Vagabound's Build-Out - 1993 Ford E350 Box Truck
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LeeRevell
Well-known member
Any trouble with registering and/or insurance? Sometimes there is a weight limit above which either could be problematic. Depends upon where you are.
Just came across this YouTube of Man Living in Converted Box Truck. It's a slideshow really, not a video.
But I thought he did a nice job using basic home construction materials and methods...a build like that could go together fast I think.
But I thought he did a nice job using basic home construction materials and methods...a build like that could go together fast I think.
BradKW:
It's not that I'm unhappy with the GVWR. This is the situation. I'm sure this truck will carry everything I want to carry and more. This is not an issue of any type of practical limit. This is all about regulations and dealing with various administrative things. Below 10,000 pounds GVWR, people are just treated like they have a normal vehicle like any other car. Above 10000 pounds GVWR, supposedly all sorts of evil things start to happen. For example, difficulty getting insurance, parking, road access, highway inspections, DOT numbers, etc. It remains to be seen how much of that is theoretical, mythical, or a real problem.
Thanks for the slideshow info. I am using similar ideas.
LeeRevell:
No problems whatsoever. The insurance seemed to work just like any other car I've ever gotten, with the exception of some confusion over whether it was a truck or van or what have you. DMV registration, despite being the actual manifestation of purgatory on Earth, worked smoothly with only the exact same problem -- what is it, a truck or a van. When the GVWR was asked for, I gave it. When anything else was asked for, I gave it. DMV registration in Nevada might have been a little easier because the Arizona temporary registration listed the vehicle weight at 8000 pounds. I'll never know what really mattered vs. what didn't matter.
rvpopeye:
Check. However, how to actually do that in real life, I'm not sure. I guess you just loaded up the way you want to, then go get it weighed somewhere, and see what happens. Make adjustments from there.
cap1961:
Wet bath? Yes. I've got devious plans about how to use all that shower space during the remaining 98% of the day when I'm not showering. Let's wait and see if that comes to fruition.
Still figuring out drainage in my head, but I don't think it'll be a big deal. I think I want to be able to drain directly through the bottom of the truck, when I think that's appropriate, and other times retain the water for pumping into a gray water jug.
Vagabound
It's not that I'm unhappy with the GVWR. This is the situation. I'm sure this truck will carry everything I want to carry and more. This is not an issue of any type of practical limit. This is all about regulations and dealing with various administrative things. Below 10,000 pounds GVWR, people are just treated like they have a normal vehicle like any other car. Above 10000 pounds GVWR, supposedly all sorts of evil things start to happen. For example, difficulty getting insurance, parking, road access, highway inspections, DOT numbers, etc. It remains to be seen how much of that is theoretical, mythical, or a real problem.
Thanks for the slideshow info. I am using similar ideas.
LeeRevell:
No problems whatsoever. The insurance seemed to work just like any other car I've ever gotten, with the exception of some confusion over whether it was a truck or van or what have you. DMV registration, despite being the actual manifestation of purgatory on Earth, worked smoothly with only the exact same problem -- what is it, a truck or a van. When the GVWR was asked for, I gave it. When anything else was asked for, I gave it. DMV registration in Nevada might have been a little easier because the Arizona temporary registration listed the vehicle weight at 8000 pounds. I'll never know what really mattered vs. what didn't matter.
rvpopeye:
Check. However, how to actually do that in real life, I'm not sure. I guess you just loaded up the way you want to, then go get it weighed somewhere, and see what happens. Make adjustments from there.
cap1961:
Wet bath? Yes. I've got devious plans about how to use all that shower space during the remaining 98% of the day when I'm not showering. Let's wait and see if that comes to fruition.
Still figuring out drainage in my head, but I don't think it'll be a big deal. I think I want to be able to drain directly through the bottom of the truck, when I think that's appropriate, and other times retain the water for pumping into a gray water jug.
Vagabound
DannyB1954
Well-known member
The GVWR isn't going to change no matter how much you overload it. It is the recommended capacity of the vehicle, not the actual weight. If the title says 8,000 lbs, you go by the regulations of a 8,000 lb vehicle, (even if you put 12,000 lbs in it). Where being over the limit will bite you is at a weigh scale. Also If they choose to inspect your vehicle and don't like something, (like your brakes), you ain't going nowhere. It is call out a mobile mechanic or tow truck time. Get it registered as an RV and I believe you can bypass those.
Buy a vehicle with a GVWR of 12,000 lbs, and it doesn't matter if you drive it around empty. You still are under the regs of over 10,000lbs.
Buy a vehicle with a GVWR of 12,000 lbs, and it doesn't matter if you drive it around empty. You still are under the regs of over 10,000lbs.
masterplumber
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From 10,000 GVWR to 25,999 GVWR you don't have to stop at the permanent scales on the highway - even when running as a commercial vehicle, with a few exceptions like hazmat, etc. If you have commercial plates over 10,000 GVWR you are supposed to stop at any temporary scales or safety check points set up by DOT. And also follow truck routes. In practice they tend to only enforce this if you have a company name on the truck and are obviously using the vehicle commercially. My current truck has a 14,000 GVWR and plates that allow for commercial use. But it is registered in my own name and has no company markings on it. So far I have never been waved into the temporaries, and they set them up on roads I travel on often. If I ever do get caught, I'll just ask for forgiveness and put my company name and DOT numbers on it. I just don't want to hassle with it, especially since this is both my work and personal vehicle. If you've already made it through the DMV and insurance, I personally wouldn't worry about it unless you're pulled over by a state patrol person.
DannyB1954
Well-known member
From California's web site http://www.dot.ca.gov/trafficops/trucks/weigh-stations.html
DO THESE VEHICLES HAVE TO STOP AT THE SCALES?
PICKUP -- It depends on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), unladen weight, and bed of the truck.
GVWR under 11,500 pounds, unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more, or not equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- YES.
DO THESE VEHICLES HAVE TO STOP AT THE SCALES?
PICKUP -- It depends on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), unladen weight, and bed of the truck.
GVWR under 11,500 pounds, unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more, unladen weight 8,001 pounds or more, or not equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length -- YES.
DannyB1954
Well-known member
Same page says
PICKUP WITH CAB / CREW CAB WITH BOX-TYPE BED -- YES
Discussion: The utility or box bed has to enter weigh stations.
RENTAL TRUCK -- YES
Discussion: Rental trucks can be a U-Haul, Ryder, Sears, Budget, Enterprise, etc. A rental truck is a motor truck, according to CVC Section 410, and must stop at the weigh stations. Most scale facilities make this very clear with signs reminding drivers: "All Daily Rental/Moving Trucks Must Stop At Scales When Open." However, if the rental truck is a pick up, it does not necessarily have to stop (see "Pick Up " section above). If the rental truck is a flat bed or utitility bed, then YES, it does have to stop.
I don't see where it says unless owner says it is for private use. You register it commercial, you may need a lawyer when you go to court. In the case of rental trucks, they are almost always used to move personal belongings, and not for hire.
PICKUP WITH CAB / CREW CAB WITH BOX-TYPE BED -- YES
Discussion: The utility or box bed has to enter weigh stations.
RENTAL TRUCK -- YES
Discussion: Rental trucks can be a U-Haul, Ryder, Sears, Budget, Enterprise, etc. A rental truck is a motor truck, according to CVC Section 410, and must stop at the weigh stations. Most scale facilities make this very clear with signs reminding drivers: "All Daily Rental/Moving Trucks Must Stop At Scales When Open." However, if the rental truck is a pick up, it does not necessarily have to stop (see "Pick Up " section above). If the rental truck is a flat bed or utitility bed, then YES, it does have to stop.
I don't see where it says unless owner says it is for private use. You register it commercial, you may need a lawyer when you go to court. In the case of rental trucks, they are almost always used to move personal belongings, and not for hire.
jimindenver
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I drove from Seattle to Denver and then from Denver to Dallas in a U-haul only stopping for gas, eating and sleeping.
DannyB1954
Well-known member
Nobody says laws have to make sense. In California If you have a 1/2 ton pickup truck and put a box on the back, you have to go through weigh scales. If you use a 1 ton pickup to pull a trailer full to the brim 5 tons, you don't have to stop.
If your title says you are 8,000lb empty then you don't need to stop. If it says 8001 lbs, then you do. I guess they needed to draw the line somewhere. I would still not exceed your GVWR as they do have portable scales
Being able to beat a ticket on an interpretation of a statute is not the same as not getting a ticket. Then you get to go back there to fight the ticket. If it is registered as commercial, has commercial plates, is over 8,000 lbs empty, You may get stopped blowing past a weigh station. Will you get cited once you show off your living room? Depends on the cop I suppose. You can say it is not for hire, but the last sentence says OR designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property. When a statute says and, all conditions need to be met. When it says or, any condition makes the case. So LE asks you is this your property in here?, have you designed the vehicle to move your property?
I think your best bet is to finish your build and get it inspected and re registered as RV. If you blow past a weigh scale LE will see by the plate it is an RV, not commercial. You may still get stopped, but once they see you have no cargo, you should be in the clear.
2813. Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection of the size, weight, equipment, and smoke emissions of the vehicle at any location where members of the California Highway Patrol are conducting tests and inspections of commercial vehicles and when signs are displayed requiring the stop. Every driver who fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection when signs are displayed requiring that stop is guilty of a misdemeanor.
CVC Section 260 defines "commercial vehicle" (bolding added):
260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
If your title says you are 8,000lb empty then you don't need to stop. If it says 8001 lbs, then you do. I guess they needed to draw the line somewhere. I would still not exceed your GVWR as they do have portable scales
Being able to beat a ticket on an interpretation of a statute is not the same as not getting a ticket. Then you get to go back there to fight the ticket. If it is registered as commercial, has commercial plates, is over 8,000 lbs empty, You may get stopped blowing past a weigh station. Will you get cited once you show off your living room? Depends on the cop I suppose. You can say it is not for hire, but the last sentence says OR designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property. When a statute says and, all conditions need to be met. When it says or, any condition makes the case. So LE asks you is this your property in here?, have you designed the vehicle to move your property?
I think your best bet is to finish your build and get it inspected and re registered as RV. If you blow past a weigh scale LE will see by the plate it is an RV, not commercial. You may still get stopped, but once they see you have no cargo, you should be in the clear.
2813. Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection of the size, weight, equipment, and smoke emissions of the vehicle at any location where members of the California Highway Patrol are conducting tests and inspections of commercial vehicles and when signs are displayed requiring the stop. Every driver who fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection when signs are displayed requiring that stop is guilty of a misdemeanor.
CVC Section 260 defines "commercial vehicle" (bolding added):
260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
Danny: Thanks for the good info.
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Two things come to mind:
1. We're mostly talking about California only here.
2. When I was driving from Phoenix to LA to pick up my cargo, I remember stopping at an inspection station just across the Colorado River into California. The guy asked what my company name was for the truck. I said none, it's just my personal vehicle and I'm using it to carry my household goods. He smiled and waved me through. No guarantee of the same results every place and every day, but that was a good sign. And it was in California.
Vagabound
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Two things come to mind:
1. We're mostly talking about California only here.
2. When I was driving from Phoenix to LA to pick up my cargo, I remember stopping at an inspection station just across the Colorado River into California. The guy asked what my company name was for the truck. I said none, it's just my personal vehicle and I'm using it to carry my household goods. He smiled and waved me through. No guarantee of the same results every place and every day, but that was a good sign. And it was in California.
Vagabound
ArtW
Well-known member
California does seem to have the most Draconian regulations regarding, well, everything
Okay, back to build-out related things...
General guideline for this build-out and thread:
Even though there might be an optimum, super-dooper product in existence, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to locate simple commonly available items that are suitable for the job and use them.
With that in mind, and without kicking off a 30-post sealant war, I'd like to get some opinions.
It's time for me to seal some screw hole leaks in the aluminum roof of the truck. And also to replace some bolts in the side of the box. Later I will be installing a skylight and probably two fans in the roof. In all cases, I plan to use 100% silicone caulk.
I don't have any real concerns about the caulk holding up over time. My only concern is that 100% silicone caulk is categorized as non paintable. I don't see that being a big issue, because it will be under fan flanges, behind bolt heads, etc. It might make sense to go back around the edges of some things (like the bases of the fans) with a paintable acrylic latex caulk. For the roof, I later plan to paint the entire roof with the aluminized mobile home roof coating.
So, any thoughts or comments?
Vagabound
General guideline for this build-out and thread:
Even though there might be an optimum, super-dooper product in existence, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to locate simple commonly available items that are suitable for the job and use them.
With that in mind, and without kicking off a 30-post sealant war, I'd like to get some opinions.
It's time for me to seal some screw hole leaks in the aluminum roof of the truck. And also to replace some bolts in the side of the box. Later I will be installing a skylight and probably two fans in the roof. In all cases, I plan to use 100% silicone caulk.
I don't have any real concerns about the caulk holding up over time. My only concern is that 100% silicone caulk is categorized as non paintable. I don't see that being a big issue, because it will be under fan flanges, behind bolt heads, etc. It might make sense to go back around the edges of some things (like the bases of the fans) with a paintable acrylic latex caulk. For the roof, I later plan to paint the entire roof with the aluminized mobile home roof coating.
So, any thoughts or comments?
Vagabound
I would check with some expedition guys about using silicone. I will try and find the product they use, and with my faulty memory I don't remember what the issue was but the guy was replacing it. May work fine and it would not be the first or last time I am wrong, but check, please.
DannyB1954
Well-known member
In the shipping industry we always used a product called sikaflex. When we had to pop rivet a panel in place, that is what we used over the rivet hole. It had good UV resistance and stuck real well if applied to clean surfaces. We never painted anything, so I don't know how compatible it is with paint.
DannyB1954 said:
Was doing some googling on sikaflex and found this link which seemed like a good summary of the options from silicone to 5200. I am not knowledgeable so I could be mislead pretty easily but it did seem like a good summary
http://blog.dankim.com/2009/04/24/marine-sealants/
Thanks
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