Rusty transmission cooler line

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SternWake

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Hmm that drip was new, and  a napkin dabbed on asphalt revelaed it was reddish.

Inspect.  See Transmission cooler line has a drip on it about 12 inches from transmission.  Wipe it off, not a natural collection spot,  Hmmmmm, see some rust.  Hook thumbnail under some rust, a chuck comes off, and ATF seeps out .

I've been meaning to replumb my Tx cooler lines adding an externally mounted filter, Guess that day cannot be put off any longer, with a couple additional parts required now.

Check Tx fluid level, right where it should be.  Appears no damage done.

Might want to check yours, and be sure to occassionally  check your parkings spot as you back away for any Shiny spots you can lay claim to which might cost a lot to ignore.
 
Do you plumb your additional TX cooler before or after the one in the radiator?

I'm perusing the options regarding the steel portions of the lines, and where I decide to install the derale remote filter mount.

I am using a Magnefine inline filter currently and will delete it.
It weeps ATF very slowly.
 
the way i did it was transmission out to bottom of rad,top of rad to bottom of cooler,top of cooler to trans in(based on some googling)

on my chevy,the cheapest easiest was u-pull it for lines,but it was middle of winter so i just double clapped where the "professional" radiator guys cut the bottom line
 
radiator cooler first, then aftermarket cooler. I don't know if your interested but stainless lines are available for most vehicles, if the aren't available for yours you could get bulk stainless tubing and make your own. highdesertranger
 
Stainless steel is more difficult to work with.  I couldn't grip it tight enough to flare SS power steering lines.  Required a specialized hydraulic crimper.

 -- Spiff
 
HDR, whats your reason for the additional cooler after the radiator cooler instead of before?


Seems my a-500 uses 11/32 diameter lines, just to be special.

Seems the rust is only in the areas of the pipe directly in the slipstream, the portion that rises to the transmission is nice and clean.

I hose clamped some split hose overnight around the seeping area, no drips this morning.
 
you want it to go though the stock cooler first. this cools the fluid to what the factory wanted then run it through the aftermarket this will cool the fluid even more. the factory cooler runs through the radiator which is about 200 degrees so the trans fluid exiting the factory cooler is never below 200 degrees. if you run it the other way your will never cool the trans fluid below the temp of the water in the radiator. hope that makes sense. highdesertranger
 
It does.
My Dodge's radiator cooler is in the bottom radiator tank, the upper tank receives coolant from 195f thermostat and the bottom tank should be considerably cooler, if it is doing its job.

My FSM says the ideal ATF temperature is 175F. I don't have any data but if it goes through radiator and comes out at 175 F, then through the aftermarket cooler it could drop by X degrees more and thus be at less than an 'ideal ' temperature.

Assuming I am not climbing grades in the west in summer.

I've always viewed the radiator cooler as helping to warm the ATF to the 175f range, and plumbed the additional cooler first, thinking a more reliably 175f fluid would be the outcome in my climate/usage which is mostly short trip driving these days.

Actual data in actual use would be nice to have. Not sure I am willing to go through the effort of acquiring it.
 
your transmission is going to heat the fluid well above 175f. heat is the killer of automatics, I have never heard of over cooling trans fluid. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
your transmission is going to heat the fluid well above 175f.  heat is the killer of automatics,  I have never heard of over cooling trans fluid.  highdesertranger

Excellent point.

I do a lot of short trip driving these days.  Warmer thinner ATF achieved faster might contribute to slightly better fuel economy.

When I climbed underneath yesterday coming back from ocean 1.5 miles away, I doubt transmission was more than 110f.

AUX after radiator certainly would send coolest fluid back to transmission. 

 BUt is that always beneficial to transmission life? I guess it partly depends on the conditions seen/max ATF temperature achieved. IS a cooler than ideal ATF for too long is more detrimental  to transmission, than a few degrees less coming back from the coolers?
 
I cant get the post from ericthe carguy.com re. "Can you overcool a transmission?" To post here... grr.

Basically he answered yes, it will affect shifting if not warm enough, but he gave no "too cold" temps. I dont think I have ever felt a tranny not shift well when cold, even at -30 in Canada.

There's not much on the net' on this topic, its mostly the need for a cooler due to excessive heat.  I'm thinking it wont really matter to your Dodge the way you are usually driving...
All the auxiliary coolers I've ever seen are in front of the rad, yet HDR's comments make sense, but then, you said your 175 degree temp was at the bottom of the rad, I'd think that's ok.  

Yes a temp guage for the tranny is a nice tool to have installed.
 
A book on 4x4s I've got somewhere here also mentioned the possibility of overcooling the tranny fluid in cold climates.  For those climates only, it recommended running the fluid through the aftermarket cooler FIRST, and then through the radiator cooler where it might, if necessary, actually warm the fluid back up a bit if it were too cool.  Everywhere BUT cold climates, it recommended the conventional radiator first, then aftermarket cooler.

Of course, any idiot can write a book, so no guarantee he knows what he's talking about.  But it makes enough sense to me that if I lived in, say, Alaska, I would probably follow his advice.
 
ok if you able to over cool your tranny because of to cold an ambient temp, then it's going to have the same effect on your radiator, your engine is never going to get to operating temp. in this scenario you need a cold weather front. a cold weather front is basically a wind guard over your grill to block air flow over the radiator. but in these situations the ambient temp is below 0f. that's a high latitude winter discussion. it doesn't apply here. highdesertranger
 
Yeah, I dont see Sternwake visiting me up in Edmonton in February at -40. No need for a cooler...

It's good to have a cooler for San Diego for sure, now the correct size could also be in question. I used to buy coolers based on the gvw weight of the vehicle, a "10,000# cooler" or an "14,000# cooler". There's also a couple differing styles of coolers.

This website, transmissionguy.com, has an article entitled: 
[font=Bitter, serif]"Transmission Cooler: The Definitive Guide", with diagrams. Unfortunately he diagram has the cooler out in front of the rad.[/font]
 
Ok, after it will be.


Looking forward to doing it right.  I've got a tube and fin cooler, about 6x10 inches.  Wish I could afford to upgrade at this point.

Always mounted it where it was most convenient to reach and attach and inspect.
 In front of radiator.
 
heatchrt.jpg

http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm



"As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

If you think this is propaganda put forth by the suppliers of ATF to sell more fluid, think again. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association, 90% of ALL transmission failures are caused by overheating. And most of these can be blamed on worn out fluid that should have been replaced."
http://aljetsautomotive.com/transmission-fluid-flush-tips

your engine running temps should be 180-200 so thats as far as your stock in the rad cooler will cool


this is how i have mine and how every one i have ever seen is
014.jpg

trans cooler left,oil cooler right
 
Nice Pix.  I guess there are arugments for physically  mounting Aux coolers either before or behind the radiator.  I am not seeing it being easy to mount mine  behind radiator without makng relief cuts in the fan shroud.


The lines coming out  my transmission are 5/16" diameter.  The 5/16 inch steel brake  line available at Napa Which i have no issues bending up to fit,  is not quite the right length and the threaded coupler  for transmission is not the right size, as it is a brake line.  I have not unthreaded the steel cooler lines from TX, and am not sure of how they seal.



I am NOT going to do the salvage yard shuffle for this part/repair. 
 I am not paying any shop anything for this repair.  so moving on...

I guess there are adapters and I buy long, cut the 5/16 steel brake line  to length , flare it,  hose clamp it.  60Inch 5/16" line is 11$.

Only one line is currently badly rusted and seeping, the other is 90% better with only minor surface rust, but ideally I would replace both. but Ideal likely is not  going to happen.

Another option is cutting the rusty line  a few inches from the  TX  output, where it is not rusty, using a 5/16" compression fitting  with a 2 for 11$  barbed adapter for flex hose like this:

411G49U2rDL.jpg


It says for 5/16 Nylon fuel hose, and i Assume.. that 5/16" ID  transmission cooler hose will fit nice and snug on the barbs.  This assumption thing....opinions?

I would also love to see the compression collett in the above pic, like on the pic below.

Note the local HD has nothing for 5/16 lines/hose  so no cobbling these components together from any local source.

Here is a more expensive option, ~19$, for a single 5/16 compression fitting, but it only has 3/8 barbed fittings:
 
61Vf61pmWIL._SL1500_.jpg


I am setting up a Derale remote transmission filter mount on passenger side frame which is close to radiator cooler output, and where I will set up the lines to Aux TX cooler( 3/8 barbed fittings), then back to the derale filter mount. The DErale mount 1/2 inch NPT as the output, and low and behold 1/2 inch NPT to 5/16 barbed is uncommon enough to be expensive and needs to be ordered. no free shipping and shppping is 50% the part price.

  But I could use a 1/2NPT to 3/8" barbed and run flex line all the way back to the  proposed 5/16 to 3/8 barbed compression coupler near transmission return port.

Some extra hose diameter on a section of plumbing shouldn't hurt.  I'd rather have steel lines in the same position and shape and length as now, but there is this Derale 1/2 inch to 3/8" barbed output to consider.

I could use an Adapter like this
612rfqtN4QL._SL1500_.jpg


but that makes for yet two  more  connections/ failure points, I would prefer to avoid if possible.

My temporary fix is still not leaking ATF. I appear to have some time to sort this out, but the sooner the better.

When I open up system, I will be draining and dropping pan, changing in pan filter and gasket and ~ 5qts of ATF+4.  The pan gasket and filter are a few days away from arriving.

So While flex 3/8  TX oil cooler hose running back to 5/16 transmission compression coupler from remote filter mount is not ideal as long as it is secured properly I am not seeing any red flags, unless it is really unhappy being 1/2 inch from Engine oil pan, and even then i could route it away from that.

But where I would add the 5/16 compression coupler to 3/8 ATF  flex hose is only a few inches from the exhaust Y pipe.  Unideal, but how risky would it be?

Perhaps a double 5/16" compression coupler and keep the flex hose farther away from Y pipe.

Questions....  The Existing TX fitting with 5/16 inch steel tubing.........  not having opened it, and not going to until ready to start and finish project. Would it be possible to buy this 5/16 inch brake line at Napa, remove the provided threaded connectors, and slide the Current adapter upto the flared portion on the brake line?

2.  Say this works, and i have replicated the bends and length of existing rusted steel lines.  there is no flare at end of cut steel pipe.  Sure flex hose can be slid over and clamped, but should end of this cut steel line be flared to make it more difficult for shose to be slid on/Off and hose clamped?  I do not see the tools I have access to as being able to make a single barbed type of ridge to better secure flex hose.  So flaring this new steel line slightly, just for a ridge  for flex hose, acceptable, or unneeded?

I got a bunch of projects going on and a due by date where I will need to start putting some reliable mileage so am trying to plan the labor around when parts arrive, as I am  replacing ignition compomnents as well as flushing cooling system anbd installing new t stat.

So I am stuck on whether to order the compression couplers and run flex hose in an unideal location, or perhaps get this brake line hose, cut it, slide off provided threaded connectors and hope I can use the  11/16 nut currently holding 5/16 line to TX can be reused on teh Napa brake line.

I have bent up new brake lines before, but only those of certain lengths that napa sells with the threaded connectors already on the line withing the flares.


Here is the current 5/16 steel line where it attached to my transmission:

20170605_112057_zpsvw2tmm3m.jpg



Basically, can I count on being able to slide the Nut above, over Napa's 5/16" steel brake line and  get a good seal?

i don;t want to open it up only to find out I cant, and have to switch course, after a proper cursing fit, tool throwing and $ expenditure and ATF everywhere.
 
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