United Airlines

[John61CT]

“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.” — Nietzsche

 

[John61CT]

Really just wasn't their week was it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...198b7a-2056-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

 

[Ballenxj]

Really just wasn't their week was it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...198b7a-2056-11e7-be2a-3a1fb24d4671_story.html

WOW! According to this article he threw it into the toilet? I hope he killed it first, I mean, who would want to be sitting on the toilet and have that come up? Secondly did they try and recover it to prove it wasn't a hoax? Who in their right mind picks up a scorpion with their bare hand?

 

[bigsallysmom]

Wow. What a thread. Interesting.

And I'm sitting here thinking...

if I was one of those other riders, I think I'd be yelling let me the hell offa this plane.

 

[DannyB1954]

And I tell you what...  since you think that cops are so poorly trained and perform so poorly so often, next time you're near an armed confrontation, rather than calling a cop how about you run toward the gunfire yourself and do what you think is right to ensure the public safety?  That way the cops won't harm anyone.  Whaddya say?


I'm amazed that you're so well versed in the officer's Department's use of force policy, and that you've interviewed as many witnesses as possible to actually determine what happened and how culpable the cops were.  Great job!  Me?  I say we wait for the results of the internal affairs investigation and see what conclusions the investigators reach before we give them a fair trial and hang them.   They may have over-reacted.  They may not.  Give the department an opportunity to figure out what to do next.  It'll all come out in the wash.

I don't rely on the Police for protection. I carry every day. I got a 9mm revolver on my hip as I write. Yes it uses moon clips. I have yet to hear on the news that a LEO has kept anyone from being shot and killed in the Las Vegas Area. Never seen the headline LEO saves people from gunfire.  Couple weeks ago now a shooter got on a bus and killed someone, injured another. They didn't know if there were hostages, but swat surrunded the bus and waited Hours for the guy to give up. Not saying they are bad, saying you can't count on them being where needed. I started carrying years ago when some nutcase went into a pancake house and started shooting people. I wondered what would I be able to do if I was there. As far as protecting others, it is not a good idea. Each of them had a chance to get their CCW permit and chose to let Police protect them instead. All I need is to have somebody confuse me as being the bad guy and start shooting at me. Having a bad guy shoot at you is bad enough let alone have a good guy put you in their sights. Then what do you do, shoot the good guy in self defense?  How do you know he is a good guy and not another bad guy? Best just to get the hell out. 

I haven't been in any shoot outs, but I have run into burning boats. One of my jobs in the Navy, (Back during the Vietnam war), was a fire fighter. Once I was the lead man, (actually the only man), into an ammo bunker because of smoke. A mechanic was installing a water drinking fountain and needed to burn a hole in the bulkhead to run lines. His fire watch was on the other side of the bulkhead.  Turns out there was a space in between the bulkheads. It was a shaft leading to the ammo magazine for the 5" guns. There was smoke down there for sure, but no fire. The slag from the torch had cooled as it fell down the shaft. As a civilian I also put out a boat fire. (became the lead suspect as a result). Apparently a lot of arsonists like to get into the action. I worked on the West coast Waterfront for 30 years. Is that enough bravado for you? I got more. 

Most of the time the LEO doesn't hit their target. That is just the way it is. Half a dozen of them shooting at the same guy and maybe he will take a couple of rounds. There should be no weapons where these guys operate. People have already gone through metal detectors, x ray, and frisks. Their superiors probably worry more about a bad guy taking away their weapon if they had one. A bad guy can make a shive from most anything, Stick the LEO, take the gun and board a plane. 

I did not suspend the one Officer, his department did, and the news said that he did not adhere to proper procedures. Not news that I created. Why didn't they suspend all three if it is standard during an investigation? Three men in there prime could not escort a 69 year old man off the plane without sending him to a hospital. Real dangerous hombre he was. You could tell right off by his girl scream.

 

[Gunny]

A bit of humor, 2 minute video with some colorful language.

Rob

 

[IanC]

Doesn't it seem strange that in all the different onboard incidents captured on video, the video we see always comes via cell phones. Surely there must be security cameras on all flights - there are everywhere else.

 

[GotSmart]

Dao, a 69-year-old Kentucky physician suffered a “significant” concussion, a broken nose, damaged sinuses, and had two teeth knocked out as he was forcefully removed from the flight.

His lawyer, Tom Demetrio, said the doctor will require reconstructive surgery.

No mems, jokes, or other hyperbole.  

Nobody deserves to be abused in this manner.  He was on an airplane, not at a presidential campaign rally. He is still in the hospital. 

The people that forcebly removed him completely screwed up.

 

[cognitive dissonance]

As someone who thinks a great deal about the state of affairs in both our country and the rest of the world, I am more and more amazed by this incident - it touches on an amazing number of issues that bedevil us these days.

I chose your comments, but there's othing personal here, hepcat. I don't know you and you don't know me. A whole lot of people are making arguments similar to yours - I chose to reply to your post only because these exact statements were made here. My thoughts will be in italics.

hepcat: "Rob, Civil Service is their only protection from being maliciously and disproportionately dumped on by public outrage; especially in incidents like this." This is ridiculous. No aspect of the public response to this travesty has been out of line. In fact, the only aspect of this that could be described as malicious or disproportionate is the way the doc was treated by the airline and the airport security thugs. (Hence the public reaction, obviously! D'oh...)

hepcat: Cops are in a no-win situation...  they're being injured and murdered at an unprecedented rate by citizens who are all 'special snowflakes' and who don't believe that they have to follow the laws that the rest of us do.  Although a lot of people spread this and even more take the bait, it is untrue.

Have you thanked your garbage man lately? You should - he is far more likely to die on the job than a cop. Same for roofers, truck drivers, landscaper workers and airline pilots.

In 2015, 979 truck drivers died on the job. in Construction, 817 died. Cops? just 102 - and that was down a fraction from the previous year while the others were up. Cops didn't make the top 10 most dangerous professions either year.

Against this, cops killed more than 1000 Americans each of those years, and beat and  maimed thousands more.

I would wager that the greatest danger to cops is in their mirrors, that far more kill themselves one way or another - whether it's an immediate suicide or a slow death through crappy diet/lifestyle choices and the resulting diabetes, heart disease and cancer. (I live in a large metropolitan area, and I see very few height/weight proportionate cops these days! Many are conspicuously unfit.)

hepcat: Cops have every right to protect themselves from harm on the job, and as more and more citizens resort to unreasonable and/or violent behavior toward cops, cops (being humans) will naturally have shorter and shorter fuses, and take less and less nonsense from them. Yeah, officer safety is the new mantra. Problem is, it's a lie - the numbers just don't bear this out. See above!

hepcat: In this case, when they've spent ten minutes trying to reason with the guy, and he's not reasonable, at some point you take action to fix the problem. Wow. The cops get to beat anyone who disagrees with them for more than ten minutes? Sounds like North Korea to me...

hepcat: Again whether the cops in this case handled it appropriately will be determined by their investigation... On this, I disagree strenuously. There is a victim, and there are perpetrators. We all know who is who, and it is so clear cut it's essentially mathematical. There is video evidence, and  even United has belatedly admitted to what actually happened. We know how badly he was injured, and if we're being honest with ourselves, we know those injuries weren't the incidental result of being pulled from his seat.

There are only two reasons to "investigate" at this point, and in both instances that would be to fish for eyewitnesses who are lousy observers. Everyone knows that a significant percentage of eyewitnesses are unreliable as hell, and one might want to go hunting for such folks either a) in the hopes of swaying jurors who're afraid to believe what they see with their own eyes, or b) with the intention of justifying an internal affairs rubber stamp of the misconduct.

As to the latter, why is it that police departments are allowed to investigate their own misconduct? People would go crazy if United had a plane crash and was allowed to investigate/exonerate themselves. They would be even angrier if United always blamed the airplane, and never admitted to the slightest pilot error. So, why is it that police departments get to do this day in and day out?

hepcat: That said, much of the behavior I see from cops that I consider to be inappropriate is the failure of supervision; not taking an adequate role in ensuring professionalism among their officers.  Cops perform to the expectations of the administration.  If the administration is lax, so then are the cops.  That part of law enforcement is no different than the Marine Corps.  If you've got a sloppy Company, it's because you've got a sloppy Company Commander.

To anyone who values liberty, this is a profoundly frightening mindset. I suspect (and hope) you said this in all sincerity, but dude - you're describing predators, not guardians!

Regardless, I can slaughter this argument in one sentence: if the cops now on the street can't be expected to do right by society without intensive ongoing supervision, then they are unequivocally the wrong people for the job.

I would bet that most everyone reading this would agree that our country is not headed in a good direction. (I'm equally certain we'd have wildly conflicting opinions as to why, lol...)

I am increasingly persuaded that the fault lies entirely with us. It isn't bad laws, good laws, too many laws or too few. It isn't the wrong president. It isn't congress, or the courts. It isn't corporations, nor is it banks.

Yes, all these institutions are massively corrupt, but at the end of the day they are merely symptoms of our own lack of virtue. We are where we are because we prefer creeping incremental tyranny to the hardship of moral decisions made today.

Plot our current trajectory out another 50 years. Imagine the hell our great grandkids will live in, thanks to us..

 

[IanC]

A couple of things I read today that I didn't know - perhaps y'all already knew that. Firstly, the flight was a Republic Airline plane, contracted by United for it's express flights. All decisions were made by Republic employees, not United. Second, the men who responded were not cops at all. They were Chicago Aviation Authority personnel - probably not much more than mall cops.

I'm not anti cop at all. Blanket anti cop attitude is pretty foolish. BUT, I have seen the overall attitude change a lot in just the past 10-15 years. The new breed of cops are steroided, shaved head, tattooed intimidators - a look that evolved from hard core prison inmates. Just the fact that they feel the need to adopt that image shows the way they view their role. Even the look of today's PDs has changed. Many uniforms look more like tactical gear than civilian police department uniforms. Pants legs tucked into tactical boots? Come on! Even the dog catchers in my town now sport all black uniforms, shaved heads and the tucked into the boots look. WTF. A couple of older cops, I know, agree with me and shake their heads at the new breed that are entering the police forces.

I had a brief stint as a juvenile detention staff person. I never had a violent incident on my unit of 8 kids, but in the units staffed by those with bully boy attitudes and looks, the fights and incidents were constant. Maybe it's the attitude that contributes to the response. I know there are a lot of cops, too, who are trying very hard to counter the tough guy image.

There is a theory I have that will, no doubt be controversial. Many new police hires are Iraq/Afghanistan vets who bring their mindset with them. I can see the need for the 'every citizen is a potential enemy' on the battlefield, but to bring that thinking onto the streets back home is a recipe for disaster. Police departments are the recipients of military surplus too ( I have a theory about that too - that it's not surplus at all, just a way for the military to buy more and more from the arms manufacturers. If it's worn out surplus, you'd destroy it and not keep it in circulation). The effect of military trained personel with military equipment is that of creating micro military units throughout the country. At a time when violent crime is decreasing every year, why the need to show such force? Why does it always have to be so excessive?

I liked the old time cops. Sure, they could take a hooligan behind the dumpster for some on the spot correction, but for the most part they were approachable and more a part of the community. They used to brag that they had never drawn their weapons in their careers. A different time, I suppose.

 

[hepcat]

As someone who thinks a great deal about the state of affairs in both our country and the rest of the world, I am more and more amazed by this incident - it touches on an amazing number of issues that bedevil us these days.

I chose your comments, but there's othing personal here, hepcat. I don't know you and you don't know me. A whole lot of people are making arguments similar to yours - I chose to reply to your post only because these exact statements were made here. My thoughts will be in italics.

To anyone who values liberty, this is a profoundly frightening mindset. I suspect (and hope) you said this in all sincerity, but dude - you're describing predators, not guardians!

Regardless, I can slaughter this argument in one sentence: if the cops now on the street can't be expected to do right by society without intensive ongoing supervision, then   they are unequivocally the wrong people for the job.

I would bet that most everyone reading this would agree that our country is not headed in a good direction. (I'm equally certain we'd have wildly conflicting opinions as to why, lol...)

I am increasingly persuaded that the fault lies entirely with us. It isn't bad laws, good laws, too many laws or too few. It isn't the wrong president. It isn't congress, or the courts. It isn't corporations, nor is it banks.

Yes, all these institutions are massively corrupt, but at the end of the day they are merely symptoms of our own lack of virtue. We are where we are because we prefer creeping incremental tyranny to the hardship of moral decisions made today.

Plot our current trajectory out another 50 years. Imagine the hell our great grandkids will live in, thanks to us..

You're right, we have no personal contact at all, let me first say that I recognize you to be a master wordsmith, and I congratulate you on your ability to make your points; errant though they may be.

Unfortunately I don't have time right now to address each of your responses, but I'll synopsize my reply for you.

First, a cop's job has been described as 99% sheer boredom punctuated by 1% sheer terror; an apt description.  AND the mundane every-day tasks they perform, traffic control, and all of the routine calls they attend to are the 99%.   Society pays them nothing for those times.  They earn their money during that 1%.  They get called when no one else can solve the problem, whatever that problem may be.  Cops are expected to pull the rabbit out the hat EVERY time, get it right and fix the problem in minutes even though the problem has nothing to do with them, is likely not even something they can impact very well, and that the problem was years in the making. 

Your use of the word "predator" in describing law enforcement management is perfectly illustrative of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's essay "On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" which describes very accurately the kind of people who choose to go into the military and law enforcement, and how (and the why of that "how") they become who they are.  It describes what differentiates them from both the predators (wolves) and general population (sheep.)  And THEN he goes on to describe how the sheep see the sheepdogs and shy away from them because they look too much like the wolves until the wolves come, and then they hide behind the sheepdog.  It's a five minute read, and well worth the time, especially for someone with your perspective.

Last... about injuries and fatalities on the job... how many of those trash truck driver deaths were purposeful murder or severe injury on the job by the hand of another human being (excluding traffic accidents, of course?)  How about truck drivers, and other job descriptions you mentioned?  It takes five years for a cop to be a journeyman officer.  Five years worth of OJT before a cop can handle any call that comes along without the assistance of more senior officers.   And that includes on-going training during that time.  How long does it take to become a trash truck driver?  Don't misunderstand...  all of the occupations you've mentioned are necessary, and I have the highest regard for those who do them, as for the most part, I couldn't...  but the skill set to do those jobs is significantly smaller.  And you mention the high rate of suicide among cops.  Why do you think that is?  Could it be that they do an impossible job dealing with people who don't want them there, and don't like anything they do?  Every day of their lives?  Is it any wonder, with such an accepting public, that cops feel alienated, mis-trusting and isolated?

And for those of you who abhor the handling of mental health cases...  while cops (in general) never want to hurt anyone, especially one who isn't in full control of themselves, mental health patients can be some of the most violent and dangerous people there are, for a variety of reasons.  It doesn't happen often, but it does happen that mental health patients attack cops.  In my little town, I had four cases of MEDICAL patients attacking paramedics in one year!

A little bit about why cops investigate themselves; first, they operate under law, best practices, and policy.  Any investigations done hold the officers' actions to the standards of set out by those, NOT the public outcry and outrage.  In these days of populism, many things look "wrong" to the public when in fact, they're well within policy and necessary.  How about citizen's review boards?  Why don't more departments have them?  Well, if you do some research, you'll see that they're just not that effective, long term.  Even the MOST critical review board members begin to side with the cops in most cases, and what you hear from them frequently is "what was wrong with that cop... why did he wait so long to..." whatever.  

And last, your broad statement about the dishonesty and corruption is more than an unfounded indictment, it is the statement of an anarchist.  Most cops and most police departments hold themselves to the highest standards in training, performance, and policing their own ranks.  Of course there are a few bad apples in every barrel, as I said, cops come from the same neighborhood people we associate with.  They're brothers, sisters, children, parents, cousins and neighbors of someone.  They don't come from a specially bred pool of "police people."   You cannot judge a police department by the cops who get themselves in trouble, though... but you CAN and SHOULD judge a police department by the way it handles those cases;  hence my earlier comment about sloppy employees working for sloppy administrators.

Unlike the military where every soldier is under direct supervision, police departments are paramilitary and the officers operate independently under the general supervision of command staff.  It must be that way; street cops have to be able to think critically, consider each situation in light of circumstances, law, best practices, and policy, and then make his or her own decisions about how to handle those situations.  There is no top-down supervision.

Your post above indicates that your analysis connects some dots in a puzzle that don't belong connected.  You've drawn conclusions from data points that can't be lumped together.   I hope I've given you some counter-points to ponder... a different perspective, if you will. 

And yes, what we're seeing today IS symptomatic of many failures on our parts and failures of leadership... a lack of personal integrity by many; the world being run for profit (wars included... Raytheon will be getting a new $60million order for Tomahawk missiles soon,) and a total lack of empathy for anyone who espouses a different point of view. Having those differences of opinion gets us to a stronger place... it doesn't make us enemies. "I never learned anything from a man who agreed with me."

Peace!

 

[hepcat]

A couple of things I read today that I didn't know - perhaps y'all already knew that. Firstly, the flight was a Republic Airline plane, contracted by United for it's express flights. All decisions were made by Republic employees, not United. Second, the men who responded  were not cops at all. They were Chicago Aviation Authority personnel - probably not much more than mall cops.

I'm not anti cop at all. Blanket anti cop attitude is pretty foolish. BUT, I have seen the overall attitude change a lot in just the past 10-15 years. The new breed of cops are steroided, shaved head, tattooed intimidators - a look that evolved from hard core prison inmates.  Just the fact that they feel the need to adopt that image shows the way they view their role.  Even the look of today's PDs has changed.  Many uniforms look more like tactical gear than civilian police department uniforms. Pants legs tucked into tactical boots?  Come on!  Even the dog catchers in my town now sport all black uniforms, shaved heads and the tucked into the boots look. WTF.  A couple of older cops, I know, agree with me and shake their heads at the new breed that are entering the police forces.

I liked the old time cops. Sure, they could take a hooligan behind the dumpster for some on the spot correction, but for the most part they were approachable and more a part of the community. They used to brag that they had never drawn their weapons in their careers. A different time, I suppose.

Ian, you raise good points; however first and foremost... those Chicago Aviation Authority cops are, in fact, certified sworn peace officers just like any other cop.  Don't be mislead.

Second, what happened was 9-11.  For the first time in the history of our country, civilian law enforcement was called on to be military first responders to terrorist incidents (and active shooter incidents, etc.) that are actually military attacks on civilians and infrastructure.  All of the limited budget resources law enforcement had was funneled into this new role; tactics, equipment, and arms capable of countering the threat.  And for the entire country, the hysteria about terrorism made it JOB #1.   Unfortunately, other more important (if mundane) tasks were left behind... riot control training, for example... and with military equipment and uniforms comes a more militant attitude.  Did the cops cause it?  No, I think it was a natural outgrowth of the political and social times.  Was/is it appropriate? No... and that was made abundantly apparent when Ferguson PD rolled out an ant-terrorism response to civil unrest.  Not only was it inappropriate, it was ineffective.

And again, law enforcement hires from the general population... and from those people who apply.  If we don't like the look or attitude of our cops, then we'd best not only be complaining about it, but as citizens, recruiting those around us who we think could change the norm.  Complaining about the hiring pool doesn't change the hiring pool; a fact that Ferguson MO is finding out quickly.

The days of never drawing your weapon are long gone.  I was trained by the last ranks of those guys... the Korean War and early Viet Nam era guys... and I learned SO much from them.  I did my best to pass that along... and those values still live in the police cultures in some places.  But I fear not for long.

 

[IanC]

And again, law enforcement hires from the general population... and from those people who apply.  If we don't like the look or attitude of our cops, then we'd best not only be complaining about it, but as citizens, recruiting those around us who we think could change the norm. 

Yup, we are a society of WWE, violent video games, where 'badass' attitude is respected above all in some quarters, and it's the same (now grown up) pool that is attracted to law enforcement.

BUT, over-all I do believe we are becoming a 'kinder, gentler nation'. I have quite a few friends who are members of 1% motorcycle clubs (a remnant from my leather business. I've sewn the patches for all the notorious clubs) and I'm always surprised by the compassionate memes and posts they share on my Facebook feed.  Kindness towards children, animals and the less fortunate is becoming the things that people aspire to more and more.  Less tolerance for cruelty. It's a good thing.

 

[IanC]

Just to beat the dead horse a little more. It was probably about 20 years ago that I first noticed a new police hire in the city I lived in (Springfield, Mass). He was a skinny dude with hair down to his collar. I often saw him and his fellow officers eating in the diner close to my workplace and thought "this dude ain't going to last" Looked more like he should be hiking the Appalacian trail than serving in a city that often makes the top ten for violent crime. Fast forward and I hear he is one of the most respected members on the force. His hair isn't as long but he's still skinny and he still gives off that mellow vibe. Obviously you can survive duty in a dangerous city without 20 inch biceps.

 

[Gunny]

When it becomes an "Us vs Them" attitude between the Police and your everyday citizen, something is broken. I trust cops as far as being honest for the most part. What confounds me is the inability to fire a proven liar, thief or trigger happy cop. I could cite at least ten instances in the last year or so of cops getting caught doing things a citizen would be jailed for.

I hear cops refer to Joe Shmoe as a civilian. I hate to break it to them but THEY are civilians as well. Taking an oath to enforce the law does not give anyone more rights or privileges then me. Posse Comitatus is the law that is supposed to separate military from police, but that line is very thin now. I see some of the police around here get out of their car and they look like Delta Force Operators or at least they try. That's intimidation. Pure and simple.

I would like to see all our police depts well equipped with whatever type of weapon or gee-whiz new device to fight crime but at what cost? We are closer to a Police State than at any time since the Civil War when Martial Law was declared against the South.

Three young police officers to get a 69 year old man off a plane and they can't do it without brute force? There are ways of controlling someone without breaking his teeth or his nose. That's taught in every Police Academy.

This would not have stayed in the news if the CEO of United had not made his arrogant statements and had admitted someone screwed up. I'm sure their liability insurance company is displeased, as well as the stockholders.

Rob

 

[Ballenxj]

I hear cops refer to Joe Shmoe as a civilian. I hate to break it to them but THEY are civilians as well. Taking an oath to enforce the law does not give anyone more rights or privileges then me. Posse Comitatus is the law that is supposed to separate military from police, but that line is very thin now. I see some of the police around here get out of their car and they look like Delta Force Operators or at least they try. That's intimidation. Pure and simple.

I would like to see all our police depts well equipped with whatever type of weapon or gee-whiz new device to fight crime but at what cost? We are closer to a Police State than at any time since the Civil War when Martial Law was declared against the South.

My Dad among other things like business owner, farmer, etc, was a cop when he was younger. He very carefully explained to me that a cop has no more right's that the average Joe, or Sheila citizen, The main difference is that cops have been trained to handle various situations that a non cop has not. Also, a cop is paid (and trained hopefully) to make citizen arrests.

Second, what happened was 9-11.  For the first time in the history of our country, civilian law enforcement was called on to be military first responders to terrorist incidents (and active shooter incidents, etc.) that are actually military attacks on civilians and infrastructure.  All of the limited budget resources law enforcement had was funneled into this new role; tactics, equipment, and arms capable of countering the threat.  And for the entire country, the hysteria about terrorism made it JOB #1.

This makes sense to me, and hopefully puts it in better perspective to others.
This "Us vs Them" mentality that we see so much of today actually weakens our country against the real predators.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Your use of the word "predator" in describing law enforcement management is perfectly illustrative of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's essay "On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" 

Great article.

 

[cognitive dissonance]

Doesn't it seem strange that in all the different onboard incidents captured on video, the video we see always comes via cell phones.  Surely there must be security cameras on all flights - there are everywhere else.

LOL. Solid state security systems run perfectly for years, then magically "malfunction" at the exact moment corporate liability is proven by the footage.

Then, they start working again.

Those electronic gremlins are real supporters of big business.

 

[Blanch]

Hepcat. That is an excellent article, and worth the read.

I suppose what is left out is the occasional police officer who transforms from sheepdog to wolf. It happens, perhaps as a result of the PTSD some officers get when their tour of duty has been extreme.

My most recent experience with the San Diego county sheriff was beyond my expectations. My generator was stolen while I was boondocking at Anza Borrego for the super bloom. I depend on the generator to run my nebulizer. After taking the theft report his concern was that I would become a medical emergency. He offered to open a substation in the vicinity to get me some clean electric power ( some medical equipment won't run on 12 volt ). I managed on my own and thanked him for the offer. He called the next day to be certain I was still ok. That officer was looking after me in a way I never expected. He was clearly a sheepdog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cognitive dissonance]

I don't rely on the Police for protection. I carry every day. I got a 9mm revolver on my hip as I write. Yes it uses moon clips. I have yet to hear on the news that a LEO has kept anyone from being shot and killed in the Las Vegas Area. Never seen the headline LEO saves people from gunfire. 

No, and you probably won't see that headline anytime soon. But, you will see the headlines about people killed by cops, three times a day.  This is the problem, and cops refuse to see it.

I've been discussing this United incident with a good friend, Bill Scott. He's the father of Erik Scott, who was murdered by Las Vegas cops in 2010. In a farcical kangaroo court coroner's inquest, the cops found themselves blameless, but the coverup was so notorious that it ended up being featured in a documentary film.

The inquest rules were also changed, leading the cops union to arrogantly state that cops would no longer be required to attend inquests!

In much of America, it wasn't always like this. Many others have posted here about the change in cops, who have transitioned from being peace officers to being a paramilitary force in my lifetime. I won't belabor this, but will I flatly state that paramilitary police are incompatible with individual liberty and any semblance of rule of law.

Most folks can't state that as effectively as I, but they feel it in their bones and they know they're right. That's the reason this United Airlines clusterbungle has created such a hue and cry.

Bob has censored other things I've said about cops, claiming I'm bashing them. I'm not. It's not bashing (or, more importantly, libel or slander) when you're telling the truth. 

I believe it has been a disservice to this community to censor this discussion in the past - after all, vehicle dwellers have a far above average chance of police encounters. It only stands to reason we should cultivate an above average awareness of both our rights and the problems in law enforcement.

I want to thank Bob for allowing this thread to continue. I'm sure he doesn't like a bunch of the posts here, including mine.

So, thanks Bob!

cd