Use small words

[PassIntent]

I am a mechanical and electrical idiot. Meaning I've read websites and more than a few of the posts here in the forum...and I know y'all are "speaking" English, separately each word seems to make sense...but when you string them together it's absolute gibberish to me. LOL


So here is my question, I'm not going to be able afford solar panels right off the bat

I was considering just getting a golf battery and running a charge from the start battery while the van is moving/idling.

Now with that idea in mind. 

How long do I need to drive/idle to charge the battery?

I don't intend to run a lot of things in the beginning. My cell phone charger, my tablet charger, a fan, and a light of some kind at night. Most of these items will be used in the evening/night time hours.

I'm considering ordering this battery:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/UPG-85980-D5722-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Batteries-12V-35-AH-UB12350/21618851

With those things running (the fan will likely run all night cuz its really really hot right now!) and the chargers only when I need them and the light for a few hours how long can I expect a full charge to last? Will it get me through the night? Gas expense will be somewhat of an issue since I want to save as much as I can as quickly as I can so I intend to park for 14 days then move about 100 miles and park for 14 days and i don't want to do a lot of driving/idling if I don't absolutely have to. Will I need to charge it every day? 

Confuzled!

Thank you

P.I.

 

[ccbreder]

That battery is much too small to be practical. It may not run the fan very many hours. It will be enough for the chargers if they are direct from the 12 volt. Maybe a small led lamp. A temporary set of cables connecting the start battery Plus and Neg with the same on the small battery would do for charging, but may take longer than you drive. Disconnect small battery from start battery when not running the engine. Amps-out amps-in can't really be broken down as to how many miles to drive. Your vehicle battery should be good to charge your phone and tablet while you drive, using an adapter from the 12 volt. You would be well served with a solar system and your batteries to sit for 2 weeks and drive only 100 miles.

 

[SternWake]

A golf cart battery and that battery you lonked are quite different in capacity and requirements.

Your stated usages are not much, but it really depends on teh power consumption of the fan at the speed you will require of it.

Rechargin by alternator also has many many variables, but one thing can be said for sure. While an alternator, if well wired to the Auxiliary battery, can recharge that battery back upto 80% quickly, than last 20% takes much longer no mattery which charging source is used.

There are consequences for partial state of charge cycling a battery, and especially an AGM battery, as all batteries would perferably live their entire lifespans at 100% state of charge. Never getting back to 100% is hard on a battery and the lower is remains and the longer it remains there the harder it is on the battery.

Generally getting to 100% takes a minimum 4 hours from the time the battery was brought to 80%., no matter which charging source is used .

Shorter battery longevity is the consequence of not regularly returning a battery to 100%.

How much shorter is highly variable.

That UPG battery, well I do not have much faith in them. They can be quite old when purchased and have already lost a significant portion of their capacity from sitting and self discharging.

Golf cart batteries generally refer to 6v golf cart batteries, and these generally have 205 to 232 AH of capacity when wired in series for 12v. That is ~8x the capacity of the UPG battery you linked to.

12v golf cart batteries do exist, but they are not quite as resistant to abuse as the 6v batteries.

I do not feel that you need this much capacity with your stated loads, and that to start with you can get away with much less while you learn to live on battery power and its inherent limitations.

I would say to get at least 75 AH of capacity for your stated needs, and if you really want an AGM battery for the lack of gasses emitted when charging, then a known fresh UPG battery could give you acceptable service, if you recharge it via a thick enough copper circuit from engine battery or alternator itself.

These UPG batteries have a 30% maximum recharge rate which would be 30 amps for a 100AH capacity battery. The wiring itself from alternator or engine battery to Aux battery can be tailored to limit amps to no more than 30 amps.

Other higher quality AGMs like Lifeline, Northstar and Odyssey have no real upper limits on charging amperage, but they require that their minimum charging amps be met, which is much harder to do.

Parking for 14 days while depleting a battery without recharging is going to be very hard on any battery. Idling to recharge is wasteful.

Your recharging needs could be met by solar, if you park in a sunny area and do not care about stealth. 100 watts in your stated usage should be more than adequate, and you would not really have to worry about the battery, and you might not even have to worry about hooking it to the alternator or engine battery for charging.

I have much higher power requirements than what you state, and in summer time my 200 watts of solar is more than enough, but in winter time it is not, unless I conserve, which i prefer not to do.

 

[AuricTech]

Unless your phone and tablet can't be charged using USB, I have a much simpler idea, which won't require any wiring (hooking that battery up to your vehicle's electrical system would require additional effort and expense, beyond the cost of the battery).

Buy two USB battery packs, either two folding photovoltaic (PV, a.k.a. solar) panels or a single folding PV panel with two USB charging ports, a two-way 12V-port splitter, and two 12V USB chargers.  Note: I have not used any of the products I'll use in the illustration below.  All Amazon links will give our host a bit of kickback.

For instance, you can buy this Anker 10000mAh battery pack for $21.99 each.  That puts you at $43.98.

When you're boondocking, you can recharge the battery packs using either two PV panels (such as the Anker 8W folding PV panel[/ur], at $29.99 each), or a single PV panel (such as the Anker 14W folding PV panel, available from the same Amazon page for $49.99).  Since the single-panel option is less expensive, that would put you at $49.99 for the PV panel.  Added to the two USB battery banks, that gives a total of $93.97.

While you're driving, you can recharge both battery banks through your 12V port (a.k.a. "cigarette lighter").

 

[PassIntent]

......

 

[highdesertranger]

x2 on what stern said. that battery you linked to is kinda small and kinda expensive for the rating. remember you should only use half of that 35AH rating. also relying on or vehicle as the only charge source is not very efficient. I was looking on Craigslist the other day and there where some killer deals on solar panels. have you thought of that route. I guess it really depends on your fan. what's the amp draw. you need to add up your usage first and go from there. that will determine the battery size. so give us some numbers and we can help you figure it out. once you start to work though it one step at a time you should get it. highdesertranger

 

[PassIntent]

Hah I answered my own questions after I typed up a whole post. LOL

Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated


P.I.

 

[AuricTech]

I'll post the details tomorrow morning, but it seems that your power needs could more easily be met by using a couple of USB battery packs, maybe a 7W-16W folding solar panel or two, one or two 12V-to-USB cigarette lighter chargers, a USB-powered fan and a USB-powered light. That would negate the need to hook a 12V house battery into your vehicle's electrical system (and the cost thereof). You wouldn't need to wire anything, and you could take the components with you away from your vehicle.

 

[PassIntent]

Okay so after doing a little more research and being completely honest with myself about what I can and can not live without I ended up looking at these two things. It strains my budget to the absolute max but if I live on beans and rice for a month and give up a creature comfort or two I can probably swing it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&tag=cheaprvliving-20&linkId=76Z5MD2TTKMZPQJX

http://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Group-Size-29-Marine-Battery/20531539

Is that a better battery choice? And with these two purchase will that be a complete electrical setup or did I leave something out?

highdesterranger- No I didn't even think about craigslist I will have to check it out! TY

 

[PassIntent]

I'll post the details tomorrow morning, but it seems that your power needs could more easily be met by using a couple of USB battery packs, maybe a 7W-16W folding solar panel or two, one or two 12V-to-USB cigarette lighter chargers, a USB-powered fan and a USB-powered light. That would negate the need to hook a 12V house battery into your vehicle's electrical system (and the cost thereof). You wouldn't need to wire anything, and you could take the components with you away from your vehicle.

Oh that would be nice! Thank you AT.

 

[AuricTech]

I'm assuming, PI, that your phone and tablet can be recharged via USB. If so, then for around half the cost of the PV kit to which you linked (not even including the battery), you can meet your stated power needs quite handily. The neat thing is that it's scalable; you can increase battery capacity and/or PV panel capacity in small increments, as long as your needs are limited to recharging small electronics and running a fan and light. The best thing is that you won't have to wire anything into your vehicle, thus saving you both effort and expense.

 

[SternWake]

That group 29 wally world battery, are you going to have this mounted in the passenger compartment?


Flooded/ wet batteries offgass when charging at higher states of charge.  Mostly hydrogen and oxygen but with a slight sulfuric acid mist carried along.

One can definitely smell them in an enclosed, poorly ventilated area.

 

[PassIntent]

That group 29 wally world battery, are you going to have this mounted in the passenger compartment?


Flooded/ wet batteries offgass when charging at higher states of charge.  Mostly hydrogen and oxygen but with a slight sulfuric acid mist carried along.

One can definitely smell them in an enclosed, poorly ventilated area.

That sounds horrifying! LOL I was thinking of putting in a box in the passenger compartment...after reading that I'm not sure I want one at all! Yikes.

 

[akrvbob]

It looks like a very good system that will meet your needs extremely well! You will need to spend a little more money. They don't include fuses and you need them, you'll need caulking for the holes you drill, a few small things. . There may be a few other things. But I don't think it will add up to too much.

The entire 13 years I've lived in a vehicle I've had flooded wet cells in the vehicle with me. As I type this I have 4 flooded golf carts 6 feet away me behind the front seats. I've never used a box or vented them.

Of course I'm dead, so you may want to keep that in mind.
Bob

 

[PassIntent]

It looks like a very good system that will meet your needs extremely well! You will need to spend a little more money. They don't include fuses and you need them, you'll need caulking for the holes you drill, a few small things. . There may be a few other things. But I don't think it will add up to too much.

The entire 13 years I've lived in a vehicle I've had flooded wet cells in the vehicle with me. As I type this I have 4 flooded golf carts 6 feet away me behind the front seats. I've never used a box or vented them.

Of course I'm dead, so you may want to keep that in mind.
Bob

Ghost posting at its finest!

 

[ccbreder]

To save some $$, You will only need 100 watt Renolgy to start building your system. That battery is not first choice, but is better than the 35 amp you posted. It should be fine in a marine battery box. It should also be well-clamped-down in case of a collision. You will only worry about gassing when you are heavy charging, not from solar.