about box truck roll-up doors than you ever wanted to know.
29.  Start on the second of two support cables.
...

And just for fun, the first time I did this, it was under deadline, finishing at 2am.

Below are a few before and after photos ...


Latch before:

Latch before-1s.jpg


Latch after:

Latch after-2s.jpg


Cable Support Bracket before:

Bracket before-4s.jpg


Cable Support Bracket Rodeo:

Bracket during-5s.jpg


Cable Support Bracket after:

Bracket after-6s.jpg


Next update will be on repairing the wood in the box walls.

Vagabound
 

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On sealing up a partial tube of sealant, electrical wire nuts work well I am told. You just have to get one that matches the hole in the end of the tube that you made.
 
Repairs look good!

I got lost reading the steps around #12. I'm not sure if you figured out how to tension the rod by leveraging spring collar or not, but if you're not finished with this step say so...I think you've missed something that makes that a lot less struggle...
 
BradKW:
I'm sure that the way I did it was not the most efficient. As is normal, I usually do it the wrong way and the hardest way first. However, I did evolve  and improve over the course of the process. It's done now. 

Two things:

1.  I didn't talk about this part enough, but making sure that the support cables are nearly 100% vertical is pretty important. If the support cables are somewhat at an angle up to the wheel, as the door rolls up and down, the cable will be pulled off the side of the wheel and become unfurled.  That wheel / spool can slide left and right along that spring bar. It has two adjustment screws on each wheel. None of that is immediately obvious to a first-timer.

2.   I also got lost around Step 12. That's good to know. It means I accurately conveyed what it was like to do that job.

----------

HDR:. 
Sealing door?  I won't. See my earlier comments about making a shed.   Depending on how you count, they are around Paragraph 6 in the last update.

Vagabound
 
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