Solar and/or generator and/or batteries

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Okay... so would a small generator recharge them quicker? And if so, with the above scenario, about how long? Again... most days would only be charging phone, running fridge, some laptop usage (which could be a lot if I'm doing genealogy), and the interior lighting. I would not be using anything electric to cook with on a daily basis, I have a camp stove.
 
You are talking some pretty low power usage as long as you are using LED lights and your laptop is not a pig. 200w of solar should do you well in normal situations. In this case generator with a charger would be used to do bulk of the charging early and allow the solar to finish when needed.
 
The small generators from Honda and Yamaha have so-called 12 volt battery charging ports.  I call them so-called because the output is limited to 8 amps, which is really only like a trickle charger.  But if you use the generator to power a real battery charger or converter, then yes, it will recharge the batteries MUCH faster than trying to do so with your engine alternator.

Honestly, for what you've described, I would consider getting a generator and only running it on cooking days, to directly power the microwave, crock pot, juicer, et al.  This will save you from the expense of buying a big (expensive!) inverter to try to run them off your batteries.  You might still need a small inverter to power some loads like your laptop, if you can't find a 12 volt dc power supply for it.

If you're not trying to use your batteries for cooking, you can probably get by quite easily with just solar, or solar + engine alternator.
 
Fabulous! Fabulous!! Thank you all so much. I have a much better understanding of the power equation! Using the generator directly is brilliant! Inverter or 12V power cord for laptop, check. Having to cook and then drive around for 8 hours was never gonna work! I've added a couple of items to my "must have" list, but it is what it is!!!
 
John, I checked out your thread on the DC only generator! Very cool idea (lots of info there way too complicated for me and my needs!) I would have to buy one already ready to go. I have a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas and very little knowledge in just one! I'm very good at the big picture but suck with the details!! What am I pretty good at, mostly, is talking to folks who are very smart in one area! I glean enough information to be dangerous left alone, but it usually keeps me from getting screwed over too much! The exchange of ideas in that (and most) thread is the really, really, really cool part! Thanks!
 
AbuelaLoca said:
John, I checked out your thread on the DC only generator! Very cool idea (lots of info there way too complicated for me and my needs!) I would have to buy one already ready to go. I have a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas and very little knowledge in just one! I'm very good at the big picture but suck with the details!! What am I pretty good at, mostly, is talking to folks who are very smart in one area! I glean enough information to be dangerous left alone, but it usually keeps me from getting screwed over too much! The exchange of ideas in that (and most) thread is the really, really, really cool part! Thanks!

You can buy a dc only generator but they cost $1700
ALTEN Gas Powered Battery Chargers & DC Generators:
 
If I were you I would get solar and batteries and add other things later if needed
 
AbuelaLoca said:
What I'm not quite wrapping my head around is the "generator" part of the power equation. When I think of generator, I imagine this big machine, powered by a gas/oil mixture, that sounds like a jack hammer... So, if I'm going to get solar and hook it up to batteries that weigh a ton, do I have to have this generator, and where the heck does one store it if required? Is a generator used in place of batteries? (I don't really think it is, but...) I've watched a couple of videos (okay a hundred videos) on setting up a solar system to batteries, but none have shown a generator as well.

Just thought of this too... where does an inverter fit in. I have traveled in a semi and we had a power inverter that plugged into the cigarette lighter, but the truck was very rarely ever shut off.

I'm going to have to go big on solar and I'm planning that! I do not have any health related machinery such as CPAP, or oxygen or anything that would require power 24/7. I will want a blender and crock pot (or instant pot) for sure, and maybe, just maybe a juicer. It seems the juicer might be a power hog like a microwave, though, so I could live without it.

Good answers so far. I am merely adding my twist on the theme. First, I contend a generator is not necessarily required. Of course, this depends on one's energy requirements. A properly designed rig that is conservative has minimal requirements that can be met with solar and battery storage. The vehicle alternator can be used to bulk charge the battery system if necessary. You really can't have too much solar capacity. So, one might mount panels and even keep a smaller portable system that can be deployed while boondocking. Good news is solar panels are surprisingly affordable. Batteries not so much. Hence, a good practice is to use a fairly modest battery system and take care to not discharge the battery over night. A relatively large array will ensure the battery is fully charged daily. On that note, a useful practice is known as "opportunity loading". A conventional lead acid battery can be charged fairly quickly when it is at a low state of charge (called "bulk charging"). However, the rate of charge must be slowed as the state of charge reaches around 80% full or higher. Hence, charge controllers will taper off the charge rate at this point. So, a lot of the potential production from solar panels will not be realized when the battery is at a high state of charge. So, take the "opportunity" and put additional "loads" on the system at this time. For example, a crock pot is a perfect opportunity load. Basically, break out the higher power items when the solar is producing, but reserve the battery for using low power items. The principle is simple: make hay while the sun is shining.

On inverters, these use a DC input to produce an AC output (like house electricity). It's possible to go 100% DC, but the vast majority of electrical devices require AC. Hence, an inverter is useful. If you want details I can provide, but inverters should be confined to a separate discussion. A GENERATOR is generally used to provide AC power at a high output. For example, they are often used during RV boondocking to power the air conditioner. Generators also should be confined to a separate discussion.

Bottom line is IF you can parse your electricity down to very low levels, then solar will meet your needs. You can get by without an inverter, but this will require some imagination and/or doing without some conveniences because so many appliances require AC power.
 
But first we have to find you a dwelling you can be happy with.   :D

Let us know when you are ready to buy, and a budget.  (Offer is there)
 
AbuelaLoca said:
I *think* that's my plan  :D

When I said that I was assuming you will be camping in Arizona,  Florida or some other 
place that has decent weather , LOL 
I live in Iowa and so I did the opposite  , I went with a
generator and batteries and maybe will add some solar later.
 
mariasman said:
However, the rate of charge must be slowed as the state of charge reaches around 80% full or higher. Hence, charge controllers will taper off the charge rate at this point.

I have to take exception only with the wording on this, and then will stray.  Semantics. forgive me.

Charge controllers do in fact taper the charge rate when absorption voltage has been attained, but they do this by not allowing voltage to exceed a preset limit.  The battery then accepts what it needs at the voltage allowed by the charging source, so it is the battery which is really limiting the rate at which it is being charged, the controller is limiting the voltage.   

Battery voltage in regular usages, should not be allowed to exceed a certain level.  Lets say 14.8v at 77F

So the solar controller/charging source allows upto 14.8v, and then says no more, and enters the constant voltage stage.  The absorption stage. It basically starts throttling amperage to limit and hold this voltage.

It only allows enough amperage to pass to maintain that 14.8v.  Any more amps and voltage would have to rise.  Any less amperage and it could not maintain that voltage.  The absorption stage cannot be sped up, except with higher voltages, and safely one should not allow higher voltages (electrical pressure)

The amperage required to hold battery at absorption voltage, tapers downwards as time goes on.
how quickly this tapers is determined by the battery(s) themselves. the controller is simply throttling amperage to ensure voltage does not keep rising.

The battery itself dictates how much amperage it requires to be brought upto or held at  and absorption of 14.X volts.

Yes there is some solar excess wattage going to waste in the later parts of the  time consuming Absorption stage. 80% charged to 100% charged cannot be safely accomplished in less than 3.5 hours, and usually this is longer.

This freaks some people out.  Such people can turn on other loads, or turn up the  compressor fridge, charge laptops other devices, divert some solar wattage/ excess amperage available, to the engine battery, or just not worry about it, as long as the sun is high enough to maintain absorption voltage for a as long as the battery requires to reach 100% all is well.

Those turning on loads need to ensure the solar can still maintian absorption voltage.  If the additional load drops voltage to 14.2 from 14.8v, then the load is too high.  Wait a little longer.  Let the battery stay at 14.8v.

Any Charging source, whether it be a solar or an alternator or a smart charger, is basically controlled by a voltage regulator, not an amperage regulator. These will have a maximum available amperage they can employ to get a battery to the preprogrammed voltage limit.  With solar this amperage limit is the amount of solar wattage and Sunlight intensity at that moment. With an Alternator it is dependent on how fast it is spinning. With a plug in charging source it is limited by the maximum output of the charger and if a variable charge rate charger, by the rate chosen.

The battery accepts what it wants, what it can at the voltage allowed.  In the bulk phase the charging source is allowing everything it can to pass, as it wants to get the battery to the absorption voltage.   Voltage limitations generally only begin in the mid 14v range.  Too many charging sources are timid, and do not allow absorption voltage to be held for long enough.  Good charging sources allow the user to program how high absorption voltage is, AND how long absorption voltage is to be held.  Good users determine how long absorption voltage should be held in their usage pattern. Ideal absorption voltage is also dependent on battery temperature.  The best charge controllers have battery temperature sensors.

The difference in battery longevity/ total cycles accumulated before battery failure, on a battery that reaches 100% daily, and one that reaches 95% daily, is about 50%.

Any charging source. whether it is Solar, plug in charger, or alternator, has a voltage limiter on it, and almost all of these will drop that voltage prematurely, leading to a premature demise of the battery.

As one cannot easily see the premature degradation happening without tools and experience and the interest to do so, most have no idea that absorption voltage is not being held long enough.

The charging source flashing a green light and dropping to "float' mode/stage does not mean the battery is full.  It only means the charging source held absorption voltage as long as it was programmed to do so.  Whether this time was long enough, can only be determined by a human with the tools and desires and knowledge to verify it.

Unless absorption voltage and its duration can be changed and adjusted by the end user, 95% of the time the  charging source will get it wrong, and undercharge the battery.  This is more and more true on deeply cycled batteries.  The deeper the discharge the longer the absorption voltage should be held.

As the batteries age the time it should be held increases too.

It is not as if the batteries will instantly die if 'IDEAL" absorption voltage is not achieved and held long enough.  They will simply degrade faster.  One need not obsess over Ideal, but one should be aware of what Ideal would be if one wanted to achieve it.

Achieving it requires time and effort expended occasionally, with the right measuring tools and knowledge.

Is it worth it, or is it simply easier to replace the batteries more often?

That is where the variables lie.

But unless one has the tools temperment and knowledge to know for sure, one does not know that their voltage controllers are properly doing their job, and should not make claims of my batteries are full by 12:30 every  sunny day.  Verify it before making that claim. 
 An overwhelming percentage of users would find their claim to be false, and to a huge degree if they employed a hydrometer, or an Ammeter in addition to theat voltmeter.

But there is certainly bliss in ignorance, or simply not caring.

And of course having the money to simply replace batteries more often.
 
@ Stern
SternWake wrote
"The absorption stage cannot be sped up, except with higher voltages , and safely one should not allow higher voltages (electrical pressure)
How do you know when it's not safe to go over 14.8 volts ?
Let's say your equilizing , your gonna have to go over 14.8 volts?
Thanks
 
equalization voltage should not be initiated until after the battery is otherwise 'fully charged'

That 14.8 volts also assumes a 77F battery temperature, as all voltage recomendations are.

Colder requires high voltages, hotter requires lesser voltages.

Do not push a battery past 14.8 volts until it is fully charged, or very nearly so.

MS, your case is kind of different with your generator charging and intentional lack of 100% recharges and expected short battery life.

If you can get 10 more amps into the batteries by choosing 15.2 volts, then do so. If it is only 2 more amps then do not bother.

The Ammeter should be your best friend. watch it when you twist the voltmeter when batteries are up in the 14.4+ range. You could likely ekk out a few dozen more cycles before the capacity declines to the point they cannot meet your needs by allowing higher voltages.

Those with solar and the time to reach full, would be punishing their batteries for no reason utilizing this higher voltage strategy
 
GotSmart said:
But first we have to find you a dwelling you can be happy with.   :D

Let us know when you are ready to buy, and a budget.  (Offer is there)

Oh Mr. Smart... you'll be so sorry you offered. Ha!  :p
 
Mobilesport said:
When I said that I was assuming you will be camping in Arizona,  Florida or some other 
place that has decent weather , LOL 
I live in Iowa and so I did the opposite  , I went with a
generator and batteries and maybe will add some solar later.

I feel like the south is definitely calling my name! I haven't been to the northwest yet, though, so I'll probably spend a summer heading that way, maybe even all the way to Alaska... it'll be wonderful to have that option!!! I don't think I'll want to stick around Missouri after Thanksgiving of any year!
 
SternWake said:
But unless one has the tools temperment and knowledge to know for sure, one does not know that their voltage controllers are properly doing their job, and should not make claims of my batteries are full by 12:30 every  sunny day.  Verify it before making that claim. 
 An overwhelming percentage of users would find their claim to be false, and to a huge degree if they employed a hydrometer, or an Ammeter in addition to theat voltmeter.

But there is certainly bliss in ignorance, or simply not caring.

And of course having the money to simply replace batteries more often.

Yes... so... I've been reading up about those LiFePO4 batteries and they sound like less stress for those of us who are not so mechanically inclined. I know they're more expensive, but price aside, would they be smarter for me??
 
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