Solar taking forever to charge batteries, power disappearing

[frater secessus]

IMO the weak link is that controller;  others consider it fine, but monitor its total AH charging output to the bank.

I'd be surprised if the controller was the issue, 'though I'd check the configuration.

I second the opinion to run stuff off 12v when available.  The mention of running a 2000w inverter (!) to charge an electric electric toothbrush (!!) made my eyes bug out.  It may be an anomaly, but suggests other raging inefficiencies may be in play.

 

[frater secessus]

This is incorrect, likely way off base, and confusing to the OP

And bringing up equalization in this context is confusing. It is part of the breaking in process, always done manually, usually using shore power,  but not part of normal automated usage.

Same with voltage disconnect,  let's not muddy the waters,  stick to fixing the OP's problem.

Tracer-style configs enforce some relationships between setpoints, like [font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Vabs < equalization".* [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=small][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]     So [/font][/font][/size]Bardo was saying that some non-Absorption setpoints may need to be raised to allow programming headroom for an increase in Vabs.  



[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]* [size=small][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]or maybe "[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Vabs <=[/font][/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]equalization" , I don't remember off the top of my head.[/font][/font][/font][/size]

 

[John61CT]

BTW, I think the 'gel' setting might be what I referred to as the AGM setting...

GEL is usually lower than AGM I believe

 

[DuneElliot]

Okay, I am even more confused than when I started.

I have read and re-read the manual, and I just don't understand all these terms and meanings so people can tell me what it needs to be until they are blue in the face and I still won't get what I need to do. I don't get what all the min and max voltages and cut-offs etc should actually be and how they affect each other.

I chose series parallel because that's what I thought would be best...not because of some web advice...and I chose it for shading issues, just in case. I can try running in series to see if it makes a difference as I am unlikely to be in shade by choice as we get into fall and winter.

At this point I am just hoping I run into someone around Moab that can give me some hands-on, face-to-face help.

 

[DuneElliot]

BTW I'm not sure why you think the charge controler I have is a bad one...it certainly isn't a cheap one at $250 a unit

 

[highdesertranger]

I think by "bad" they meant not working properly. highdesertranger

 

[rm.w/aview]

At this point I am just hoping I run into someone around Moab that can give me some hands-on, face-to-face help.

Add this to the thread on the Escapees forum, it may be helpful. I've been following along with both of these and believe that you are close to a solution/answer to this issue.

 

[jimindenver]

Jim you want to tell her what's really wrong?


.

What's wrong in your post is the basic understanding or maybe I should say acceptance of the workings of a MPPT controller. I would be willing to hook up the controller to my computer, run a log and produce a graph showing my three 250w panels in series bringing down 105v and less than 10a producing 45a or better to the battery. The issue is you are not willing to hear or accept multiple users trying to explain it to you so I do not see how the effort would be fruitful. You are stuck on the fact that a control program is no longer needed in absorb and float and can not differentiate that from a physical piece of hardware.

I guess the best thing for you to do so that you do not look bad in discussions is to call the manufacture of your MPPT controller and ask them not if MPPT is active in absorb and float, (we already know it is not) but rather is the buck converter is still converting high voltage/low amps to low voltage/ high amps. Maybe you will believe it from them or maybe you deem them unworthy like you have the rest of us trying to tell you the same thing.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Dune, the take away is this:


We, meaning me and possibly a couple of others do not know exactly what is going on, but I suspect your batteries are OK and its the display that is showing you a falsely low percentage. Unlike the percentage readout on your RV for holding tank levels, there are no sensors inside a battery to determine the charge level, in percentage. This percentage has to be derived by measurements and calculations.

If the digital voltage reading of the batteries is always above 12.5 or so, even if the batteries (percentage number) show a low percentage, I dont think any power is 'disappearing' as in something draining them dangerously low.

I think the batteries are charging based on your voltage readings. Are they reaching 100%, hard to say, but probably close enough for the time being.

If you can acquire a digital meter, and use it regularly, it will help you keep an eye on things.

 

[rm.w/aview]

I agree, use the battery voltage soc figure along with the amps that the batts are taking in and disregard the percentage figure until calibrations are made, or disregard it altogether as it can resemble the blinking lights in accuracy. Referring again to the Escapees forum, oldjohnt has a relevant post on your thread concerning this. I agree with Jim as well, your answer is here among these posts, especially when combined with the other forum with very similar responses.

 

[DuneElliot]

What's wrong in your post is the basic understanding or maybe I should say acceptance of the workings of a MPPT controller.  I would be willing to hook up the controller to my computer, run a log and produce a graph showing my three 250w panels in series bringing down 105v and less than 10a producing 45a or better to the battery. The issue is you are not willing to hear or accept multiple users trying to explain it to you so I do not see how the effort would be fruitful. You are stuck on the fact that a control program is no longer needed in absorb and float and can not differentiate that from a physical piece of hardware.

I guess the best thing for you to do so that you do not look bad in discussions is to call the manufacture of your MPPT controller and ask them not if MPPT is active in absorb and float, (we already know it is not) but rather is the buck converter is still converting high voltage/low amps to low voltage/ high amps. Maybe you will believe it from them or maybe you deem them unworthy like you have the rest of us trying to tell you the same thing.

I think that assumption is completely unfair since I have almost zero understanding of what it is people are trying to explain...everyone is saying something different and I'm really freaking confused. Thanks for truly insulting me and making me feel like total crap because I need someone to tell me a 2nd grade level, in 2nd grade language what the hell is actually going on. 

I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about. I am NOT stuck on the idea of the controller or a needed program...I understand that a program is needed to control the flow of current and charge correctly. 

I'm done. I was just looking for some simple advice and I don't understand the advice I got.

 

[DuneElliot]

What I really need is to know, in concise form that is easy to understand, exactly what all the parameters on the controller SHOULD be set at to achieve maximum efficiency for my set up

 

[user 15722]

What I really need is to know, in concise form that is easy to understand, exactly what all the parameters on the controller SHOULD be set at to achieve maximum efficiency for my set up

Of course that is what you would like to know !  

What really has happened, is that description of a problem has been presented to a roundtable discussion.

As participants sort through all the details, spurious solutions tend to crop up !

I would advise Nothing about your perceived problem, yet would suggest you select one, or possibly two of the participants in this roundtable, 
( who are ALL interesting in resolving your problem ),  contacting them by PM and asking which post in this growing selection is best information.

But yes, your inverter is Far too large for what we are aware you are actually using, and it should be OFF unless you are making significant use of it.
As said, you should be using a simple buck converter to charge that toothbrush if not tossing it and spending the $1.19 on a Reach !  

But all that is simply imo and not worthy of reply.   wheels

 

[rm.w/aview]

Sorry that I've partook in you feeling like crap.

 

[DuneElliot]

It was only the post above me that made me feel like crap. Thanks for the apology though. I think part of the problem is that people use various terms and shortened terms assuming I understand what they mean and I don't

I did call Renogy and one of the problems I found was that what I thought were sealed batteries (AGM) should actually be charged under the same parameters as Gel batteries on this system not a sealed LA battery...that is information I didn't know and it was helpful.

 

[~Wes]

Dune,  

jimindenver's post was not directed to you.  He quoted bardo in his reply.  edit, I can see how you may have taken it that way, given that bardo asked "Jim, do you want to tell her what is wrong?"  But, Jim's entire reply was to let bardo know that his info is off base.

I hope you can get the charging issue straightened out.  I do feel your frustration, as most everyone on this thread does.

 

[gapper2]

Dune,
   I believe you misunderstand Jim's post.  I believe that post was directed toward bardo.  I was fooled at first but reread some of the prevous posts.

 

[John61CT]

> people use various terms and shortened terms assuming I understand what they mean and I don't

Part of learning, if google doesn't help then feel free to ask

> I did call Renogy and one of the problems I found was that what I thought were sealed batteries (AGM) should actually be charged under the same parameters as Gel batteries on this system not a sealed LA battery...that is information I didn't know and it was helpful.

there are different sealed batt types, AGM is one, GEL another, very different charging needs.

I doubt if that info is correct, you should get the specs from the manufacturer.

Meantime use 14.3-14.4 for Absorb ("boost") and 13.4 for Float.

Get the Trimetric programming and the solar controller set the same.

 

[tx2sturgis]

> I did call Renogy and one of the problems I found was that what I thought were sealed batteries (AGM) should actually be charged under the same parameters as Gel batteries on this system not a sealed LA battery...that is information I didn't know and it was helpful.

there are different sealed batt types, AGM is one, GEL another, very different charging needs.

I doubt if that info is correct, you should get the specs from the manufacturer.

This is why I posted the GEL=AGM advice.

"Gel" was a legacy term used in the past, and many engineers and marketing types still casually refer to non-flooded, AGM, and so called 'dry' batteries as 'gel' batteries. Sort of like the thread about...threads...( self-tapping vs self-drilling screws)....

In fact, when was the last time you saw anyone using a true 'gel' battery in a system like this? Yet the selection remains so that the charger can be a bit less aggressive with AGM batteries.

 

[DuneElliot]

Dune,  

jimindenver's post was not directed to you.  He quoted bardo in his reply.  edit, I can see how you may have taken it that way, given that bardo asked "Jim, do you want to tell her what is wrong?"  But, Jim's entire reply was to let bardo know that his info is off base.

I hope you can get the charging issue straightened out.  I do feel your frustration, as most everyone on this thread does.

Dune,
   I believe you misunderstand Jim's post.  I believe that post was directed toward bardo.  I was fooled at first but reread some of the prevous posts.

I guess I didn't get that since I didn't see him quote the other guy. Fair enough, then my apologies to jimindenver if that was the case.

> people use various terms and shortened terms assuming I understand what they mean and I don't

Part of learning, if google doesn't help then feel free to ask

> I did call Renogy and one of the problems I found was that what I thought were sealed batteries (AGM) should actually be charged under the same parameters as Gel batteries on this system not a sealed LA battery...that is information I didn't know and it was helpful.

there are different sealed batt types, AGM is one, GEL another, very different charging needs.

I doubt if that info is correct, you should get the specs from the manufacturer.

Meantime use 14.3-14.4 for Absorb ("boost") and 13.4 for Float.

Get the Trimetric programming and the solar controller set the same.

This is why I posted the GEL=AGM advice.

"Gel" was a legacy term used in the past, and many engineers and marketing types still casually refer to non-flooded, AGM, and so called 'dry' batteries as 'gel' batteries. Sort of like the thread about...threads...( self-tapping vs self-drilling screws)....

In fact, when was the last time you saw anyone using a true 'gel' battery in a system like this? Yet the selection remains so that the charger can be a bit less aggressive with AGM batteries.

I guess I didn't understand this. Renogy specifically said that AGM batteries should be charged with the Gel settings as they don't require equalization which is what my controller was doing. I am better informed now. 

I will see how things go now I have changed the settings.