The BLM’s “ Blueprint for 21st Century Outdoor Recreation ”

[NctryBen]

So Doug… I saw a proposal from BLM that they want to raise the cost to $600 per year. They are looking for feedback until sometime in October. Out of the Yuma field office. I thought they were talking like $320… but 600? Yikes!
I hope to be around end of November…
Just me… Kira is no more…

 

[maki2]

If you read through that proposed rate hike you should note two very important things. They aim of it is to get rid of the people who do car and van camping while hanging onto people in large RVs.

The second thing is they are justifying the rate increase by comparing the rates the LTVA directly to the rates charged by the RV parks in Quartzsite. Parks which have amenities at individual campsites such as water spigots, electrical hookups and sewer connections,Wi-Fi and often places to fill up with propane too! It was way beyond an apples to oranges comparison in one thing to another. They go on to mention all the pre existing educational programs being offered at the LTVAs. Also taking about shade structures, signage, walking trails, of course the Dance Floor too! lol, those “shade structures” lost their shade cloth several years ago. Some of them still have a metal frame up. The volunteers who used them to keep an eye out to make sure people using the waste water facilities had LTVA stickers now have zero shade to park in. They never were intended to be shade pavilions for the general camping population. I will have a considerably long bullet point letter to write as my public comment.

I suggest this forum gets together and looks at that document point by point to create a real life scenario rebuttal to why the BLM thinks that outrageous price increase deserved is nothing more than total nonsense based on a group of persons who think that persons doing modest needs camping are substandard human “”subculture variants” compared to persons traveling in mega sized RVs. The truth is that those big RVs are creating greater ecological issues and needs for ever greater water supply and sewer resources. They are also the individuals who have more ability to tow onto the LTVAs the off-road toys that tear up the terrain, cause stress to wildlife with the increased noise and closer proximity and air pollution from exhaust fumes.

 

[abnorm]

Hey Ben.......sorry about Kira......She was a good dog

That rate increase Probably wont affect this season..........but YEAH it's a big one

Hi Maki

 

[Markw]

No, the rate increase is does not affect this season (I have already purchased my permit and it was still $180 as of the end of last month).

Also, it's a proposal, not a definite so the cost could be adjusted up or down...or heck it may not even happen at all. So write them, contact them etc and make them aware of your views on the proposal.

 

[DLTooley]

Although there is likely a need for an LTVA fee increase, not this much. I’d like to see budget numbers, plus hearings when users are actually present, December and January.

Also moderators, can you split this off as a separate topic?

 

[abnorm]

Here's a place to discuss the LTVA $ increase proposal.............and so much more ............

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/35a4b7ec64a84113ad60c621cf118919
I spent hours reading on that site and never finished......AZ/BLM sez..... "Show Me the Money"


https://www.blm.gov/announcement/blm-business-plans-modernize-management-arizona-recreation


https://www.blm.gov/sites/default/f...nt for 21st Century Outdoor Recreation508.pdf

In other LTVA/BLM documents I was disturbed to be labeled a.....New Subculture variant of RVers

Suggested by DLToole

 

[Morgana]

What?! You're not a subculture, they're a subculture!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Also moderators, can you split this off as a separate topic?

Done. Abnorm made this new thread for the LTVA fee increases, and I 'assimilated' several relevant posts into this thread. Thanks for the suggestion.

A couple of posts may seem out of sequence, and the post by NctryBen headlines this thread instead of Abnorm's originating post, but it's just the nature of the 'assimilation'.

Carry on.

 

[maki2]

Hey Ben.......sorry about Kira......She was a good dog

That rate increase Probably wont affect this season..........but YEAH it's a big one

Hi Maki

Hi back at ya Abnorm. See you not much later…

 

[maki2]

As to people doing car camping being a NEW variant subculture you have to wonder what age that person who authored and authorized the proposed rate increase is. I was doing “car camping” in the early 1970s and bought my first vehicle, a station wagon to make it easier to sleep in back. I bought my first van for camping in on the early 1980s. Then later always had a truck with a cap. I choose my Honda Element as it was designed to have lay flat seats and no carpet for camping.

The reality is there is no new variant subculture. What is pushing the increase in numbers at the LTVA is that the population explosion of the Baby Boomers have now started retiring so of course there are a lot more people at the LTVAs and a lot more out of touch with basic statistical facts personnel writing proposals at the BLM.

Also factor in things such as cost of fuel and cost of vehicles and insurance and it makes it impractical to buy large RVs for retirement years. Plus they simply do not appeal to many people who were raised with the back to nature and conservation campaigns.

 

[maki2]

I do have to say that the wording “variant subculture” makes me wonder if they had to work hard but not too hard to come up with an alternative to “deviant subculture”. I remember that term being used for hippies in the 60s and 70s.

Do we need a Flower Power peaceful protest to be held outside of the Arizona and Yuma BLM offices? A great media event to draw attention to the BlM trying to punish the baby boomers with huge rate increases at the LTVAs while not making any real improvements?

 

[abnorm]

Change is a coming.......If you look at all the documents and planning and agencies and locations you see a huge BLM "machine" about to explode...........there are also Corporate partnerships in the works.............They smell the BUC$$$$$$

In the case of La Posa the BLM ..........compares the LTVA Fees to that of an in-town RV park ?

At least they have NOT (Yet) suggested Fees on the Dispersed parking areas

 

[maki2]

Change is a coming.......If you look at all the documents and planning and agencies and locations you see a huge BLM "machine" about to explode...........there are also Corporate partnerships in the works.............They smell the BUC$$$$$$

In the case of La Posa the BLM ..........compares the LTVA Fees to that of an in-town RV park ?

At least they have NOT (Yet) suggested Fees on the Dispersed parking areas

By the time they get around to those Dispersed fees I might not be able to do dispersed camping

 

[DLTooley]

There is an online meeting tonight, Wednesday September 11, 6pm mountain time.

https://blm.zoomgov.com/meeting/register/vJItf-qpqT8rE5JEMXYpKlzqtT81ztxiN0o#/registration

 

[maki2]

I do find it interesting that the BLM
Is calling the increase in visitors in the last few years to the LTVA a “a variant subculture”. It literally oks like the persons in charge are simply ignoring a basic fact that has been widely talked about for years “the Baby Boomers” have now reached retirement age and that is the cause of the big bump up in the numbers of people showing up at the LTVAs.

Another fact about the Baby Boomer Generation is we are the generation that has created the big push for smaller and the more fuel efficient vehicles and a reduction in the dependence on fossil fuels. Plus other things such as water conservation, recycling, doing more outdoor activities, etc. we are not a “variant subculture” as far as retirees out camping full time, we are now the “primary culture”. Our ideal vehicles are no longer big, gas guzzling motorhomes with huge waste and water tanks. Our dream vehicles are not large motorhomes, they are the much more modest Vans such as the Sprinters, and other high top vans. Our interest is in solar power, water conservation, composting toilets, and being able to camp without a lot of hookups.

Why the BLM staff is stuck in the era of past demographics and the concepts of people wanting to stay in RV parks is beyond my comprehension as the news stories have for the last decade been full of stories about what will happen when the Baby Boomers retire. That time is here, it is staring them in the face but they seem oblivious and are not responding with any positive changes but instead are fixated on the same models for supporting mega motorhomes they have been using for the last 3 decades basing what is happening in RV parks for justifying fee increases at the LTVAs which are obviously starting to shift away from that model by having a greater occupancy of smaller vehicle choices. They see it happening but are unable to recognize and reconcile their thinking to why there is now a new generational change.

 

[rruff]

I do find it interesting that the BLM
Is calling the increase in visitors in the last few years to the LTVA a “a variant subculture”.

I hope they are talking about all those SxS drivers...

 

[bullfrog !]

I do find it interesting that the BLM
Is calling the increase in visitors in the last few years to the LTVA a “a variant subculture”. It literally oks like the persons in charge are simply ignoring a basic fact that has been widely talked about for years “the Baby Boomers” have now reached retirement age and that is the cause of the big bump up in the numbers of people showing up at the LTVAs.

Another fact about the Baby Boomer Generation is we are the generation that has created the big push for smaller and the more fuel efficient vehicles and a reduction in the dependence on fossil fuels. Plus other things such as water conservation, recycling, doing more outdoor activities, etc. we are not a “variant subculture” as far as retirees out camping full time, we are now the “primary culture”. Our ideal vehicles are no longer big, gas guzzling motorhomes with huge waste and water tanks. Our dream vehicles are not large motorhomes, they are the much more modest Vans such as the Sprinters, and other high top vans. Our interest is in solar power, water conservation, composting toilets, and being able to camp without a lot of hookups.

Why the BLM staff is stuck in the era of past demographics and the concepts of people wanting to stay in RV parks is beyond my comprehension as the news stories have for the last decade been full of stories about what will happen when the Baby Boomers retire. That time is here, it is staring them in the face but they seem oblivious and are not responding with any positive changes but instead are fixated on the same models for supporting mega motorhomes they have been using for the last 3 decades basing what is happening in RV parks for justifying fee increases at the LTVAs which are obviously starting to shift away from that model by having a greater occupancy of smaller vehicle choices. They see it happening but are unable to recognize and reconcile their thinking to why there is now a new generational change.

I think they are farther behind than that! National Parks campgrounds were originally designed to accommodate campers less than 28’ and some still only 19’ to this day!

 

[maki2]

I think they are farther behind than that! National Parks campgrounds were originally designed to accommodate campers less than 28’ and some still only 19’ to this day!

28’ is fine with me

 

[maki2]

I hope they are talking about all those SxS drivers...

It would be great if the LTVA were to charge a very large extra fee for having one of them. That would certainly solve the overcrowding issues as well as increasing the revenue.

Of course it is easy for me to complain about them as I can’t go out and play in them due to my spinal damage. I do not have the internal shock absorbers of healthy disc keeping the bones from impacting on nerves and each other. Sounded like fun but It was pure pain and torture when I was invited and I tried it ! Otherwise I would likely be out there enjoying the adventure begging for rides.

 

[DLTooley]

I do find it interesting that the BLM
Is calling the increase in visitors in the last few years to the LTVA a “a variant subculture”. It literally oks like the persons in charge are simply ignoring a basic fact that has been widely talked about for years “the Baby Boomers” have now reached retirement age and that is the cause of the big bump up in the numbers of people showing up at the LTVAs.

Another fact about the Baby Boomer Generation is we are the generation that has created the big push for smaller and the more fuel efficient vehicles and a reduction in the dependence on fossil fuels. Plus other things such as water conservation, recycling, doing more outdoor activities, etc. we are not a “variant subculture” as far as retirees out camping full time, we are now the “primary culture”. Our ideal vehicles are no longer big, gas guzzling motorhomes with huge waste and water tanks. Our dream vehicles are not large motorhomes, they are the much more modest Vans such as the Sprinters, and other high top vans. Our interest is in solar power, water conservation, composting toilets, and being able to camp without a lot of hookups.

Why the BLM staff is stuck in the era of past demographics and the concepts of people wanting to stay in RV parks is beyond my comprehension as the news stories have for the last decade been full of stories about what will happen when the Baby Boomers retire. That time is here, it is staring them in the face but they seem oblivious and are not responding with any positive changes but instead are fixated on the same models for supporting mega motorhomes they have been using for the last 3 decades basing what is happening in RV parks for justifying fee increases at the LTVAs which are obviously starting to shift away from that model by having a greater occupancy of smaller vehicle choices. They see it happening but are unable to recognize and reconcile their thinking to why there is now a new generational change.

The BLM Yuma office is out of touch and rationalizing bad management with comments like this. And no doubt any objections to their failed authority will be rationalized as harassment, etc.

The whole system is built this way, certainly since 2008 and likely from the GW Bush administration when they started sending Rangers to Langley for terrorism training.