Slept in 2006 Dodge Caravan Minivan WITH Diesel Heater - Nearly Froze

[PeterPiper]

Hi,
This is my first post.  I came here because a few days ago I was in the North Georgia Mountains near Helen, GA and temps dropped below freezing.
But even a few days later when it only dropped to 44 degrees at night, I was still freezing.

I have a properly working 5KW Diesel heater that puts out plenty of dry heat, yet I was literally freezing in my 2006 Dodge Caravan and this is why I came to this forum today...to get help answers.  I was not prepared for the inside of my van to be that cold with a 5KW diesel heater going.
It was as if the windows were open, but of course, they were not.

We can rule out the heater.  It pumps out TONS of very hot, dry air.  And I have two others so I can compare it to those.
It was definitely not due to a lack of heating by the diesel heater.

First of all, the upper, ceiling area of the van was quite warm, about 16 inches from the ceiling.....but down on the floor where I slept was 40 degrees or below.   I slept on an inflated air mattress with sheets and comforters.   Maybe I was naive to think the 5KW diesel heater would keep the van warm, or maybe it was just too drafty and/or un-insulated?

The heater was set at 2.4hz and I could have raised the setting higher but I was concerned about running out of diesel fuel overnight.

Im sure that some of you have slept in your van/mini van in colder weather so I'm wondering if you've encountered this and what I should do for next time?

Things I am going to do even with no advice......

1). Make window coverings because all that glass was ice cold and probably absorbed a lot of the heat and transferred it outside?
2). Insulate the floor.  I think the steel floor acted as a freezer because of lack of insulation?
3). Create a divider curtain behind the front seats.
4). Insulate more.  I plan to remove the rear panels and add insulation behind them.

Any additional thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Oh, if you are going to Helen, Georgia be fore warned, there is absolutely ZERO Sprint cellular coverage in that area.
My phone was totally useless until I was about 7 miles out of town.
Fortunately I always carry a backup secondary phone.   TracFone worked just fine.

 

[Scott3569]

Well, I am in the process of building out a DGC 06 model, I have just removed most of the interior in the rear.. There is absolutely no insulation behind your interior.. that I can promise.. there is very little insulation on the floor.. but it is really just a foam pad.. That said, I am slightly surprised your heated did not give you the heat needed. ..I know very little about the the heater you have also.. and I do not plan to use one in my build.. I will find a different solution..

That said,

some window covering would help the most. divider between the front and the rear, I doubt would make much difference, make sure you have the time to remove the rear panels, and do a build.. you can follow my post and see my progress..

 

[highdesertranger]

First thing ditch the air mattress and use a foam mattress. Air mattresses are notoriously cold to sleep on. Yes on covering the windows. added insulation always helps.

However I find it hard to believe that the heater isn't turning that Mini van into a oven. Is the thermostat turning the heater off? Move the thermostat to the coldest place in the van.

Also it's vey hard for us to get a real feel for this without some actual numbers. What is the temp at the ceiling? Floor?

Highdesertranger

 

[RvDreams]

Welcome PeterPiper to the CRVL forums! To help you learn the ins and outs of these forums, this "Tips, Tricks and Rules" post lists some helpful information to get you started.

Most of our rules boil down to two simple over-riding principles: 1) What you post should provide good information (like your introductory post), and 2) Any response to someone else's post should make them feel glad they are part of this forum community.

We look forward to hearing more from you.

 

[highdesertranger]

Oh yeah I almost forgot my heater lecture,

You need to be able to stay warm and comfortable without the heater running while you sleep. Get a good sleeping bag. For me I would never sleep with ANY heater running.

Let me repeat that GET A BETTER SLEEPING BAG.

Highdesertranger

 

[WanderingRose]

I would try to elevate your bed up off the floor.

In addition to a good sleeping bag, microfleece on your entire body makes a huge difference in cold weather.

CuddlDuds are pretty inexpensive at WalMart, and there are tops, bottoms, socks and jackets.

I wouldn’t be without them.

 

[skyl4rk]

Turn the heater off at night, and use enough quilts or sleeping bags to sleep warm.

 

[bullfrog]

First rule is to insure you have a good enough sleeping bag to sleep comfortably through the night without any extra sources of heat. Second insure at least enough water remains unfrozen to keep hydrated. Eating or drinking high energy food just before bed and wearing warm socks and head covering helps. Getting off the floor on a platform or storage containers with a memory foam mattress (no air mattresses) and covering/insulating as much window glass as possible. Cutting down the amount of heated area by hanging wool blankets or building foam insulated walls for a sleeping area works as well. Maintain ventilation but things like window and door seals that are defective can allow a lot of heat to escape. a small fan up high directed at the floor will help if ceiling temps are excessive. Where is your heater located? A 5KW heater on 1/2 is only a 2.5KW heater turn it up use a fan to circulate the heat and carry more fuel!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Oh yeah I almost forgot my heater lecture,

{snip}

GET A BETTER SLEEPING BAG.

I was sure getting worried....I was about to call the super-mods!



I also think that the electronic thermostat has been sensing the warm air...it needs to be a in colder part of the van, far from the heat output of the blower. If this is one of those all-in-one units then the OP may have to build up some kind of fin or box to 'seperate' the air flows.

And here is my standard (and repeating) lecture about cheap chinese bunk heaters: they will all fail, sooner or later, so, carry spare parts, and be prepared with a backup heat source, such as a propane heater or the willingness and ability to idle your main engine all night long. When having to resort to THAT...you didnt listen to HDRs lecture, did you?

 

[IGBT]

We use an electric blanket...they only draw 100 or so watts and don't stay on all the time so you can power one overnight with a modest amount of daytime recharging of your power source.

 

[mattvei]

Basic engineering. Heat rises. If you could put a small fan up top to circulate the heat, could reduce the differential. As Bob says, forget insulating the floor. Get some good down alternative booties to keep your feet warm. Also you need an insulation pad between the floor and your sleeping mat. Backpacker basics.

 

[XERTYX]

Crazy. We're about 40 miles apart at the most and I have the same van. And plan to install a diesel heater.

I'd be very interested to know what model heater, where you installed it, where you installed the fuel tank, what type of battery bank and amount of solar, and if you had the rear or front windows open for fresh air.

It did get pretty dang cold up here the other day. Luckily I'm not in the van ATM.

 

[shadowmoss]

The first part of all the advice is most important.  Get rid of the air mattress.  An air mattress will sleep cold no matter what.  There is physics involved, not just personal opinion.

Second, once you are on some kind of not-air mattress, follow the rest of the advice to be able to stay warm while following HDR's lecture, although since the diesel heater is vented is is safer than most others.

The insulation below me that I use is the cheap blue closed cell foam pads from Walmart.  A couple of them below me, a bit of something to provide more cushioning ( I use a puffy 30 degree sleeping bag from Walmart), and a down comforter on top of me.

 

[PeterPiper]

Crazy. We're about 40 miles apart at the most and I have the same van. And plan to install a diesel heater.

I'd be very interested to know what model heater, where you installed it, where you installed the fuel tank, what type of battery bank and amount of solar, and if you had the rear or front windows open for fresh air.

It did get pretty dang cold up here the other day. Luckily I'm not in the van ATM.

Hello,

Yes indeed.   It was really cold.   "Ice daggers hanging off the gutters in the morning" cold.

My Diesel heater is one of the generic ones off of Amazon.   It works extremely well and I am very happy with it.
The amount of heat it puts out is crazy.   It warms up my 6 x 10 cargo trailer to roasting inside in minutes.
It is an All-In-One unit so the fuel tank is built in.   I set it outside the van at night with only the heat output hose inside the van..
All the exhaust stays outside the vehicle.  No different than running your motor at night to stay warm.
I was running it off of my 50AH backup battery which charges during the day from a 100watt rooftop solar panel.

In all honesty I believe the problem is that the van is just a tin box with no insulation and having the windows uncovered just was too much to keep the van warm inside.   I could feel drafts inside, as if the cold air was coming in even though all windows were closed.
A Dodge Caravan needs a LOT of help to be cold weather ready IMO after this.

For those "afraid" of diesel heaters....please don't be.  They are in wide use and no reported fatalities that I know of.
The way they work all the fumes are outside, exactly like your car's exhaust.
Millions in use in RV's around the world.   You just have to use common sense.
I also have two top brand Carbon Monoxide detectors monitoring the air at all times.
Most hard core campers/RVers I know use them full time.

Of course, to each his own.  ymmv.

 

[PeterPiper]

The first part of all the advice is most important.  Get rid of the air mattress.  An air mattress will sleep cold no matter what.  There is physics involved, not just personal opinion.

Second, once you are on some kind of not-air mattress, follow the rest of the advice to be able to stay warm while following HDR's lecture, although since the diesel heater is vented is is safer than most others.

The insulation below me that I use is the cheap blue closed cell foam pads from Walmart.  A couple of them below me, a bit of something to provide more cushioning ( I use a puffy 30 degree sleeping bag from Walmart), and a down comforter on top of me.

If only there was a way to circulate WARM air inside of it on cold nights......hmmmmm

 

[abnorm]

^^ That's not a "Normal" diesel heater...yours sounds like a tent heater

It's Physics....You can't Heat or Cool a van effectively pushing air thru a single "hose"

 

[highdesertranger]

You're are not listening,

Get rid of the air mattress.
Get a better sleeping bag.

You need to be able to stay warm and comfortable WITHOUT an artificial heat source. PERIOD

You need to do those two things before anything else

Highdesertranger

 

[WanderingRose]

Ditto.

If you have good coverings on your person, a good quality sleeping bag and proper bed platform as described you will cocoon in and be snug and warm as a bug in a rug.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I set it outside the van at night with only the heat output hose inside the van..

All the exhaust stays outside the vehicle. 

This may be part of your problem...the bunk heaters (as they are properly called in the trucking industry) have to pull interior cabin air, which will be fairly warm, over and around the combustion chamber heat exchanger, then push that back into the cabin. (I am NOT referring to combustion air)

If your bunk heater is inhaling COLD exterior air, then trying to warm that by 50-150 degrees and then deliver it thru a cold piece of metal tubing into the van interior...it may be falling short. 

You need to route the interior cabin air into the cabin air intake port on the unit, then route the cabin air output port back into your van. You need TWO hoses, and I would suggest, one of them needs to have a heat resistant insulation on the hot side to reduce heat loss as it returns to the cabin. It would probably help to also install insulation on the cabin air return tube, to help reduce heat loss there also.

 

[bullfrog]

It would really help if you posted some pictures of your heater while using it, also the way the air gets into the van. I can not imagine any heater working well the way you are describing using it.