Sometimes owning a new car/van really sucks.

[BigT]

Oh how I miss the days of my old '63 Ford van, my '67 El Camino, or my '63 Beetle.  Heck, even my '97 Civic!
When you wanted to add something to the electrical system, or any other system for that matter, it was a piece of cake!  Everything was out in the open where you could easily get at it.  Well, not anymore.  

Now everything is buried underneath countless plastic shrouds, heat shields, covers, and miles of wire, rubber hoses and metal tubes.  
Most of the time the part you're trying to get at is crammed between the engine block and the firewall, fender-well or manifold. 
And to top it off, it's nearly impossible to find a paperback shop manual.  

All I'm trying to do is access the (+) terminal on my alternator, but without a shop manual to back me up and get specs from, I'm not going to go digging around in there blind, removing all kinds of junk.  

This is what it looks like from above.  The brown thing in the upper-right corner is the (+) terminal.  The black thing above and to the right of it is some sort of plastic cover that completely encircles it.  ( I had to remove a heat shield to get this picture).  


Another angle of the mess I'm dealing with.  Even the alternator is wrapped in a plastic shield.  Just to the left of the black, plastic shield on the left, is the exhaust manifold.  Even if I could reach that black shield, there are countless things in my way, and everything is crammed together tightly.  



From below, there's a steering rack, axle-shaft and cross member in the way.   

Now for the part that keeps this on topic:  If I can find an AGM battery that fits where the OEM battery now resides, probably no bigger than a Group 24/75Ah, I may be able to pull this off without having to pay a mechanic, with all the right tools, hundreds of dollars to tear it apart.  

Question I: Since I'm looking to put a better battery under the hood where it will be vented, is there a better battery design than an AGM that would work as both a starting and deep cycle battery (like the Northstar AGM) that would be happier with 190 Watts of solar in addition to the alternator for charging than an AGM?  

SternWake, who's opinion I value very highly, recommended the NS Group 27 AGM, but it simply won't fit under my hood, not even sideways.  He suggested this, thinking I was going to be cycling the battery very deeply, 7-days a week, away from shore power.  Now it looks like I'm only going to be using it on weekends, for a while at least, so I'm wondering if there's a battery that would be OK with a less-than-ideal charging source like I have in mind? 



Question II: Since the battery will only see uncharged cycling at night, long after the sun has set, and the panel won't do any good anyway, do I really need a solar panel at all?  
In the morning when I want to start the van, the panel will have absorbed exactly ZERO sunlight, creating no power to the battery at all.  
When the van is running and charging off the alternator, I won't need the panel!  :s  

If you think I'm annoying and indecisive, just imagine what it's like inside my head.  

 

[SternWake]

While hooking an auxiliary battery to the alternator(+), instead of the engine battery(+) does have advantages of varying degree depending on vehicle platform, you have to decide if you can actually access the (+) stud to do so, and that appears to be difficult, but I suspect it is under that brown boot in your photos.


As far as a battery which is going to be bat crap crazy happy to be underhood dealing with engine heat, and deeply cycled, and ecstatically  happy with 190 watts , you might as well begin your search for the holy grail instead.

Everything is a compromise.  Just keep repeating that to yourself.  Nothing is going to be perfect, everything is a compromise.  Over and over and maybe you can train your brain to accept it.

And good god man, if you were able to feed Any single battery with both alternator, and 190 watts it will be a much much better treated battery than nearly any deep cycled battery employed by anybody on this site that your quest for another slight improvement is maddening.

So yes your quest for ultimate and  ideal is admirable, it is also pointless and extremely frustrating, as you are talking the difference between a battery which will last 475 cycles to 50%, and one which lasts 500 cycles to 50%, and no Lead acid chemistry battery is going to be markedly better than another.

And in your stated  intended use, 500 cycles would take you 10 years to accomplish, and the battery would have died from old age at that point anyway.

So Poop already, or get off the pot  

You are paralyzing yourself over a few cycles and a few pennies spread out over years.

If you do get a group 24 to fit underhood, and still require 38 amp hours a night from it, you will be cycling it deeper than a larger battery, which will be reducing the overall amount of cycles, and in the long run, save you nothing.

Freakin heck man,  The chances of an AGM venting inside your Van from overcharging is so remote as to be laughable.

You are willing to replace your still functioning  engine starting battery now for an $$$ AGM when this itself is a waste of money.

What is this about, saving money in the long run, or bragging rights?

You already have a 190 watt high voltage  panel. get a MPPT controller for it. Get a Deka intimidator group 31 battery, place it inside the Van, hook the solar to it, and quit freaking out about whether it will be happy or not.  It will meet your needs for a respectable amount of time.  It really is as simple as that.

The happiest lead acid battery is the one kept in a refrigerator fully charged, with a temperature compensated float charger on it, and never ever asked to do anything but sit there in the cold, doing nothing at all.

 

[highdesertranger]

are those southern Californians getting to you again stern. highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

If you think I'm annoying and indecisive, just imagine what it's like inside my head.  

Okay, that's it, I really like you but now you've gone too far, I MUST ban you!!
Bob

 

[BigT]

Not bragging rights.  I just want to make sure what I do is going to work and not be a waste of my time and money.  

I was going to reply to all of your latest comments, but I think instead I'll simply ask a few questions.  

You wrote:

"You already have a 190 watt high voltage panel. get a MPPT controller for it. Get a Deka intimidator group 31 battery, place it inside the Van, hook the solar to it, and quit freaking out about whether it will be happy or not.  It will meet your needs for a respectable amount of time."

Are you saying hook it to solar only, or also to battery power?  If battery power too, what sort of wire should I run between the (+) terminal on the Deka and the (+) terminal on the under-hood battery?  
Also, is the Deka 31 you're referring to an AGM or a Gel Cell/Marine battery?  (I've seen it listed available as either).  

I have a Morningstar 15 Amp MPPT CC that's good for up to 200 Watts of solar and 40' of MC4.  I just need a few fuses and misc. bits.  

I thought (hoped) installing a 24L AGM under the hood, connecting my 190W panel to it, and cycling it less than originally planned (4 - 10 Ah nightly/weekly instead of 38 Ah) would solve a lot of problems.  
My hope was that it would save space inside my tiny van, require the alternator to only charge a single battery, and be easier to connect to the van's charging system.  It would also mean that I could use the van's existing ACC plugs to power things instead of installing a battery box, fuse block and additional ACC plugs.  
That was my hope.  Not perfection, just simplicity and ease of installation and hassle.

But I'll start looking into battery boxes and see if I can find room under the bed for it if you think that would be a better idea.

 

[Oberneldon]

My Prius 12 v battery is stocked with an AGM battery. It has a vent tube as the battery is in the rear passenger compartment.

They apparently sell AGM batteries that the tube can be added but I have not researched it. Here is a link on how to vent an AGM battery. http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...placement.html#/forumsite/20552/topics/302977

Possibly you can add the AGM inside your vehicle & drill a hole through the floor and vent it with the vent tube. Then hook it to your 12 v vehicle to charge & get an appropriate charger to make it happy from time to time as SternWake has so well stated many times
Brent

 

[2TheStreet]

That's why you add solar if you can and create your own electrical system, leave the stock electrical system alone to avoid the gremlins.

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

Well, the name of the thread is "Sometimes owning a new car/van really sucks", and while that may be true, more often owning a new car/van really rocks!  Just saying.

 

[Patrick46]

I miss my old panel truck.

I think there was like 12 feet of wire in the whole rig...plus I could climb right inside the engine well to work on it.

Simplicity at it's best!

 

[Milk Hauler]

This is the way to go. A modern Chevy LS motor in an older car. Only if I had the time, but look at all that space!

 

[BigT]

Well, the name of the thread is "Sometimes owning a new car/van really sucks", and while that may be true, more often owning a new car/van really rocks!  Just saying.

I agree completely.  I was just talking about the lack of space to work under the hood of newer vehicles.  I've had both new and old, and my newer cars have always been 100 times more reliable.