Public Land Fees Being Raised?

[andi]

I got this by email [a CredoAction petition against fee increases].


I guess these are the details: https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1207/10-24-2017-fee-changes-proposal.htm.

Would this affect anyone boondocking?

 

[Blanch]

It would only affect boondocking in National Parks. Otherwise, no.


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[Van-Tramp]

The NPS needs the funding. We should be all for this.

 

[Almost There]

Campground fees are not included in this proposed increase AFAIK.

It only affects those that don't buy an annual national parks pass and prefer to buy a single time use pass at the gate of a specific National Park.

In some ways I actually can see it being beneficial for people. If the fee for getting in to a National Park is $70.00 and only good for that park for a specific amount of time (Grand Canyon pass is for 4 or 5 days for example), and the annual pass is $80.00 and gives you a whole years pass for gate fees for ALL National Parks, then more people will be more inclined to see more of those parks. 

Boondocking or dispersed camping is not allowed in National Parks, only in National Forests, BLM land etc. which are not affected by the proposed increase.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Most of the popular national parks I'm familiar with don't allow boondocking anyway. They would be raising fees at only 17 parks, and only during a 5-month peak season. I think that sounds pretty good to me. Off seasons and other parks would still be available at the current prices. And if I understand it correctly, the current $80 annual pass would be unchanged. Kinda makes it a no -brainer to buy the annual pass, even more so than now. 

Some selected quotes from the link posted above:

"Under the proposal, peak-season entrance fees would be established at 17 national parks. The peak season for each park would be defined as its busiest contiguous five-month period of visitation."

"The proposed new fee structure would be implemented at Arches, Bryce Canyon, Canyonlands, Denali, Glacier, Grand Canyon, Grand Teton, Olympic, Sequoia & Kings Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, and Zion National Parks with peak season starting on May 1, 2018; in Acadia, Mount Rainier, Rocky Mountain, and Shenandoah National Parks with peak season starting on June 1, 2018; and in Joshua Tree National Park as soon as practicable in 2018."

"During the peak season at each park, the entrance fee would be $70 per private, non-commercial vehicle, $50 per motorcycle, and $30 per person on bike or foot. A park-specific annual pass for any of the 17 parks would be available for $75."

"The cost of the annual America the Beautiful- The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass, which provides entrance to all federal lands, including parks for a one-year period, would remain $80. Entrance fees are not charged to visitors under 16 years of age or holders of Senior, Military, Access, Volunteer, or Every Kid in a Park (EKIP) passes. The majority of national parks will remain free to enter; only 118 of 417 park sites charge an entrance fee, and the current proposal only raises fees at 17 fee-charging parks."

 

[Thirsty Boots Nomad]

The NPS needs the funding. We should be all for this.

I'm all for the funding; ... BUT it's my understanding that the system for income generated already puts the money into a general fund that gets divvied up between the NPS and several other agencies so my "problem" with an increase is, more money coming in for them but potentially not much more money getting directed toward the NPS ... (and that's as political as I want to get today)

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

One more quote from that link:

"If implemented, estimates suggest that the peak-season price structure could increase national park revenue by $70 million per year. That is a 34 percent increase over the $200 million collected in Fiscal Year 2016. Under the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, 80% of an entrance fee remains in the park where it is collected. The other 20% is spent on projects in other national parks."

I can't speak to what's happening with the current funding. But it sounds like this additional funding, if approved, will stay within the parks.

 

[Almost There]

The question then is:

Where/how does the money that comes in from annual park pass purchases get distributed?

 

[highdesertranger]

as far as I know Death Valley still allows boondocking. as for the raising of the fees I am biting my tongue on that one. highdesertranger

 

[bullfrog]

Sadly the National Parks fees are high enough already they just don't collect them because they don't have the money budgeted to hire the people to collect them. Most gates are not manned 24 hours a day and the government contracted self service machines seldom work and are based on the honor system, in fact with no one at the gate passes are almost never checked as the LEs are also short staffed or not encouraged to use their time checking passes when they could be giving higher priced tickets for more serious offences.

 

[jonsun]

What percent of the fed budget does the NPS get now?

 

[sushidog]

Campground fees are not included in this proposed increase AFAIK.

It only affects those that don't buy an annual national parks pass and prefer to buy a single time use pass at the gate of a specific National Park.

In some ways I actually can see it being beneficial for people. If the fee for getting in to a National Park is $70.00 and only good for that park for a specific amount of time (Grand Canyon pass is for 4 or 5 days for example), and the annual pass is $80.00 and gives you a whole years pass for gate fees for ALL National Parks, then more people will be more inclined to see more of those parks. 

Boondocking or dispersed camping is not allowed in National Parks, only in National Forests, BLM land etc. which are not affected by the proposed increase.

Dispersed camping is allowed at Big Bend. I've done it. It requires a $12/night back country camping permit ($6 with senior access pass), available at the ranger's station at Panther's Junction.

http://roadslesstraveled.us/boondocking-at-big-bend-national-park-cheap-scenic-rv-camping/

Chip

 

[Almost There]

Big Bend isn't included in the proposal. There's only 17 of the National Parks that are affected. It's the ones that are the most highly used like Yellowstone, Grand Canyon etc.

 

[DLTooley]

I am suspicious given larger trends. Backcountry permits require you to sleep outside your vehicle but that distance might only be a couple hundred yards. Ask.

 

[Dutch Marc]

Hi Guys, as newby I am wondering what the "The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass Series" includes ? I normally purchase these passes when staying or visiting NP, don't know how they relate to BLM land etc.

Since I am planning on attending the 2K18 RTR, I understand that I need to get a 14 day permit. This would cost me $14.

I haven't camped to much on BLM land and wonder if there is always a Pass and/or Fee involved with this.

Does the "The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass Series" included camping fees for all BLM land etc?

If this is the case I will purchase a "The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass" before my RTR visit.

Looking forward to your experience and feedback/input ..

Grtx Dutch Marc

 

[rvwandering]

The website doesn't do a very good job of explaining but try this link - https://store.usgs.gov/faq#General-Information

   Here are the agencies that accept the pass. The National Park Service includes National Parks, National Monuments, and National Historic Sites
 

• Bureau of Land Management (BLM) http://www.blm.gov
• Bureau of Reclamation (Reclamation) http://www.usbr.gov
• Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) http://www.fws.gov
• USDA Forest Service (USDA FS) http://www.fs.fed.us
• National Park Service (NPS) http://www.nps.gov
• US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) http://www.usace.army.mil

  You DO NOT have to pay anything to camp for two weeks at the RTR.  If you want to camp at the long term sites which have dump stations and water, and sometimes vault toilets, you can buy a seasonal pass or a two week pass. https://www.blm.gov/visit/la-posa-long-term-visitor-area

   Boondocking on BLM land is almost always free. There are a few exceptions mostly in very popular areas in Arizona and California.

  Any of the National Park passes will get you free admission to all of the sites listed above. If you plan to visit more than one site it's almost always better to buy a yearly pass. ( some are free or very cheap so check first) If you are over 62 or disabled and a US citizen it's almost always better to get a lifetime pass. These passes will get you half price camping at most federal campgrounds. 

• Annual Pass ($80.00 - anyone 16 years and older can purchase)
• Lifetime Senior Pass ($80.00 - valid for the lifetime of the pass owner; must be 62+ older, U.S. citizen, or a permanent resident)
• Annual Senior Pass ($20 - valid for one year from month of purchase; must be 62+ older, U.S. citizen, or a permanent resident)
• Access Pass (Free for lifetime with documentation of permanent disability, U.S. citizens and permanent residents)
• Volunteer Pass (earned with 250+ hours of volunteer service in public lands)
• Hangtags (used as way to display passes at areas without entrance booth staff)
• Annual Decals (for open-top vehicles to display at areas without entrance booth staff).

 

[USExplorer]

They are simply trying to cut back on epidemic overcrowding during the peak season. These parks, with their hotels, restaurants, grocery stores, and even airports, are more like nature resorts than public lands anyway.

 

[wagoneer]

the 14 day BLM costs nothing you sign in with the host at the AMercan flag as you drive in.

 

[curlew]

Gotta happen. Last several times I have camped at National Parks or at hunting camps, there were beer cans and trash everywhere. Pack It In-Pack It Out signs clearly posted. But I guess, despite decades of free public education, a lot of people still can't read. Some people went as far as to bag their trash.  Who did these people think was going to pick up those trash bags? Nobody does! That is what the Pack It Out part means! So animals torn the bags up and spread the trash everywhere.

I am not going to even going to begin to discuss the privies. I take my evening walks with a bag to pick up loose trash, but I am not about to clean up the messes I have seen some people leave in the privies.

So, the parks have a choice. Charge fees so they can hire clean up crews, or close the camping areas. I would rather see fees.