Someone needs to come out with 12v self-contained compressor-based refrideration unit

[debit.servus]

_____The cost of 12v compressor-based chest fridge/freezers is too much for some people. Starting at $450 for a 43 quart model; we need cheaper and good substitute options.

_____Somebody needs to come out with a self-contained, lid-top compressor-based refridgeration unit which installs much like a RV roof vent. Cut a hole in the top or lid of any ice chest, place the unit in to fit and then glue/screw it down to convert any ice chest into a 12v compressor based chest fridge/freezer. No wiring is required other than plugging the 12v cig plug into the 12v outlet. Unit is ready to go after installation, and can immediately cool down the contents of the ice chest using compressor-based refridgeration. Side mountable units would be a great product line as well.

_____A self-contained 12v compressor-based refrideration unit that sits flush on top of any ice chest would be a great option for those who are unable to save enough pennies for a ready-made 12v compressor-based chest fridge/freezer from WHYTNER, ENGEL, or EDGESTAR. Sure it would be less efficient but would give poor bois like me reliable refridgeration until enough money is saved up for the real deal.

_____For the entrepreneurs reading this, here is a product idea that is a viable option for many niche applications; and can be manufactured and marketed at a price that is competitive to other options. You stand to potentially reap millions of dollars if you bring this to market and be a success. To be competitive, the unit would need to be priced at $200 or less, preferably no more than $120 for the smallest/base model; and have the same thermostatic control as what comes standard with 12v compressor-based chest fridge/freezer from WHYTNER, ENGEL, or EDGESTAR. Ideally the unit is user servicable and can be sent in for repair if cost-effective. It would be modeled after RV rooftop A/C units and those top-mounted freezer units used in those bagged ice boxes seen at gas stations.

_____What do you think? If such a product was available at the right price, would you desire it? How would like to choose the size and shape of the fridge/freezer box? What applications could such a unit be used for? What would you use a self-contained 12v compressor-based refrideration unit that sits flush on top of any ice chest or box for? Let us know by posting in this thread.

 

[wagoneer]

Always been a fan of component stereo systems why not a component fridge plug and play.

 

[BradKW]

Vitrifrigo and others already do this...market is creating unconventional shaped cooling in boats, but you could build your own box for anything. http://www.vfamerica.com/eng/coolingunits.html

Of course they might still be out of the range you dream of paying. If so, I believe Bernie Sanders might be willing to help you out with either a cooling subsidy, or perhaps nationalization of corporate interests. Get involved, make it happen.

 

[sushidog]

Here's a thought. Buy a small portable ice maker. Cut a large hole in the bottom of the ice compartment and cut a matching hole in the lid of your ice chest. Remove the hinges so the lid and ice maker can be lifted straight off to avoid spilling any water in the ice maker. Attach the ice maker to the lid (screws, Velcro, etc.) Since the portable icemakers only draw 1.5-2 amps, a small 300-400 watt inverter will be plenty. Not only will you have a refrigerated ice chest, but you will have ice for your drinks too. When the ice melts you can even recycle the water to make more ice cubes! The only down side is needing to keep the water tank full on the ice maker. Of course you could even automate the process using a small 12v pump drawing water from the ice chest drain plug, with a simple aquarium float switch to keep the reservoir on the ice maker full.
A portable ice maker runs round $120. A decent 400 watt inverter is $34 from the inverter store. A cheap 300 watt inverter is only $26 http://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-Power-..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=0JJ460XQ79HHW7G57DJB .

A 12v submersible pump is about $2.50 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DC-12V...269704?hash=item1ea0c4c808:g:320AAOSwHnFVkRtM

A float switch is $1.78 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-Wate...357646?hash=item4876d5a2ce:g:GU4AAOSwECZUnQ-z

Assembling the components and selling a kit (on E-bay?) with instructions to convert the customer's ice chest - priceless! Seriously though, if you assemble such a kit there's a lot of folk here that would love to see it.

You could convert your ice chest to a refrigerated one for about $160 (not including the price of your ice chest, of course.) I might even make one myself.

Chip

 

[highdesertranger]

Brad is right, they are made already. the expensive part or a 12v refer is not the box, it's the refrigeration unit. so you really won't save money going that route. highdesertranger

 

[29chico]

Check out the link below.  Great stuff.  The price will confirm what HDR is saying.

http://www.engelcoolers.com/fridge-freezers/shop-by-fridge-freezer/ice-box-conversions

 

[SoulRaven]

The ice maker idea is a little intriguing if the power figures add up. The biggest problem I see is in how long it takes to make the ice vs. how long it will last. I do know that cubes don't last nearly as long as a big block of ice does.

I have had many types of powered fridges over the years, and in the end I have concluded that a simple ice chest, using block ice, is the simplest, easiest, cheapest, and most reliable way to go.

 

[highdesertranger]

Off Grid wrote,
I have had many types of powered fridges over the years, and in the end I have concluded that a simple ice chest, using block ice, is the simplest, easiest, cheapest, and most reliable way to go.
true, if you are close enough to cheap ice. highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

Another option I use if I need a freezer is dry ice.  It's easiest to buy it already made, and many Baskin & Robbins sell it.

If you're going to be out for an extended time, you can also buy dry ice molds, and then get a tank of carbon dioxide at a welders supply store to make your own whenever you need it.  Then your freezer can make the ice for your ice chest.

I normally go shopping once a week, so I don't need a freezer, but it's nice to have non powered options available if you need them.  Even for people who use powered fridges & freezers, these options can potentially save you some big bucks in spoiled food costs, if something quits working.

 

[highdesertranger]

yeppers I tried the dry ice thingy too. lasted a little longer then regular ice. waaaaay expensive. and most small rural towns don't have a dry ice source. off grid you are in a city most of the time ice is easy to get. I am in the boonies most of the time, ice is not easy to get and not cheap. I try to go at least 3 weeks without resupply. not even dry ice last that long. highdesertranger

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I try to go at least 3 weeks without resupply.  not even dry ice last that long.  highdesertranger

Come on HDR.  Grandpa used to keep water ice all summer in a shed out back   

-- Spiff

 

[highdesertranger]

Grandpa used to keep water ice all summer in a shed out back. yeah dug into the side of the mountain. actually I have tried the bury the ice chest method. it work great but you talk about a big hassle. besides there was no opening that ice chest until you are ready to use the contents. highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

Grandpa used to keep water ice all summer in a shed out back.  yeah dug into the side of the mountain.  actually I have tried the bury the ice chest method.  it work great but you talk about a big hassle.  besides there was no opening that ice chest until you are ready to use the contents.  highdesertranger

Maybe making it difficult to get into it is one of the secrets of it working...

Just curious whether you have tried zeer pots, or evaporative type coolers?

 

[debit.servus]

Vitrifrigo and others already do this...market is creating unconventional shaped cooling in boats, but you could build your own box for anything. http://www.vfamerica.com/eng/coolingunits.html

Of course they might still be out of the range you dream of paying. If so, I believe Bernie Sanders might be willing to help you out with either a cooling subsidy, or perhaps nationalization of corporate interests. Get involved, make it happen.

That is the thing, the self-contained plug and play compressor-based refridgeration unit must be less than half the cost of the smallest ENGEL, EDGESTAR or WHYTNER 12v unit. Quality may have to be cut to make a 12v self-contained compressor-based refrideration unit for a starting price of $120, just like the $68.88 HAIER minifridge and the $130 5000 BTU window air conditioner.

Reliable 12v compressor-based refridgeration shouldn't be out of anyones price range. Look at generators, I dream of the holy HONDA EU2000i genset; but can only afford the cheap, loud 3200W HFT genset. Likewise I could only afford a 120v low-end minifridge as an emergency purchase (like the I-needed-to-save-the-groceries-if-the-fridge-went-bust kind of emergency purchase). If I could come up with the cash if a Craigslist steal came up I would just go for the real deal. And if I had the money for an ENGEL, WHYTNER or EDGESTAR 12v compressor-based chest fridge/freezer unit we wouldn't have this conversation right now.


We don't need the government to subsidize the cost of refridgeration, let the markets do the thinking. We don't need a "Vandweller Assistance" government program to subsidize part of the cost of expensive RV-type systems. We need cheap compressor-based refridgeration for poor bois like me to afford the intial cost of said refridgeration, so we can have 12v compressor-based refridgeration while we save our pennies to buy the durable, long-lasting, and feature-filled $450 43 quart 12v compressor-based chest fridge/freezer or higher model.

Why can't HAIER (with enough demand) order a shipping container of minifridges from China with 12v compressors instead of 110v compressors? There only big fundamental difference between a 120v AC and a 12v DC fridge is the motor attached to the compressor. Off to write to HAIER and possibly the other big box mass market minifridge brands. I advise other mobile dwellers to follow suit.

 

[blars]

There only big fundamental difference between a 120v AC and a 12v DC fridge is the motor attached to the compressor.

Rather than attached, you mean built into. I'm sure if you want to buy a million cheap, unreliable, inefficient 12v refrigerators you can find a manufacturer to do so. Don't expect them to find the market and take the risk for you.

 

[debit.servus]

Rather than attached, you mean built into.  I'm sure if you want to buy a million cheap, unreliable, inefficient 12v refrigerators you can find a manufacturer to do so.  Don't expect them to find the market and take the risk for you.

That's the problem with modern fridges, sealing the motor & compressor together makes it non user-servicable. If they were belt driven motor change would be easy, I guess the reason for this is bonding the motor and compressor togther helps planned obsolesence.

Does it have to be a million fridges? Or could it be a few thousand? We can start a kickstarter campaign to raise the money to order the minimum amount of low end 12v minifridges from a willing manufacturer. Whoever pulls it off is set to make a profit!

If/when the cheap chinese motor goes bust it's cheaper to replace the whole fridge instead of just the compressor. We can't have swappable components or user servicable appliances for a product with planned obsolesence can we?

Really surprised a cottage industry hasn't sprung up that fights planned obsolence, seeing as so many people are now aware that planned obsolense is real. I would like to see companies that refurbish vintage appliances and power tools, and companies that manufactures stuff built to last. I am sure there a lot of people like me who desire the option to buy something that is built for life instead of made to break next year. Yes it will cost multiples more to buy but ownership will be cheaper in the long term.

Here is an example:
50 year 2-slice no-frills toaster cost: $160 Average lifespan 50 years. Cost of ownership per-year for 50 years: $3.20 a year.
Cheap chinese mass market 2-slice no-frills toaster cost: $5 Average lifespan 1.5 years (guessing here, the majority go bust right after the one year mark. While a lucky few last for 15 years and a small percentage break in the first 10 uses) Cost of 33 $5 toasters as to have a working toaster for 50 years: $165 (33 x 5 = 165) Cost of ownership per-year for 50 years: $3.30 a year (plus stressed out mornings, potential home damage, fuel to go to the store to buy a toaster 33 times, time spend acquiring, unboxing, setting up 32 replacement toasters, any ruined toast due to malfunctioning toasters, any stress related to the toaster etc.)

 

[highdesertranger]

this is coming from someone who buys Harbor Freight junk? talk about throw away junk. what is the cost to rape the planet. are we going to factor that in. highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

Why are so many people down on Harbor Freight?  I've got one heck of a lot more worthless junk at high prices from Amazon than I ever have from HF.  I've used and abused many HF items for many years, and they still work just fine.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's the problem with modern fridges, sealing the motor & compressor together makes it non user-servicable. If they were belt driven motor change would be easy, I guess the reason for this is bonding the motor and compressor togther helps planned obsolesence.

The main reason the motor and compressor is sealed together is government mandate.  You get a much better seal with this arrangement (don't loose refrigerant).  As to planned obsolescence: my frig a 1983 Norcold, still running after 33 years.  Norcold really blew it on their planned obsolescence.  The refrigerators that don't last are the cheap 'dorm room' refrigerators.

Does it have to be a million fridges? Or could it be a few thousand? We can start a kickstarter campaign to raise the money to order the minimum amount of low end 12v minifridges from a willing manufacturer. Whoever pulls it off is set to make a profit!

The problem is NRE (non re-occuring engineering) costs.  Since it would be spread over few units it would be a significant cost addition.  Your low cost, cheap, break in a few years refrigerator now become more expensive.

If/when the cheap chinese motor goes bust it's cheaper to replace the whole fridge instead of just the compressor. We can't have swappable components or user servicable appliances for a product with planned obsolesence can we?

Government again; they don't want you mucking around with refrigerant gasses unless you are licensed by them (and paid the appropriate taxes).

Really surprised a cottage industry hasn't sprung up that fights planned obsolence, seeing as so many people are now aware that planned obsolense is real. I would like to see companies that refurbish vintage appliances and power tools, and companies that manufactures stuff built to last.

Companies are out there that do that, you have to do some searching.  It is expensive (labor is expensive).  But for something of sentimental value it might be worth it.

I am sure there a lot of people like me who desire the option to buy something that is built for life instead of made to break next year. Yes it will cost multiples more to buy but ownership will be cheaper in the long term.

So, we come full circle.  Why buy a cheaply made refrigerator that will last maybe 5-7 years when one can buy a well made 12 volt refrigerator that will last 30+ years?

 -- Spiff

 

[wagoneer]

What ever happened to Waeco ???