Solar and/or generator and/or batteries

[AbuelaLoca]

Okay... this is my first question to all you fabulous forum members. I'm not asking how much solar I need, that will come later (  ) but I don't quite understand the set up...

What I'm not quite wrapping my head around is the "generator" part of the power equation. When I think of generator, I imagine this big machine, powered by a gas/oil mixture, that sounds like a jack hammer... So, if I'm going to get solar and hook it up to batteries that weigh a ton, do I have to have this generator, and where the heck does one store it if required? Is a generator used in place of batteries? (I don't really think it is, but...) I've watched a couple of videos (okay a hundred videos) on setting up a solar system to batteries, but none have shown a generator as well.

Just thought of this too... where does an inverter fit in. I have traveled in a semi and we had a power inverter that plugged into the cigarette lighter, but the truck was very rarely ever shut off.

I'm going to have to go big on solar and I'm planning that! I do not have any health related machinery such as CPAP, or oxygen or anything that would require power 24/7. I will want a blender and crock pot (or instant pot) for sure, and maybe, just maybe a juicer. It seems the juicer might be a power hog like a microwave, though, so I could live without it.

Be warned... if you answer, I will probably just have more questions and require a bit of patience (and that's probably why I'm Loca).

 

[SternWake]

You only need the fossil fueled generator if the Solar and batteries and inverter cannot provide for all your power needs. Or if you need to run an air conditioner all day/night.

A big inverter should be hooked to the house battery bank over thicker cabling.

The crock pot generally consumes a lot of wattage, necessitating more battery and solar.

Its not hard to go without, and then not have to have a generator.

I can't stand listening to them, even the quiet ones.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

It's really pretty simple, conceptually.  You start with fully charged house battery (s).  You take a certain amount of power out of them every 24 hour day.  You must then put that much power back into them every day.  If you have enough solar panels and enough sunshine to do this every day, then you don't need anything else.

If not, then in addition to your solar set up, you will need either a battery charger or an RV converter.  This will enable you to put power back into the house battery by either plugging into the power grid (aka "shore power") or to a generator if you spend a lot of time "boondocking" on land with no way to plug in to shore power.

Oh, and many of us have things wired so our engine alternator can also recharge our house batteries while we are driving.  This is done through a solenoid or a diode type isolator to prevent the engine battery from being discharged along with the house battery when you are stopped.  This can help a lot if you drive every day, but won't be of much use if you sit in one place for weeks at a time.

Finally, an inverter lets you use your house battery - 12 volt dc - to run some items that require 120 volt ac.  Within limits.  And for some large ac items, like, say, an air conditioner, you will need to run a generator or be plugged in to shore power in order to run them.

I've skipped some of the more technical details here . . .

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Thank you, SternWake... so... here's what I "think" you're saying... Solar and batteries (and don't use high wattage appliances) OR a generator (because I could then use high wattage appliances)? I would rather only use solar for the sound issue as well as not having to fill a generator... I am afraid I might have issues in the summer if it's too hot because I would not be able to get proper sleep, but I'm sure there's probably another solution I've not read about yet (a bowl of ice and a fan were what we used when I was a kid). I have not looked at propane ovens and didn't even know such a thing existed until a few minutes ago, reading in another thread... I would only use appliances one day every week or two as I tend to cook for a day and forage from that for quite some time.

The inverter IS in addition to solar and batteries (I also just figured out what "house battery bank" means)?

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Oh, and many of us have things wired so our engine alternator can also recharge our house batteries while we are driving.  This is done through a solenoid or a diode type isolator to prevent the engine battery from being discharged along with the house battery when you are stopped.  This can help a lot if you drive every day, but won't be of much use if you sit in one place for weeks at a time.

Finally, an inverter lets you use your house battery - 12 volt dc - to run some items that require 120 volt ac.  Within limits.  And for some large ac items, like, say, an air conditioner, you will need to run a generator or be plugged in to shore power in order to run them.

I've skipped some of the more technical details here . . .

You actually did a great job, thank you! I appreciate you skipping the technical details because that's actually where I get overwhelmed. You have, however, thrown in a new term... "converter". But, I'm taking that in context and assuming it's like a battery charger but probably built in somehow...

I'm really not sure whether I'll be driving more or sitting more. I actually love to drive, but I was watching someone's video (probably BeachCricket) who recommended going at a snail's pace, and that made me slow my thoughts down as well LOL I'm sure I'll find a balance. I also plan to live like this until I'm too old to drive anymore and my kids can figure out what to do with me then! That gives me a LOT of years to see all the sights I want to in this great big, beautiful country of ours!

 

[LeeRevell]

Use 12VDC appliances, and you don't need the inverter. That eliminates the inefficiency and losses inherent in changing DC to AC. Saves a little from your batteries.
Do you plan to do more boondocking, on your own? Or do you plan to use more campgrounds with AC power available?

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Use 12VDC appliances, and you don't need the inverter.  That eliminates the inefficiency and losses inherent in changing DC to AC.  Saves a little from your batteries.
Do you plan to do more boondocking, on your own?  Or do you plan to use more campgrounds with AC power available?

I plan on boondocking as much as humanly possible! I will not have much income and probably a minimum emergency fund! I'll be working a 9 to 5 for another year and a half and hopefully not paying rent within 6 months to save as much money as possible for the emergency fund!

 

[LoupGarou]

There's no written rule that says you can't pretend to live the mobile lifestyle while living in a house. Now is a good time to work out your personal processes and learn what works and what doesn't.

If your mobile living vehicle has a 120vac power input, that's where your generator will plug into. It's the substitute for plugging into a power pedestal at a campground.

Listening to a generator is painful if it hunts or surges while running.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

There's no written rule that says you can't pretend to live the mobile lifestyle while living in a house. Now is a good time to work out your personal processes and learn what works and what doesn't.

If your mobile living vehicle has a 120vac power input, that's where your generator will plug into. It's the substitute for plugging into a power pedestal at a campground.

Listening to a generator is painful if it hunts or surges while running.

Thank you! Yes, I am planning to live the mobile lifestyle in my house right now! I'm going to move into one room and see how that goes! I'll only bring in things I cannot possibly live without (said with a southern accent and fanning myself)!  :sleepy:

I don't even like the sound of my furnace right now. Of course, mostly because the bill gets higher with every minute it's running  :dodgy:

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

Some basics.

All systems have loss. That is you will lose power during any and all transmission or conversion.

Systems loss increases with loss. Think about a ball rolling down a hill, it gets faster and faster the longer it rolls.

There are two "kinds" of useful electricity, AC and DC. AC is what you use in your house and DC is all batteries.

An *IN*verter changes electricity from DC to AC. This device consumes electricity in and of itself AND there is loss during the inversion.

A *CON*verter changes electricity from DC to AC. This device consumes electricity in and of itself AND there is loss during the conversion.

Batteries lose power over time even if not in use. Conversely batteries like to be kept active, both discharging power and accepting a charge.

AMP Hours (AH) is a rating of how long a battery can produce current before it is depleted of power. General rule of thumb is that a battery should never be run past 50% depleted.

Running a battery below 50% will damage your battery. It's a total accumulated damage not typically a singular event that will kill a battery.

Letting a depleted battery sit without a charge is bad for the battery.

Sometimes solar isn't enough. Sometimes you will simply have to charge your batteries another way or they will degrade over time. Your options are charge via the engine, charge via generator, or charge via shore power (household AC).

(Since you're living in just the one room may I suggest turning the household furnace to a much lower temp and only heating your room with a room heater, oil or ceramic. It might even be a good time to work on good Buddy Heater habits)

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Sometimes solar isn't enough. Sometimes you will simply have to charge your batteries another way or they will degrade over time. Your options are charge via the engine, charge via generator, or charge via shore power (household AC).

(Since you're living in just the one room may I suggest turning the household furnace to a much lower temp and only heating your room with a room heater, oil or ceramic. It might even be a good time to work on good Buddy Heater habits)

Thank you! You would never believe this, but in another life (the one before kids), I took electronics at DeVry University! I can't remember a darned thing, but I told you that so you would believe I actually understood your explanation!

"Sometimes solar isn't enough." Yes, this is what I fear. However, after really, really thinking about it through this thread, I think I can manage on solar alone. The biggest hit to the house battery would be on my cooking day and that would be right after pulling into the place I plan on staying for a week or so... I doubt that would deplete them to even 50%, but it would be no big deal if it took a whole day to recharge because phone and interior lights take very little... right? Oh crap... what about fridge?

Excellent idea to work on Buddy Heater habits now, too!! I don't own one yet, but that can be fixed in a week or two...

P.S. I always wanted a pair of pajamas like yours!!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

An *IN*verter changes electricity from DC to AC. This device consumes electricity in and of itself AND there is loss during the inversion.

A *CON*verter changes electricity from DC to AC. This device consumes electricity in and of itself AND there is loss during the conversion.

Uhhm, no the CONverter changes AC to DC.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

May I suggest that if you want a good, simple, easy to understand primer on this stuff you go to this site:

[url=http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm]The 12 Volt Side of Life[/url]

 

[AbuelaLoca]

May I suggest that if you want a good, simple, easy to understand primer on this stuff you go to this site:

http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htmThe 12 Volt Side of Life

Most excellent resource, thank you!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

As for the solar power side of things, may I recommend two sites:

A M Solar in Or is a company that sells and installs solar panels specifically for RVs.  (Most solar installers work primarily on buildings.  Vehicle systems have some differences.)  Anyway, their education pages are quite good at explaining the basics of solar for RVs.

http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/



And there is a guy - retired now - who used to do solar installs on RVs.  He is quite scathing on all the mistakes he's seen and all the places that don't do it right.  He rants quite a bit, but I happen to think he's dead right on his observations.  Handy Bob's:

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/

 

[AbuelaLoca]

As for the solar power side of things, may I recommend two sites:

http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/
http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/

Awesomeness! You may have saved me from asking another question!

http://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/edchargecontrollers/

Because I was definitely gonna get to the specifics after I figured out whether I needed a generator or not! Which I don't believe I do.

 

[jimindenver]

Solar is part of a balanced system including knowing your needs, conserving without sacrifice when you can, having enough battery to not just provide for a day but a few days when the sun does not play nice, enough solar to bring them back up when it does shine again and a back up means of charging when it does not play nice for too long.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Solar is part of a balanced system including knowing your needs, conserving without sacrifice when you can, having enough battery to not just provide for a day but a few days when the sun does not play nice, enough solar to bring them back up when it does shine again and a back up means of charging when it does not play nice for too long.

I warned y'all I would probably just keep asking  :huh:

So, instead of a generator, is hooking up to the alternator and driving around for awhile a good back up means? I just assumed I would be charging the house battery that way as I went from camp location to camp location, then using the solar once I was stopped and not going anywhere for awhile... but, if I were to deplete the batteries too much, would driving around work? And if so, say I'm using 200W solar panels with the appropriate golf cart batteries, about how long would I have to drive around? Long enough to just camp in another state? Or just into town and back (maybe an hour or two)?

Thanks, Jim!

 

[GotSmart]

It takes hours to top up a battery.  6 to 8 if seriously depleted.  Sometimes longer.

I have 200W of panels, and I always have plenty of power.  Hooking up to the alternator is a good idea, as long as you can regulate it.  (Switch)

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Unfortunately, the alternator on your engine also monitors your engine starting battery, and the engine control computer (which has pretty much replaced the old separate voltage regulators we used to have) will cut the output back to prevent overcharging and damaging the starting battery.  It can take many hours to get any kind of charge back into the house battery via the alternator, and it may NEVER get back to 100% via the engine alternator.

In the marine world, the engines on cruising boats have TWO alternators, each with their own voltage regulator.  One takes care of the starting battery and one recharges the house bank.  The voltage regulator for the house bank is often a super-trick computerized model ($$$!) with the bulk, absorption, and float stages built in.