The cat's out of the bag

josephusminimus · Jan 6, 2013

Angeli:  I have no argument with RV Kitty.  RV Kitty has an argument with me, and the way my cats and I choose to live.  Extremism rears its head when a person asserts a judgemental viewpoint regarding the behaviors of others if the viewpoint doesn't involve a consensus, a majority opinion, even a widely held opinion.  There's absolutely no evidence to suggest RV Kitty's insistent opinion is any of those in the geographies I've lived in, or plan to visit.  However, my cats and I are willing to continue living as we live, even if ours was the extremist position. As for the sexism, my cats are all neutered and I do my best to treat them equally in all matters.  I merely try to avoid human beings with overweening sensitivities regarding gender.

McBe · Jan 6, 2013

Jack, I don't know if you're familiar with Shalyard's blog @ <a href="http://www.shalyard.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.shalyard.blogspot.com/</a>,  but he travels with two cat companions out in the wilds and has lots of pictures on the site.  The cats  seem to really enjoy the lifestyle.  <a style="margin-right: 1em; margin-left: 1em;" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vHGjt57o3NE/UOLnqF167TI/AAAAAAAABjg/L4ewMnbQvng/s1600/outwalkin_I_10.gif" rel="nofollow"><img class="bbc_img" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vHGjt57o3NE/UOLnqF167TI/AAAAAAAABjg/L4ewMnbQvng/s320/outwalkin_I_10.gif"></a>

akrvbob · Jan 6, 2013

I'm sad, however to see the sexist comments are running rampant again. "Angry two-legged vocal felines.."  REALLY? What's up with this place lately.

Angeli, that comment was made by a woman, not by a man. Is it sexist if it's made by the same sex? Or is it just a self-deprecating joke? I often make a joke at the expense of men but I don't mean to belittle them, it's just a joke. Joking on the internet is always risky. We depend so much on visual and verbal clues it is hard for the true meaning of something to come across. We can eliminate the problem by banning joking, but I  think we would all suffer more from it's loss than we will gain. I think this has been a good thread. People have very different views of something they feel very strongly and passionately about. It's skated close to becoming harsh but everybody has pulled back and remained respectful, much to everbodies credit. I think Windy (Where_the_Wind Blows) was just trying to interject some humor and relieve some tension. Her post was very balanced seeing both sides of the issue. Her humor isn't for everybody but I am certain it was meant with very good intentions and from a very good heart! I even thought it was funny!!!! Overall I think this thread is a tribute to the health and open-mindedness of the forum and my answer to "What is up with this place lately" is that it is alive, well and healthy! Bob

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 6, 2013

Bob, you are correct no harm was meant, ...LOL I think Jack could hold his own in a room full of angry women...not saying he would want to, but I can see him thinking "challenge accepted".....  Yup, I have a wicked (at times) sense of humor....sorry bout that! I do see both sides of this debate.... both valid. Both come with ups and down sides.... in the end whatever you choose to do is your right to do it and your responsibly to handle the outcome.

josephusminimus · Jan 7, 2013

Thanks McBee.  I'll have a looksee.  Nice pic of the two cats.  These with me are a lot more boring-colored than those.

josephusminimus · Jan 7, 2013

Windy:  One of the blessings these two older cats and a couple of others I had around the time these came into my life brought with them was a gradual growth of self-doubt, circumspection and restraint in dealing with them.  It's one of the ways they've paid for all the trouble they've been through the years. Nothing compares to living with a herd of cats to provide a person with an acute perception of subtle and not-so-subtle bullyings, baitings, manipulations, power games, pretended slights, offenses, injustices, and the reality that everything's not always as it appears at first glance. As nearly as I can tell they're as aware deliberate in their behaviors and motivations as humans are unconscious of theirs, running on gut feel and autopilot.  A human being driving an RV with a community of cats inside ought to be immune to anything a mere human community can offer up in the way of challenges.

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 7, 2013

I hear ya Jack, I think the problem with cats is that there is no argument to be made, cats do as they please and humans deal with it!

angeli · Jan 7, 2013

Hi Bob, You know how much I appreciate you and your work.  However, yes a comment can be sexist if made by the gender it denigrates.  Just as a comment can be racist if it is made by one of the race is denigrates.  Or anti-Semitic even if made by someone of Jewish ancestry.  The problem comes with the state of mind that objectifies the humans it chooses to try to disempower by restricting their humanity.  And I agree that humor is difficult on the internet, which is why I offend many people regularly.  <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"> Jack, I just don't see why you are being so insulting.  I don't see the need for it.  'Overweening sensitivity regarding gender' sounds nice and fancy but is simply rude, being both dismissive and downputting.  Bless you.  I generally enjoy your posts, but you are out of line there.  A flair for the written word, just like a nice dance style, is no substitute for content.

akrvbob · Jan 8, 2013

Angeli, I've concluded that we are in these grown-up bodies but deep down we are each and every one of us just terrified, lonely, little children looking for someone to love us. Sometimes that child lashes out in fear, anger and resentment. The more we can see beyond the behavior and see the person, the happier we will all be. That doesn't mean we overlook bad behavior but we do try to take the whole into account. There is a real danger on focusing the individual words and sentences in a forum on the internet and not at the person. It's so easy to hate and condemn words but we forget that the words have a real breathing person behind them. The reason I love my dog so much is that he never condemns me or is mean to me no matter how big a jerk I am being at the moment. If he treated me the way I deserved, he would have mauled me a long time ago! When I look at ALL the  hearts who have posted to this thread I see very good people doing their best to get through life the best  they can.  I'm really glad they are all here and contributing! BUT, we should ALL be more careful with our words because words can hurt. Passive-aggressive words can hurt the most. Bob

angeli · Jan 8, 2013

Hi Bob, I do agree that passive aggressive words can hurt.  It seems to me that your post is an excellent example.  I've just been shown that disagreement with powers that be, no matter how much I appreciate them, is followed by smackdown. I still believe that Jack's words were intended maliciously, even if you tell me I'm not allowed to object to that. I came in with a comment to simply try to support a person who I felt was stating an valid point, and being met with a certain amount of hostility and disrespect.  I guess this answers my earlier question about what it up with this place lately.  this is your house.  your rules.  You are usually excellent about listening to an alternative viewpoint. If someone speaks to me in a way that is disrespectful and dismissive, it is not passive-aggressive to call attention or object to that.  It doesn't mean that I'm a terrified, lonely little child, nor that I'm lashing out in fear, anger or resentment. It doesn't mean that I can't see the whole person if I object to the dismissive words.  Maybe I can or maybe not.  All I know is that disrespect, couched eloquently, is still disrespect.  Style is not a substitute for substance.  There have been many many posts where I have appreciated you and many others where I have appreciated Jack as well.  I reserve the right to disagree, and I reserve the right to state my disagreement without being called names. This is usually that point at which I would have thought a private message would have been appropriate.  You chose to post this in the public forum, so I am answering here. EDITED:  Upon reflection, I think it is time I take an extended leave.  I wish y'all the best.  Not all environments have to be right for all people.  no harm.  no foul.  I have a desire not to waste my time with further contention.

Guest · Jan 9, 2013

Cat hater sadists out to kill your cats and walmart parking lots 'full' of people looking to hurt cats 'all night long'... This place, man...  You really meet all sorts.

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 9, 2013

Angeli, in no way do I see in what Bob or Jack wrote as what you are describing. Jack enjoys his unique mind set in his writing style,  at first it drove me crazy because I knew there was way more than just the words Jack writes, now I see them at times as a puzzle waiting to be deciphered. Doesn't bother me in the least....anymore Bob is the forum owner and as such he could be a real dirt bag and just say my way or the highway, but rather in my understanding of his posts is trying to keep the peace which is often trying to dance with two left feet, your post is proof of that. Nothing good comes from flare ups, especially ones over a topic such as this one. I *think* there is way more at the root of this. So let me wrap this up: Jack makes a post about the beginning adventures of road life and his cats, he updates it with posts of his cats getting used to the new way of life, another poster feels Jack is irresponsible for letting his cats roam outside his primary conveyance, Jack responds, I chime in seeing the error of both ways.... another feels Jack is playing word riddles with their head, That poster feels "played" , Bob steps in and says "yup we all have our moments, but we are grown up?" , sometimes, The offended poster responds with a keyboard version of foot stomping, rather than admit much can be lost in forum posting...  Forums are a great tool for communication, we all INCLUDING ME have to suck it up sometimes and let the water roll off your back, this is one battle that does not need to be won!...

dragonflyinthesky · Jan 9, 2013

wtwb  thankyou, amen, hallelujah, enough is enough and pray the river don't rise and kill any cats.

akrvbob · Jan 9, 2013

Angeli, I am so sorry I have offended you, that was never my intent. Nor did I ever interned to scold you or put you down in any way. I am terribly sorry if it came across that way. I do tend to get carried away and have too high an opinion of my own insights. I am very sorry. Bob

Where~the~wind~blows · Jan 9, 2013

dragonflyinthesky said:
wtwb  thankyou, amen, hallelujah, enough is enough and pray the river don't rise and kill any cats.

Oh please not the cats!...lol anyhow let's all just sit back and enjoy our critters tonight, mine will have BBQ sauce on them.... OH heavens I need an intervention!

josephusminimus · Jan 10, 2013

Someone posted somewhere on a thread several days ago [I paraphrase] "If someone says it's hurtful, it's hurtful.  The person who says it doesn't get to say what's hurtful and what isn't." I pondered that a while, shaking my head.  Hurtful's a fairly new word to me.  Sexist has been around longer, but still has the polish on it from the factory.  My thought is that people who use either of the two words apply roughly the same rules of engagement as the person posted about 'hurtful'. Hitting a thumbnail with a hammer is hurtful and everyone can agree to it.  But when words 'hurt' and there's no defining concept established by a consensus of understanding a lot of choices come into the picture.  Choices about whether to be hurt, or offended, or not to be. I'm a 70 year old hermit living in an 1983 RV with three cats and a roof that leaks.  There's no reason whatever that anything I have to say about anything at all should carry enough weight to be described as hurting anyone.  No reason anyone, maybe in the world, ought to be giving enough weight to anything I think to even allow themselves a moment of offense generated by my words. Even my damned cats don't give a crap what I think or say as long as the food keeps coming. But I'll confess that, try as I might, I take no joy in getting all this rancor on my shoes every time I tread on this site.  If I want to walk around in cactus and grassburrs I can do it right outside the RV.

Suanne · Jan 10, 2013

josephusminimus said:
I'm a 70 year old hermit living in an 1983 RV with three cats and a roof that leaks.

Perhaps, in another context, this self-description would lessen the impact of your forum posts.  But, here, among other vehicle dwellers ... and those looking to enter that lifestyle ... you are the voice of experience. You are well-spoken, clever, offer useful information, and sometimes stir the pot. Don't underestimate your impact. Fondly, Suanne

bk2valve · Jan 10, 2013

I'm a 70 year old hermit living in an 1983 RV with three cats and a roof that leaks.  There's no reason whatever that anything I have to say about anything at all should carry enough weight to be described as hurting anyone.  No reason anyone, maybe in the world, ought to be giving enough weight to anything I think to even allow themselves a moment of offense generated by my words.

Jack, I can't help but be chuckling a bit here. Somehow the Andy Griffith character from the 80's tv show "Matlock" keeps popping into my mind when I read stuff you post...... Bri

josephusminimus · Jan 10, 2013

Suanne: Mostly inadvertent, though I appreciate the thought. Around the time rock and roll was born I got thrown out of a school dance, accused of doing something called 'the dirty bop'.  Severely admonished to clean up my act.  But I'd never heard of the dirty bop before then.  I was just doing what came naturally.  A local band a short while later singing Rocking Robin altered the lyrics in memory of the event:  "The friendly little raven at the bird band stand, taught'em how to dirty bop, and it was grand." I've spent a lot of my life since then doing the moral equivalent of the dirty bop without being aware I was doing it.  Stepped on the side of the cat litter box a little while ago and spilled it all into my shoe and over the floor.  Found myself doing the dirty bop with a broom, wishing for the first time I ever recall wishing I had a vacuum cleaner. But thanks for the kind words.  I hope it doesn't turn out you were doing the dirty bop, saying it. Bri:  It's a jungle out there.  Been an education, though. J

akrvbob · Jan 11, 2013

Jack wrote:

There's no reason whatever that anything I have to say about anything at all should carry enough weight to be described as hurting anyone.  No reason anyone, maybe in the world, ought to be giving enough weight to anything I think to even allow themselves a moment of offense generated by my words.

In my experience people who say things like that are actually looking for an excuse to say hurtful things and then blame the other person for being hurt. But, I'm sure you don't mean that. I hope not. Bob

The cat's out of the bag

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