Thoughts on panels, solar generators and real batteries

[MGfromBC]

I just finished reading all 23 pages of the first thread in this section; (How much solar do I need?"  I don't have any questions. 

I do, however,  have some observations that might be helpful.

There were several mentions of the devices often referred to as solar generators.  The ads for these things often show families running multiple electrical appliances off of them when, in truth, they store very little electricity in their tiny lithium ion batteries.  Not only do the photos deliberately misinform people who may be underinformed, they have another trick too.  They talk about the massive watt hours (Wh) the batteries hold while the rest of the battery world talks about amp hours (Ah).  When you divide the numbers they give by 12 they don't look so big any more.

I'm not saying that these things aren't useful.  I just think that many people don't really understand what they are getting and that maybe we can help them.  How much power do you need?  Enough!  If a solar generator is enough, go for it.

I do have another suggestion for people who are hesitant about the math and electricity but are willing to do some DIY installation  work.  Lots of marine and fishing places as well as Amazon have battery boxes that you can put your deep cycle battery in and all the connections are already there.

Here are some examples from Amazon.

Amazon.com : trolling battery box smart inverter solar portable

MG

 

[highdesertranger]

What amazes me is these people getting away with calling these things generators. Talk about false advertising. Another one that amazes me is the tiny little portable Air Conditioners and how they have all these wild claims about their ability to cool a room or a house. I thought there were laws against this stuff. Highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

Truth in advertising, liable and defamation of character law suits seem to have just been done away with, otherwise no one would dare make the claims they do. I can remember people that made a false claim about a product loosing their business to people that bought their products that didn't live up to the claims in court. Seems like no one is held accountable for what they say these days, sad.

 

[RvNaut]

They are a partial replacement for a fossil fuel generator, but use solar to recharge.. and yeah.. they are not a replacement for a standard generator we are all accustomed to. If all you need is to power a few things, they are better than nothing.

It is too easy to build a real solar system. So much good info out there. the crop of SolarGs are toys.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have a seaside resort in Southern Arizona I will sell you...

 

[ldsreliance]

My favorite are the videos on Youtube claiming that gas generators are dead and then championing some portable power station from Milwaukee or DeWalt or Jackery or any of the Chinese brands out there.

I have at least 12 of these power stations in my house (from reviewing them on my Youtube channel... I did not pay for any of them) and I can definitively say that during the Texas winter power outages this past winter, my gas generator was the only thing keeping us above 55F and able to boil water to sanitize it. None of them, even the bigger ones I have from Bluetti or Jackery, were able to run any size space heater or truly critical appliance.

Sure, lights and recharging electronic devices are nice. But these are NOT that useful in true emergencies or for daily off grid living unless you are willing to go back to nearly the stone ages in terms of quality of life.

 

[tx2sturgis]

You know...we can pick and choose our words 'properly' or we can use the words and phrases that make no sense and yet, everyone understands them.

I feel the same way when I see the term 'diesel heater'....they don't HEAT...diesel. They HEAT...AIR. (and sometimes engine coolant)

No matter, every youtuber with a video about these 'chinese diesel heaters' and half the population of the USA calls them 'diesel heaters'.

In the trucking and transportation industry where the original bunk heaters like Webasto (and other brands like Eberspacher) originated, they are called a 'bunk heater'...because that is exactly what they do...heat up your bunk area. 

If you walked into a truck maintenance shop and asked a mechanic to look at the diesel heater he would pop the hood and look at your 'fuel heater'...which is the fuel-water separator which usually has a warm fuel loop and sometimes a 12v heating element to help...you guessed it....heat up your diesel before it heads back into the fuel tanks thru the fuel return loop. This is done in cold climates to help diesel from gelling. THIS is a true....diesel heater.

Of course...I know I can't change the world when it comes to youtuber RV and van 'diesel heaters'...any more than we can change the phrase 'solar generator'...it's just wrong....so that makes it...right!

Dangit....  :dodgy:

 

[nature lover]

Have you ever seen a boardwalk, or an horse fly?

 

[highdesertranger]

NL they aren't trying to sell you a flying horse, at least I hope not. Highdesertranger

 

[wayne49]

That is a diesel fuel heater.

A heating element in a diesel engine block could be a diesel heater.

Regular people also refer to propane heaters and electric heaters. Not at all concerned about the process that converts the energy source to heat, whether it be molecules, neutrons, or electrons.

The word generator now refers to a generic box that provides electrical power.

Don't worry about words, soon there will only be emojis used for all communication.

Strangest "generator" product display piece was Bluetti's image of a fashionably dressed, affluent, young woman in a custom designer kitchen, using a Bluetti box to power an expensive looking blender. Meanwhile, the kitchen was brightly lit by the regular house lights.

 

[MGfromBC]

As I said in the beginning, the "solar generators" may be more than enough for some people.  My problem is the deception and the probable confusion they add to people who are just getting started and trying to figure things out.  I think we owe it to people to be clear about what they do and don't do and help them to understand.

The other thing I mentioned is that some people are just getting started, willing to do some DIY, but more than a little anxious about figuring out wire sizes, fuses, switches, plugs, outlets, distances, polarity, inverters, chargers, charge controllers - did I miss any.  These smooth, pretty boxes seem to take the guesswork out of it.  

I posted a link to smart trolling battery boxes on Amazon.  By comparison, they look a bit like something put together in someone's garage.  On the other hand, once you install your deep cell battery most of the work is done.  Plugs for panels, charge controllers, meters, outlets, breakers and a multitude of other things are available.  I've only recently started looking at these but if I was helping someone who wanted something for more than an occasional weekend I think I'd steer them this way rather than toward the pretty boxes.

Right now my car has a deep cycle, isolator, invertor and a few other gadgets and the next step might be a panel.  Since I foresee a step to something just a little larger in the not to distant future, I'm even looking closer at them myself.  

On a dollar for dollar comparison to the pretty boxes they seem far ahead.  They seem a reasonable comparison to DIY, especially if you want something simple to hook up and install and doesn't require much space.

Here's a link to the US company that makes most of the boxes on the Amazon link

Amazon.com: Cutting Edge Power

MG

 

[ldsreliance]

I am going to disagree that those are comparable to DIY. With DIY you can get all the components that you want and you know the quality and specs for each. If you want to use Blue Sea Systems switches and terminals and Victron gauges and a Whistler inverter, you can do that. You can also control how it is laid out so that the outlets face a certain way or face the ventilation fan a certain direction. You can control the specs of the charge controller and what what gauge wire to use. And on and on.

IMO, that particular box is quite expensive for what you get (PWM, 450W max input, cheap 1500W inverter, thin gauge plastic box) and has pretty poor warranties (1 year for inverter and the entire unit, 2 years for charge controller). Not to mention if you choose the lithium battery add-on they are only warranted for 3 years, which is well below industry average.

 

[MGfromBC]

What I've been trying to say about them is that for someone who is new and doesn't know all the technology and terms and what works with what, they might be a MUCH BETTER option than the pretty boxes.

MG

 

[ldsreliance]

For sure! I definitely agree with that. I always tell newbies that they are for sure going to break some components or make a bad decision on choosing a model or something on their first system. So go cheap, small, and simple on your first little starter system while you learn. Then go bigger and better later. So the product you linked to would be something decent for people to learn with. But I wouldn't buy something like that for daily off-grid use.