suaoki solar generator

[RossCoe]

Hey guys  .  Thinking about going to the RTR this year, leaving hubby home since he is not into this type of thing and hates camping- even in a trailer   .  So I will be SUV camping as a single female with my poodle Roscoe.

So this is an electrical forum and this is my question.  I started gathering supplies today and thinking what I will need.  I ordered the Suaoki solar generator on Amazon on a lightning sale.  It is the 200 watt model, 20 amp hours lithium ion battery, and has the charge controller built in as well as a pure sign wave inverter.  It charges off of a wall outlet, a car plug, or a solar panel.  All for the grand total of $160 and from what I have read is a decent deal.  I realize it is not a ton of stored power, but should meet my needs for 3 weeks or so for cell phone, tablet, laptop (if I bring it) and e-reader, lights, 12 volt fan, etc.  Maybe even a 12 volt electric blanket for night time.  I also have several small usb power banks for single charges to my electronics, a 10,000 + a 5000 mAmp battery that would need to be charged off of the Suaoki.  This has good reviews on amazon and I have been wanting it for over a year.  The only drawback is you can't use the usb or 110 plugs when it is charging   Just the way it was designed .
   
I have gone thru Hurricane Sandy a few years ago,  and lost power for 3 days then.  We have a big generator to run the fridge and lights, but this little Suaoki would have come in handy.  Also we have some property in SC on the coast and have dealt with Hurricanes Mathew and Irma, so again, this little Suaoki would have come in handy there as well.  

Now the BIG question.  I am looking at solar panels.  I don't want to make a huge investment, but want quality for my money.  I can use a 50 watt or a 100 watt panel with the adaptor pigtail for the mc4 connections.  They will run about the same, the 100 watt a little more, but I want to future proof the usability of them.  Keep in mind not sure how I will mount- the SUV has roof rails, but no cross members.  Also may want to just set out as portable so the 50 watt might be good for that,  except for possibly being stolen.  

Even if hubby gives me a hard time about going to the RTR alone, I know the solar set up will be useful, so I will get the panel anyway.  

A question just popped into my head.  Will I have to keep my usage down to no more than 50% of available power to protect battery life???

Any suggestions or helpful hints will be appreciated.

 

[frater secessus]

I realize it is not a ton of stored power, but should meet my needs for 3 weeks or so for cell phone, tablet, laptop (if I bring it) and e-reader, lights, 12 volt fan, etc.  Maybe even a 12 volt electric blanket for night time. 

If recharged, probably everything but the blanket. Even small 12v heating pads consume 3-4A so a blanket would consume the entire capacity in less than one night.

I can use a 50 watt or a 100 watt panel with the adaptor pigtail for the mc4 connections.  They will run about the same, the 100 watt a little more, but I want to future proof the usability of them.  Keep in mind not sure how I will mount- the SUV has roof rails, but no cross members. 

A 100W panel of common availability (like a renogy poly or mono) would lend itself to recombination with other panels if you expand in the future.

If you post a pic of the roof rails we might be able to suggest mounting options.

A question just popped into my head.  Will I have to keep my usage down to no more than 50% of available power to protect battery life???

Lithium doesn't have that restriction. You can probably run them down until the generator shuts them off to protect the cells. That info might be in the manual.

 

[RossCoe]

If recharged, probably everything but the blanket.  Even small 12v heating pads consume 3-4A so a blanket would consume the entire capacity in less than one night.



A 100W panel of common availability (like a renogy poly or mono) would lend itself to recombination with other panels if you expand in the future.

If you post a pic of the roof rails we might be able to suggest mounting options.  


Lithium doesn't have that restriction.  You can probably run them down until the generator shuts them off to protect the cells.  That info might be in the manual.

When I have time I will post a pic.  Thank you for your suggestions I'll be sure to read that manual cover to cover when I get it!

 

[RVTravel]

Here is the product page.
https://www.suaoki.com/s601.html

 

[tx2sturgis]

I agree with fw, it will probably work for the normal stuff like recharging a phone and laptop or LED lights, but asking it to operate a heated blanket will probably deplete the battery in one night, and the pack wont be able to recover the next day. 

Anything that converts electricity into heat, (blanket, toaster, hair dryer, microwave, skillet, etc,) will kill that thing pretty quick.

As for mounting, you will get much more power produced per day by using them as movable panels, tracking the sun with the panels. Looking over the prices for their panels, it looks like you can get the two 50w panels for less than one 100w panel. (or any aftermarket panels with MC4 connectors)

If you figure in the price of 2 Y-adapters, (parallel)  it comes to about the same amount of money.

Two 50 watt panels would be easier to carry one at a time, could be stored in your SUV much easier when traveling, and can be packed up face-to-face (with a protective pad or sheet) which makes them less susceptible to damage.

Add to this the redundancy that two panels provide, because if that one 100w panel got damaged or failed, you get no solar at all...but with two panels, you at least have some solar input if one panel goes bad.

Just something to consider....

 

[RossCoe]

OK.  Here are pics of the roof rails of my 2014 Honda Pilot.

I could go with the thin flexible panels and use industrial velcro to mount, but they are twice as much as the aluminum framed ones.

 

[wagoneer]

EXPECT TO COMPROMISE on your expectations, think minimalist. Example: i could run a blanket on my current setup but choose down and wool saving the power for more immediate needs. Good luck.

 

[RossCoe]

As for mounting, you will get much more power produced per day by using them as movable panels, tracking the sun with the panels. Looking over the prices for their panels, it looks like you can get the two 50w panels for less than one 100w panels.

Which site were you pricing?  I am seeing the 50 watt and 100 watt almost the same price- maybe 20% more for the 100 watt.
Unless you were looking at the suaoki panels on amazon. I can use any panels as long as they have the mc4 connections.

 

[tx2sturgis]

The Amazon link posted above is where I did that comparison.

If you have other sources with other prices, then just modify the pricing comparisons to suit those prices.

Consumer grade solar panels are just a commodity these days so the prices will fluctuate.

 

[John61CT]

The shore charging on such units is usually pretty anemic, with a bigger-amp charger and direct access to the posts it could easily be recharged from empty in 30-40 minutes.

On 100w of solar in ideal conditions you should be able to refill it to 100% each day, even with concurrent loads. In fact it's an ideal size for putting out in the field with a suitcase panel away from the van, allowing you to park in the shade without running long cables in between.

No idea of course on the efficacy of the built-in solar controller, that would be worth testing against known-good units.

If the storage capacity of this powerpak is actually 20AH (20-hour discharge rate @ the 12V outlet)

then $160 is a decent price, assuming it suits one's needs otherwise.

Or is there a (more reliable) watt-hour spec somewhere? Any link to a replacement battery?

Sorry if all this seems overly skeptical, but just them calling such a product a "generator" when panels aren't included screams scammer to me.

 

[RVTravel]

The odd thing about that battery pack is it is labeled as 20,000 mAh and 200 watt hours. The watt hours seems way high.

The Anker powerhouse is labeled 120,000 mAh and 400 watt hours, which seems accurate-ish.

 

[frater secessus]

OK.  Here are pics of the roof rails of my 2014 Honda Pilot.

How tall is the roofline compared to you?  When you are standing outside does the roof come to your shoulders?  head?  If it's low enough this might be a great opportunity to build in a tilt mount;  the Pilot would face E/W (depending) so that the panel tilted toward the south when propped up.

Or maybe flat-mount flush (or nearly so) with the rack rails so they don't throw shadows on the panel.

It's really not a bad situation for using the bendy panels, particularly if you can unbolt the rails to minimize shadows.

 

[tx2sturgis]

With flexible panels, they come with grommets at all four corners, so you can tie them to the roof racks when dry-camping, using paracord or something similar.

Of course this is not workable during travel but I suspect that the pack will be charged when you leave home, and again when you leave camp, or the pack can be charged from the vehicle during travel.

 

[John61CT]

> it is labeled as 20,000 mAh and 200 watt hours. 200 watt-hours implies 16.7AH (16,666 mAH) @12V, much less at the actual working voltage (assuming it's LFP) of 13+V

And besides voltage, remember the industry standard for deep cycling batts is "at the 20-hour discharge rate". Peukert's Law means drawing at very low amps leads to grossly inflated capacity numbers.


> Anker powerhouse is labeled 120,000 mAh and 400 watt hours

That is obviously not at 12V, rather 3.3V. Quoting at such a silly voltage makes no sense, except to the scammers in the marketing department.

This is why it's mandatory IMO to get links to the replacement battery, or don't buy it.

Otherwise you have to do an actual 20-hour load test, a pretty major PITA for most.

I'm not saying the ridiculous use of "generator", or fraudulent capacity claims, implies anything about component reliability or build quality, but fundamentally this product space is

a battery in a box

and consumers really should be able to find out the energy storage capacity and specific chemistry type of that battery without having to play Sherlock Holmes.

 

[John61CT]

> could go with the thin flexible panels

These last for a much shorter lifespan than rigid framed ones, figure three years average if mounted perfectly so no flexing and decent heat dissipation.

 

[RossCoe]

> it is labeled as 20,000 mAh and 200 watt hours. 200 watt-hours implies 16.7AH (16,666 mAH) @12V, much less at the actual working voltage (assuming it's LFP) of 13+V  

And besides voltage, remember the industry  standard for deep cycling batts is "at the 20-hour discharge rate". Peukert's Law means drawing at very low amps leads to grossly inflated capacity numbers.

 but fundamentally this product space is a battery in a box.

I agree it is a battery in a box, but it has a pure sine wave inverter built in along with a charge controller.  I thought it would do OK and be a better way to go with portability and less investment up front.  It's coming tomorrow, so a done deal for me.  I will be happy to test it for you guys that know all about this stuff.  For me, Bob Well's into to solar using quarters was my education to  solar!!  lol.
Just looking for a reasonably priced method of solar charging.  I could go as low as a 20 watt panel or as high as a 100 watt.  Trying to be cost efficient and dollar wise

 

[tx2sturgis]

RC, I think for your intended use and your stated goals, the unit you are buying will do the job very nicely.

It is after-all, designed for that job.

The battery in that unit will most likely outlast any of us if used sparingly and assuming its charged and discharged in a normal, rational way, and the unit has over-charge and low-voltage protection, which I'm sure it does.

When you get it, do some testing locally, charging it from the car, and using it to charge a phone and a laptop several times. Make sure it works for you...and let us know...

You might even consider a two-part review on this forum under the product reviews. I'm sure others might like to know how it works out at home and in the middle of nowhere!

 

[user 37446]

> could go with the thin flexible panels

These last for a much shorter lifespan than rigid framed ones, figure three years average if mounted perfectly so no flexing and decent heat dissipation.

I agree that while they sound good for the OP's recharging needs, the longevity of flexible panels is not really their selling point... They seem to have a following in the cruiser/boating forums due to weight concerns however reading pages of reviews off Amazon causes me to be suspect of the price difference and longevity over fixed frame panels. There's also the efficiency rating over time, a glass panel seems quite superior from what I've read (guaranteed performance over the years).

I was debating getting either type for my soon to purchase minivan and even though I'd prefer the looks/weight of the flexible type, I am going to go with a 50 watt glass as that has a smaller footprint (than 100 watt) and has a better life, even though a 100 watt glass is cheaper by the watt (due to volume of sales).

The (OP) "everything in a box" Suaoki lithium battery system was a good price for what she got and her expected uses. Primarily it's the compactness, light weight vs. flooded lead acid (FLA) units and the multiple ways to use it and recharge it that give her an advantage over any other type of quasi-UPS source. (For example, his is so small (9.8 x 6.3 x 3.4 inches) that she could take it into a coffeeshop, plug it in and get it a/c recharged quite easily). For some dwellers the "all in one" is certainly worth paying for, especially if you are not a "tinkerer" or have a bit more of a budget and a bit less of a need for amperage.  Just don't try to run a 12v compressor fridg of that unit, it's way too small.

The big brother Suaoki 400 watt Lithium based units with the same built in "pure sine" inverter usually cost over $1 a watt (currently $429) and  does not have a way to replace theLI battery so that makes it an expensive power source. There are some questions as to the quality and size of the PSW inverter and also the power of the built-in a/c recharger. 

There's concerns over the lithium battery management system (BMS) and how well it will balance and protect the cells for overcharging. All these issues are reasons I haven't been willing to purchase one. It's just too soon for me and I'm not an "early adopter" type of guy. Too bad as 400 watts could likely power a CF18 sized 12v fridg, especiallly with regular solar recharging...

Hope that she tells us how it works for her and the minimal dc needs. It sounds like it pretty much exactly what she needed/wanted.

TWIH

 

[John61CT]

> Suaoki 400 watt Lithium based units with the same built in "pure sine" inverter usually cost over $1 a watt (currently $429)

The inverter is just one subcomponent, so its wattage is not to me the basis for apple-to-apple comparisons.

I completely agree that the portability and "no need to figure out the details" all-in-one aspects are fantastic, if at least most of a given unit's components *do* actually meet one's needs.

But in the end, one must figure out those details anyway, in order to actually be sure of it meeting your needs before pulling the trigger. Otherwise a trial and error approach ends up costing more than the van, and you end up with an inefficient hodgepodge of different batts that don't work together.


Most important first question is, what is the storage capacity in standard apples-to-apples AH or wH? Can you answer that for the bigger model you mention?

Then, what specific lithium-ion chemistry is the battery, and will a replacement battery when that wears out, be readily available at a reasonable cost?

How long does it take to fully recharge on shore power? *

Then the inverter specs, what outlet ports are available, etc.

And all that's before overall build quality comes into the discussion, these days even very expensive gear seems designed to be used for a short time then thrown away for the next new shiny toy.

So I'm not saying "DIY is better" in every case, but that is my default stance until I see evidence to the contrary.

_____
* With the built-in charger that's usually a lot longer than anyone would hang out in a coffee shop. Which is ironic since these LIs can usually be safely recharged in 20-40 minutes, if you can get a better charger hooked up direct to the batt inside.

 

[John61CT]

> Too bad as 400 watts could likely power a CF18 sized 12v fridge​, especially with regular solar recharging...

Even the most efficient fridges can easily use 20-40AH per 24 hours depending on conditions.

Again, the inverter wattage is a side issue, the **storage** capacity is the primary raison d'être for these products

Even with LFP, a bank suitable for that use case will barely be as "portable" as the fridge it's powering.

It'll take a healthy fellow with a very strong backpack to go recharging it at Starbucks.