To keep the fridge and generator or not to keep them.

[masterplumber]

This is just an idea to throw out there. Since you already have the smaller batteries, why not incorporate them into the trailer, just to run a couple LED lights and maybe a 12v fan. I think they would handle that ok. especially if you were to maybe double the solar you already have and mount it on the trailer. Then work toward a complete new system to run the fridge, that is mounted to the tow vehicle. A system sized more along the lines of what SternWake suggested. That way the trailer and tow vehicle can operate independently of each other. Very handy when boondocking in one place for a week or so, as you don't have to keep reconnecting the trailer if you leave it in camp to run to the store or something. Just an idea to use what you have, while expanding your systems to match your needs.

 

[SoulRaven]

This is just an idea to throw out there. Since you already have the smaller batteries, why not incorporate them into the trailer, just to run a couple LED lights and maybe a 12v fan. I think they would handle that ok. especially if you were to maybe double the solar you already have and mount it on the trailer. Then work toward a complete new system to run the fridge, that is mounted to the tow vehicle. A system sized more along the lines of what SternWake suggested. That way the trailer and tow vehicle can operate independently of each other. Very handy when boondocking in one place for a week or so, as you don't have to keep reconnecting the trailer if you leave it in camp to run to the store or something. Just an idea to use what you have, while expanding your systems to match your needs.

Well, I have decided that the generator is not going with me on this trip. I have ordered a 100 watt panel kit with 30 amp controller, and a 100 ah deep cycle battery. I am starting to put the 30 watt and two 35ah batteries in or on the cargo carrier of the Runaway trailer. When the other batteries and panel kit arrive I will put them in the Escape as also suggested. Those do seem like good ideas. I will post a few pics when I have it completed. I don't know how professional looking it will be but I hope it will serve my purposes.
Since adding more of the solar, I am now thinking that the generator might be unnecessary, at least for now. It takes up a lot of room, adds weight to the setup of towing the trailer, getting and carrying fuel, positioning it, and aggravating my camping neighbors when it's running. Also as I am increasing the solar,  the generator is looking more and more distant as I do.
Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[AuricTech]

I would look at a dedicated 100W panel for your present 70Ah battery bank (you could still use your present system's controller for that).  Meanwhile, for your Escape-mounted PV system, were it my PV system, I would want  to have at least 150W of PV panel (and I would prefer 200W of PV panel, since conditions are rarely ideal) for a 100Ah battery.

It still seems as though you're not building your PV system as a system.  As with any system, it's best to start with requirements (in this case, how many Amp-hours your system must provide).  Once you have defined the system's requirements, the rest is largely a matter of plugging in numbers.

For example, you're looking at buying a 30-Amp solar charge controller.  That makes sense, if you expect to install 400W or so of PV panels.  If your planned PV system won't exceed 200W of PV panels, then a 30-Amp charge controller is overpriced overkill.  Also, keep in mind that an MPPT charge controller is unlikely to be cost-effective for a PV system under around 400W of PV panels.

Look at what your system needs to power, then build a balanced system to meet those needs.

 

[SoulRaven]

I would look at a dedicated 100W panel for your present 70Ah battery bank (you could still use your present system's controller for that).  Meanwhile, for your Escape-mounted PV system, were it my PV system, I would want  to have at least 150W of PV panel (and I would prefer 200W of PV panel, since conditions are rarely ideal) for a 100Ah battery.

It still seems as though you're not building your PV system as a system. 

You are probably right, I have been tacking this thing together one piece at a time( kinda like the Johnny Cash song), but I am trying to keep things as minimal, small and light weight as possible. I don't have a lot of room to deal with . I'm afraid of filling it up with too many things, then being crowded and uncomfortable. I already made a few mistakes going in....like the generator and huge fridge. But besides the fridge, my power needs are small. I also don't have any place to mount the panels when traveling. Yes, I could mount them on the little trailer but I also want them to be portable.
I got the little Runaway because I thought it would be nice to have a place to stretch out in at night to sleep more comfortably. Much better than the car. I don't want to negate that with filling it up with things.
I am very new at the solar thing, and am learning as I go. Making mistakes is very aggravating and time consuming. I have even thought about scrapping the whole thing and idea of the trailer, selling it and it's components that I have tried to add.....and just go back to doing the car dwelling. Time will tell.
Thank you for giving me the advise and suggestions.

 

[AuricTech]

Given that your mission statement includes PV panel portability, you might want to look at using bendable PV panels, such as the Renogy RNG-100DB 100W panel.  They're lightweight enough (4 pounds each) to be easily set up or taken down as needed.  One for the trailer's battery bank, plus two for your vehicle's house battery, and you should be set.  To connect them to your charge controller, you could use Anderson Power Pole connectors.  That way, you could easily connect and disconnect them as needed.

 

[SoulRaven]

Given that your mission statement includes PV panel portability, you might want to look at using bendable PV panels, such as the Renogy RNG-100DB 100W panel.  They're lightweight enough (4 pounds each) to be easily set up or taken down as needed.  One for the trailer's battery bank, plus two for your vehicle's house battery, and you should be set.  To connect them to your charge controller, you could use Anderson Power Pole connectors.  That way, you could easily connect and disconnect them as needed.

Well, I already have the panels ( the 30 watt  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161332920901?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT here now, and the 100 watt  http://www.ebay.com/itm/301339751896?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT  ordered and on the way), so, I am going to have to make them work somehow. I know that I keep throwing money at this thing and not really doing what I should. But, I will have to deal with what I have and make the best of it. I don't see any way of mounting these on my vehicle or small trailer (and right now, I refuse to do that).
I could try to put them on top of the cargo boxes on the cargo trailer with some sort of easy attach and unattached system to get some sort of use of them while I drive. But I probably will have to just put them out when I get to where I am going and hope for the best. All just ideas right now. 

 

[AuricTech]

Fortunately, the bendable panel to which I linked above is a very close voltage and amperage match to the 100W panel you've ordered. As such, when you're ready to expand your system, it's pretty much plug-and-play.

 

[SoulRaven]

Fortunately, the bendable panel to which I linked above is a very close voltage and amperage match to the 100W panel you've ordered.  As such, when you're ready to expand your system, it's pretty much plug-and-play.

I will keep that in mind. I am going to see how things pan out with what I have now. If it becomes necessary to add more I will. The only thing I don't like about the flexible panels is that they lay flat against the roof or where ever they are. I am concerned about the heat aspect of that. Would the extra heat of no air circulating under them cause them to fail or maybe shorten their life?

 

[SoulRaven]

I finished installing the batteries on the Runaway today. I had thought of different ways of doing it. I didn't want to put them inside so I put them in one of the cargo storage boxes I have on the trailer. It is a pretty simple setup . I just put the batteries wired in parallel in the box, ran another line from, the box to the rear of the trailer under its belly, drilled up through the floor in the rear corner where I already have the 110 going up from the previous install of it. Then I ran it up through the floor to connect it with a 12 volt power plug mounted on the rear shelf next to the 110 power outlet. So, now I have 12 volt permanently and the 110 is live when ever I turn on the inverter that is in the box with the batteries or plugged in to commercial power. Here is a link to more pics of the way I did things  https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...63&authkey=!AJNuFhW7OiLYu4M&ithint=folder,jpg . Also, I bolted the cargo boxes to the cargo carrier. This way I don't have to strap them down every time.
Now.....where to put the 30 watt solar panel to keep them charged while moving. I was thinking about putting it on top of the cargo box with some sort of quick removal system. I will see.

 

[masterplumber]

Steve, do you have a 7 pin trailer plug on your tow vehicle? If so you should already have 12v wired at least to the tounge of the trailer. If you're not sure I'm positive the manufacture can tell you. I would run a wire from there to the positive post on one battery, and a ground wire from the negative post on the other battery (Balance the load). That way the tow vehicle will charge the batteries while driving, and probably get them to a higher state of charge more quickly. Most trailer supply places can also proving a diode to hook inline so the tow vehicle can't drain back down the trailer battery, not required but it makes it handy to not have to unplug at every overnight stop. I'd still mount the panels, for when you're staying in one place and taking the tow Vehicle to explore. I'd mount them on the roof, but be careful that they are in a place that won't have shadows cast on them but any storage boxes I think you mentioned were up there. Keep plugging away and you'll get there. I know sometimes set backs can be discouraging, but I always like to say, "if it was easy anybody could do it".

 

[SoulRaven]

Steve, do you have a 7 pin trailer plug on your tow vehicle? If so you should already have 12v wired at least to the tounge of the trailer. If you're not sure I'm positive the manufacture can tell you. I would run a wire from there to the positive post on one battery, and a ground wire from the negative post on the other battery (Balance the load). That way the tow vehicle will charge the batteries while driving, and probably get them to a higher state of charge more quickly. Most trailer supply places can also proving a diode to hook inline so the tow vehicle can't drain back down the trailer battery, not required but it makes it handy to not have to unplug at every overnight stop. I'd still mount the panels, for when you're staying in one place and taking the tow Vehicle to explore. I'd mount them on the roof, but be careful that they are in a place that won't have shadows cast on them but any storage boxes I think you mentioned were up there. Keep plugging away and you'll get there. I know sometimes set backs can be discouraging, but I always like to say, "if it was easy anybody could do it".

That is a real good idea. I only have the 4 pin connector on my vehicle. It is a factory tow package. Someone told me that even though there is only a 4 pin that in the main wiring harness going back they usually include a connector to plug in a 7 pin. I have briefly looked under the vehicle but haven't seen anything like that.
My trailer is a little  Runaway with a small cargo rack on the front. Which is where I have the cargo boxes with the batteries in the small one. I really don't want to put the panels on the roof because of the aesthetics of leaving the roof free of things. Along with having air drag which would result in lower mpg. Also I want them to  be portable to be able to remove them when I would be in a boondocking situation for a few days or even weeks. I wouln't want to have the trailer sitting in the sun heating up.
Thank you for your encouragement. I suffer somewhat from depression and the aggravations from things like this sometimes makes me want to pitch the whole thing and forget it. But I will try to hang in.

 

[GotSmart]

One step at a time~~~ 


The modern panel mounts will only raise things about 2 1/2 inches.  No real air drag involved.  

Upgrading to a 7 pin would be a great investment.  Just remember to fuse any power lines.

When I get ready to chuck things, I walk away and take a break.  Nothing like a cold drink and a good song to clear my tension.  This has kept me from making mistakes and breaking things.  

After 18 months, I am still building and changing things.  

 

[VJG1977]

I did not have time to read the whole post but you might want to take a look at this link.

http://www.fordescape.org/forum/diy-garage/26297-7-pin-wiring.html

They did mention  http://www.etrailer.com/t1-2014_Ford_Escape.htm

Vic

 

[SternWake]

trying to charge a battery through the trailer wiring works, but is very slowly due to the lengths of wiring involved.  There is so much voltage drop, that the voltage potential is not enough to cause significant current to flow.


In Australia, many like to power an inverter off the engine battery, run an AC extension cord back to the trailer, and use a battery charger back there.  Even with the inverter inefficiency, and the charger inefficiency, the batteries get more charging current.  AC has very little voltage drop.

9 times out of 10, when people have issues with their signal lighting, it is a trailer wiring harness that is at fault, and usually where the original wiring was tapped into by the person installing it.  Factory trailer wiring should be good in this regard, just don't expect much current to pass thorough it to charge a battery in the trailer

One could have dedicated wiring to charge trailer batteries using thicker wiring and a quality connector, but this much copper costs a lot, and weighs a lot

 

[masterplumber]

trying to charge a battery through the trailer wiring works, but is very slowly due to the lengths of wiring involved.  There is so much voltage drop, that the voltage potential is not enough to cause significant current to flow.


In Australia, many like to power an inverter off the engine battery, run an AC extension cord back to the trailer, and use a battery charger back there.  Even with the inverter inefficiency, and the charger inefficiency, the batteries get more charging current.  AC has very little voltage drop.

9 times out of 10, when people have issues with their signal lighting, it is a trailer wiring harness that is at fault, and usually where the original wiring was tapped into by the person installing it.  Factory trailer wiring should be good in this regard, just don't expect much current to pass thorough it to charge a battery in the trailer

One could have dedicated wiring to charge trailer batteries using thicker wiring and a quality connector, but this much copper costs a lot, and weighs a lot

Ya, definitely check it out. I'm mostly familiar with truck towing packages, and my current one and the one before it had 10 gauge wire. The pig tail I used on my trailer also has 10 gauge for the power wire, and I ran 10 gauge from the junction box to the battery. Not as good as 6 or 8 gauge, but still better than 14 or 16 that they usually have for the lights. And it is pretty long, of course my truck is considerably longer than an Escape. As for a battery charger, if you go that route just be sure the one you buy puts out enough voltage. Many of the cheaper ones only put out around 13.5 volts which is no where near enough to fully charge pretty much any battery, much less an AGM.There are good ones out there though, just do some research before you buy. 

 

[fredcdobbs]

For 6 years I did the cooler with block ice thing in this lifestyle.

My first fridge, a Norcold, lasted 5 years due to low refrigerant levels and its non rechargeable design.  So I was forced to go back to a cooler with block ice for nearly 3 weeks until my Vitrifrigo c51is arrived.


It was not fun relearning how to best utilize the cooler, or having to rearrange my schedule just to go get ice to my food would not spoil.  I'd found many places did not carry block ice, and I'd have to buy cubed ice, and then again in 2 to 3 more days.  One place I where i found block  Ice, rang it up alone and it was $5.39.  I left it on the conveyor and walked out muttering vile curses and terrifying other shoppers.

The emptying of stinky cooler water, the issue of Ice itself taking up room in the cooler, having to go out to purchase the ice, sometimes going out only to replenish the ice really irritated me.  Wet food stuffs, failed zip lock baggies filled with cooler water....grrrrrrr.  I'd employed 'buckets' inside the cooler to keep water out of food stuffs, and my IR thermometer revealed temps well over 40 within this bucket, even when the Ice level was well up the sides.

Those 3 weeks without a fridge really irritated me, and at the beginning of week 3 I gave up on the Ice and food that needed to be kept cold.  I was buying meals individually, and eating less healthy, and spending lots more money doing so. 

Now one can go all minimalist, or not, in regards to their diet and preserving food.  I've done this in the past, powdered milk, canned foods, ect.  No thanks.  I hate being hungry and dreading making the food I have with me.

I love having a fridge and more than enough solar to power it.  I never have to worry about it, never have to go out just to get ice, never worry about wasting food, emptying cooler water, compromised ziplock baggies, or waste the expense of the ice itself or the cost of gas required to get it and only it, when it had melted and food was at risk of spoiling.

Now with Adequate solar and an efficient compressor fridge, I have enough electricity for luxuries, and the fridge is always there and under 36F, and I can make my own ice.

The OP just does not have enough Solar, or enough battery, or enough recharging ability for their system to every be 'forgettable'

Funny how a minimalist approach can in some cases, cause so much more work and save no money.

Thanks Stern, you said it all regarding ice chest vs fridge/freezer. I did the cooler thing last summer because the built-in Dometic HM series 3 way is useless in high heat and barely passable in normal weather. I'm in my 3rd day with the Whynter 65 quart dual zone and love it. But I'm struggling with power. I have a 270 watt solar with MPPT controller and so far can barely make it through the day, although the temperature in the van the last 2 days has been as high as 118 degrees! Outside temp here in L.A. has been hovering at 100 degrees. I set the freezer at 15 degrees and the fridge at 48, put it on eco mode and that seems to help, it doesn't run non-stop like it did with the settings a few degrees lower. I think eventually I want to figure out a way to get another 100 watts or so solar. In addition to the fridge, I use a an Endless Breeze fan set at medium throughout the day and night, laptop a few hours, cell charge, and LED light, and a Vitamix blender for a smoothie for about 2 minutes. That puts me to the edge. I end the day at about 12.7 volts and wake the next day at about 12.3-12.4. I had to stop using the micro for the 5 minutes a day I was using it. But I'll take the added energy stress to enjoy the relief that the fridge brings me. It's a life changer just the way the solar panel was.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Thanks Stern, you said it all regarding ice chest vs fridge/freezer. I did the cooler thing last summer because the built-in Dometic HM series 3 way is useless in high heat and barely passable in normal weather. I'm in my 3rd day with the Whynter 65 quart dual zone and love it. But I'm struggling with power. I have a 270 watt solar with MPPT controller and so far can barely make it through the day, although the temperature in the van the last 2 days has been as high as 118 degrees! Outside temp here in L.A. has been hovering at 100 degrees. I set the freezer at 15 degrees and the fridge at 48, put it on eco mode and that seems to help, it doesn't run non-stop like it did with the settings a few degrees lower. I think eventually I want to figure out a way to get another 100 watts or so solar. In addition to the fridge, I use a an Endless Breeze fan set at medium throughout the day and night, laptop a few hours, cell charge, and LED light, and a Vitamix blender for a smoothie for about 2 minutes. That puts me to the edge. I end the day at about 12.7 volts and wake the next day at about 12.3-12.4. I had to stop using the micro for the 5 minutes a day I was using it. But I'll take the added energy stress to enjoy the relief that the fridge brings me. It's a life changer just the way the solar panel was.

Pick up some insulation boards and duct tape at a building supply and add insulation to the outside.  Just be sure you leave the air ducts clear.

Regards
John

 

[jimindenver]

Well this sucks.

Last trip I was playing with the IR temperature gun and shot the RV fridge when Honey had it open. Holy crud, it was over 50 in there with over a weeks worth of food still. I figured it was over loading because we have never had a issue so we loaded up a cooler while Honey went for ice. Even reducing the load never helped and it never really got cooled down again. That's why I have been looking into a second fridge.

Yesterday I went out and fired it back up expecting it to be nice and cool today. Instead the thermometer read 56 degrees. now the thermistor had fallen out of the holder that keeps it near the fins but it should have been warmer farther away from the fins. We put it back in place and will give it another day. I checked the vent from the ground during the trip and know the burner is on. I'll look from the top tomorrow if things don't improve. (I knew I was keeping that ice box for something)

 

[highdesertranger]

Mr Fred C Dobbs, something isn't right with your system. I run 2 Engel 40qts off of 2 marine batts and 175 watts of solar and have plenty left over. my batts never get close to 30% discharge(70% charged). maybe your batteries have been compromised.

Jim you do realize that the infrared guns cannot measure air temp. the beam has to hit something and bounce back. what was the beam hitting when it read 50? highdesertranger

 

[jimindenver]

Mr Fred C Dobbs,  something isn't right with your system.  I run 2 Engel 40qts off of 2 marine batts and 175 watts of solar and have plenty left over.  my batts never get close to 30% discharge(70% charged).  maybe your batteries have been compromised.

Jim you do realize that the infrared guns cannot measure air temp.  the beam has to hit something and bounce back.  what was the beam hitting when it read 50?  highdesertranger

Food when we were on the trip. Today there is a fridge thermometer in the fridge.

It's been decades since I laid a hand on these so I did some checking around. Tomorrow I will test the thermistor, check the flame and clean the tube is needed, and check the condensate tube.

considering the trails we use, a general check of all the connections might be in order too.