Traction, not getting Stuck!

[Ballenxj]

I love my van, even though I haven't started the build out yet. I've been using it as a work truck for supplies.
Here's the deal, it's mostly unloaded at the moment, and when I drove it across a friends yard during a rainy day, it got stuck.
To me, it got stuck way too easy. I was using even pressure on the throttle, had momentum, yet the rear wheels started spinning till I had no momentum. There I was, Stuck!
The first thing I did after getting it unstuck, was research ways to prevent that in the future.
I looked into getting posi traction installed, $900. to $1000.   A set of more aggressive tires for the rear, $450.
Then somebody told me the main problem was that I don't have enough weight over the rear axle. That made sense too. I will incorporate that in my build plans by putting something heavy over the rear axle, like maybe the water supply? Problem with that is as I use the water, it will lose the needed weight.
I'd like to hear some more ideas from you guys on how you would address this problem? Feel free to post your thoughts here.

 

[ArtW]

The Build itself will add weight over the rear axle
Walmart sells Goodyear Wranglers for about $100 a tire, installed,in my area, they are good tires for mild off roading
Judicious use of the parking brake will aid in getting unstuck, in my Polara, i actually cut the E brake cable and rigged it so I could activate either side e brake independently of the other (google Po boy Positraction)
hope that helps

 

[Ballenxj]

Walmart sells Goodyear Wranglers for about $100 a tire, installed,in my area, they are good tires for mild off roading

Thanks Art, I guess I should mention, the tires are "E" rated 10 ply for the weight rating of the van. I'd kind of like to keep them in that range if possible?
That's a funny story about your Polara. Sort of a skid steer action? I can see that working.

 

[AngryVanMan]

A set of tire chains would get you a huge traction bonus even on bald tires, usually real chains run about $100/pair. If you chain up on someone's manicured lawn though.... they might have something to say about it!

The build will help considerably with the weight distribution - the difference between an empty work van and a full one was night and day in inclement conditions.

 

[ArtW]

OK, you have a heavier duty tire than i would have thought
I dunno about skid steer, this is how it works
In an open dif, the power goes to both wheels if they both have the same traction
If one tire loses traction, all the power goes to that wheel
This aids steering action when traction is no issue (true lockers tend to resist steering)
when you tighten the e brake, it tricks the dif into thinking there is more traction, so it more evenly distributes the power
with my setup, I could trick the dif into sending the power to whichever wheel i wanted, so if the right wheel lost traction, I could send power to the left wheel by 'tricking' the dif into thinking the right had plenty of traction

That mod will cause your vehicle to fail an inspection in Texas, unless, like me, you have a friendly stae inspector (in my case, I was a certified state inspector

 

[Ballenxj]

A set of tire chains would get you a huge traction bonus even on bald tires, usually real chains run about $100/pair.  If you chain up on someone's manicured lawn though.... they might have something to say about it!

The build will help considerably with the weight distribution - the difference between an empty work van and a full one was night and day in inclement conditions.

Thanks Angry, no worries on the lawn, my friend has 5 acres of dirt, and allows me to use it as a home base.
The chains are a viable option, but I don't much care having to chain the tires, as I would like to have the van more capable on it's own.
I think everybody is right about the build adding the needed weight. the thing is, I live in a colder climate, so I want to make the van a capable as possible. I wish it was a 4x4.

 

[Spirituallifetime]

I had traction problems with a ranger 4×4, had newer tires on it but the tires would just spin on slick surfaces. I put new shocks on it and it made a huge difference! Also keep some kitty litter in the van in the winter, works great if your stuck on ice!

 

[TMG51]

i actually cut the E brake cable and rigged it so I could activate either side e brake independently of the other (google Po boy Positraction)
hope that helps

That's an interesting thought. What do you use to actuate the two separate brake cables?

 

[highdesertranger]

before everybody gets all excited about the poor mans posi. it's a good way to blow your spider gears into the next state. might not happen right away but it will happen. we used to install turning brakes on dune buggies. turning brakes are the same as a poor mans posi. when this install was done the differential was always modified or it would self destruct. a spacer must be installed on the carrier pin that holds the spiders. imo you are better off installing a posi/locker. highdesertranger

 

[Gary68]

dont go near wet grass,i have been stuck in wet grass a few times,6 inches of mud on a logging road,no prob,get home,unload firewood and get stuck in the yard

 

[GotSmart]

I had traction problems with a ranger 4×4, had newer tires on it but the tires would just spin on slick surfaces. I put new shocks on it and it made a huge difference! Also keep some kitty litter in the van in the winter, works great if your stuck on ice!

Just not the clumping type kitty litter.  That is clay, and slicker than ice.

 

[SternWake]

When I travelled in New Zealand, i bought a small rear wheel drive Nissan Van. One time on Asphalt( bitumen) , I could not back up a hill in dry weather and had to drive down a sidewalk instead.

Later on in same vehicle I could not drive up a mild grassy wet slope and avoid what appeared to be a massive storm approaching from Antarctica, and I loaded the back of the Van with a couple hundred pounds of boulders to find a less exposed place to wait out the storm.

Momentum is everything. Far too many people stop and then turn the wheel and bury the axle.

 

[ArtW]

That's an interesting thought. What do you use to actuate the two separate brake cables?

I used two hand brake handles out of a couple import cars, there was some fabrication involved, I dunno how it could blow the spiders out, all you're doing is adding 'fake traction' to the spinning wheel, by GENTLY applying the brake on that side, so the power will go to the wheel that has traction

However, I made very limited use of it, and HDR does seem to have a more complete knowledge of this stuff than me, so unless there was a misunderstanding of how I was accomplishing this, I'm gonna say my limited use of it was why I never popped a gear

maybe HDR will explain how that could cause a catastrophic failure of the spiders

An I will repeat, your vehicle will NOT pass most state's inspection with this mod
A proper LSD or locker WOULD be a better choice

 

[Ballenxj]

dont go near wet grass,i have been stuck in wet grass a few times,6 inches of mud on a logging road,no prob,get home,unload firewood and get stuck in the yard

The lesson learned here? Unload=remove weight, get stuck.
Yeah, the place I got stuck was an unknown to me, but known to my friend that owns the property as a mud bog when soaked.
Luckily my friend owns a tractor as well. That's what it took to get me out.

 

[steamjam1]

My observation: Best thing to do is get a decent set of tires, and either an LSD, or a locker.... Don't weld the diff!

Anyways, My Ford Hightop is a 1/2 ton. It rides on LT235/75/15 "all terrain" tires (load Range C). My G/F has a 1 ton Ford F350 and cab-over with the same brand and model of tire, just 225/75/16 (Load range E) She as an open diff (Dana 60), weighs slightly more, and has a much more powerfull engine.

But I have an LSD in my van (Ford 9"). We have to drive the same dirt road to get to, and out of our camp spot. When it rains, it gets very soup like muddy. She almost always gets stuck. I never do.

 

[Ballenxj]

My observation: Best thing to do is get a decent set of tires, and either an LSD, or a locker.... Don't weld the diff!

This is what I'm leaning towards. I've already consulted with the shop that specializes in differentials. He gave me a couple options, one of which is installing a Detroit Locker. That's where I got the $900. quote.
Do you tow your GF out with your van?
PS, do you run the mud and snow tires all around, or just on the rear like I'm considering?

 

[steamjam1]

This is what I'm leaning towards. I've already consulted with the shop that specializes in differentials. He gave me a couple options, one of which is installing a Detroit Locker. That's where I got the $900. quote.
Do you tow your GF out with your van?
PS, do you run the mud and snow tires all around, or just on the rear like I'm considering?

Detroit makes a good locker. You just gotta make sure there is enough weight over the rear axle to make it effective. Always get all-terrain/mud/snow tires in sets, not pairs. Whats the point of having extra traction in the rear if you can't steer the front? I'd rather get stuck then slide off a muddy road.

I don't tow with my van haha its just a 1/2 ton. I just go borrow an excavator and a tow strap.

 

[ArtW]

If it's a true Detroit Locker i wouldn't do that on a mostly street driven van
those are 'true lockers' designed for racing and serious off roading, and when operated in normal driving, are noisy as hell and annoying, as the gears ratchet, clatter, and, when you straighten out give a loud, disturbing 'THUMP!'
Just ask the owner of any first generation Shelby GT350
I'd choose a LSD or an ARB air locker, either of which should be more pleasant to live with, and less expensive, than a true Detroit Locker

 

[steamjam1]

If it's a true Detroit Locker i wouldn't do that on a mostly street driven van
those are 'true lockers' designed for racing and serious off roading, and when operated in normal driving, are noisy as hell and annoying, as the gears ratchet, clatter, and, when you straighten out give a loud, disturbing 'THUMP!'
Just ask the owner of any first generation Shelby GT350
I'd choose a LSD or an ARB air locker, either of which should be more pleasant to live with, and less expensive, than a true Detroit Locker

Yeah thats also true. The Detroit is more meant for the serious off road rig, rather then the street driven daily driver. If I saw ALOT of off-road, I'd install a locker. If all I expected was the occasional fire road, or winter snow muddy driving, then an LSD will do just fine. The LSD is quieter, and doesn't put as much strain on the axle as a locker would. (all you GM 10-bolt owners know what I mean!)

 

[Ballenxj]

Detroit makes a good locker. You just gotta make sure there is enough weight over the rear axle to make it effective. Always get all-terrain/mud/snow tires in sets, not pairs. Whats the point of having extra traction in the rear if you can't steer the front? I'd rather get stuck then slide off a muddy road.

Well then, the $450. tire estimate just jumped to $900. Plus the locker, now I'm looking at $1800.